Is the snowmobile industry going into terminal decline?

[Jkinzer]

You taking shots at your little bro?

lol... he just turned 15 so he's safe for a few years

 

[Cyle]

I didn't even bother reading all the thread but here's my opinion. Sled makers are no different then car makers really, they try to make a good product and make money plain and simple. New sleds are stupidly expensive, I have no problem riding a 3-4 year old sled.

Sorry to say but you really seem like your sour about your film not working out well? In my 4 years of sledding i've bought one film, not sure why i'm just not huge on buying them.

I'm 20 i've been riding for 4 years. It's great but as said not cheap, my first sled was $2200 and now next year i'm going to upgrade and probably spend $7000. It's tough to invest that much for how little it is used. I've really been thinking about even taking a year off. Don't get me wrong I love sledding I would ride everyday if I could it's just priorities in life right now like buying a house. I mean, it costs like $500 for a weekend of riding. Plus a good $1000 in maintaince and parts for the year, sometimes a lot more. It really sucks when you spend $500 riding, and then like another $500 fixing your sled after a weekend when that is well over a weeks wages.....My biggest problem is i've been in construction and little to no hours in the winter so I don't want to spend money. Cured that for next year!

Up here, every snowmobile show I go to they keep getting busier each year. The hills get more and more crowded each year. New sleds, boosted ones every year. No shortage of money up here whatsoever. The sport is VERY strong.

My one and only concern with this sport is land closures. Nothing else matters....

 

[Cyle]

It's also not as common to see guys in that age bracket with good work ethics. As you know it takes A LOT of work to afford this sport. Like backcountryislife mentioned earlier, sledding is a crazy expensive hobby compared to ATV's and bikes that these same manufacturers sell for a whole lot less money.

Yep i'm 20, I own my own truck with over 50k invested and a 5k sled. It takes a lot of hard work. But MANY of us earn it, to many people think the young generation is all lazy though....Daddy don't foot no bills here.

 

[JustinB]

Yep i'm 20, I own my own truck with over 50k invested and a 5k sled. It takes a lot of hard work. But MANY of us earn it, to many people think the young generation is all lazy though....Daddy don't foot no bills here.

I feel you guys I'm 24 married at 19 have two kids and I have been footing the bill with out dad since I was 18.Its hard dont get me wrong I have made the choise to put gas in my sled instead of my wifes car But i love this sport its what gets me through so I give up some and I save all summer But I ride all winter. Well as long as I can without injury.

 

[xrated]

I feel you guys I'm 24 married at 19 have two kids and I have been footing the bill with out dad since I was 18.Its hard dont get me wrong I have made the choise to put gas in my sled instead of my wifes car But i love this sport its what gets me through so I give up some and I save all summer But I ride all winter. Well as long as I can without injury.

Why does your wife have a car?

 

[christopher]

yeah i know what your saying there but my comment was towards the youth ages of 18-25... there are is a lot of "youth" around here where daddy still foots the bill

Ahhh.
Sorry.
I gotcha now.

WORK, what a concept!!!

 

[christopher]

It's also not as common to see guys in that age bracket with good work ethics. As you know it takes A LOT of work to afford this sport. Like backcountryislife mentioned earlier, sledding is a crazy expensive hobby compared to ATV's and bikes that these same manufacturers sell for a whole lot less money.

Ain't that a fact though.
A good dirtbike is CHEAP by comparison.

 

[Doc Zoom]

Good post, lots of very valid points! Yeah, this is a very expensive sport and the manufacturers are really tight with their support of the industry.

People have no idea how expensive it is to produce a snowmobile film.
The travel costs, permits, camera equipment, editing suite and software, not to mention the time. I put close to 1000 hours of editing into each "Mountain Mod Mania" movie. Everyone says, "What an awesome job", well yes and no,
I spend the majority of my time away from my family, either out filming, traveling, going to trade shows or at the studio editing. A sled for me is a way to transport my camera gear and myself up the mountain to film everyone else having all the fun. I don't know how many times I have stood out in a blizzard shivering and waiting for the sun to come out, or the rider to come by and asked my self "what the heck am I doing"! But, ya know what...it sure beats being in an office cubicle punching numbers all day!

An A-Star helicopter costs $2300 an hour...guess how many video's need to be sold just for a couple of hours of heli time?

I don't envy the new guys trying to come into the snowmobile film industry, it was tough when I started 8 years ago with about 1/4th as many films.
The market is only so big, and no matter how good your film is, there are only so many buyers.
The manufacturers have really tightened up and its getting harder to get their support each year.
I'm glad I have the momentum and a great customer base to keep producing the "Mountain Mod Mania" series. I love the sport, I love the people and I love entertaining my fans.
Great feedback everyone, really makes ya think!

I'm just wrapping up my other movie called "SideXSide Mania", it's about the baddest UTV's in the world. I filmed Mark Holz winning the Terribles 250 Desert race, the WORCS race in Phoenix, been to Glamis numerous times and filmed in Moab and am just wrapping up the Oregon Dunefest segment.

Trey from MCXpress finally figured it out...he installed a turbo'd Apex motor into a Polaris RZR and I guess it is insane! I plan on building one next year!
Speaking of prices....how can the manufacturer's justify $15,000 for a RZR-S when you can buy a nice new Toyota or Hyundi with air conditioning and windshield wipers for the same money? Where's the value?
I guess as long as the consumer is willing to pay to play they can get away with it.
Enough rambling, got a couple of movies to make!

Doc Zoom

 

[xrated]

Doc you don't have to give exact numbers, but I'm curious and I'm sure others are as well, but how much usually goes into making a film versus what kind of return you see?

 

[jhurkot]

honestly if you love to sled you don't care where the money comes from. i'm very envious of all these younger riders who have a family that loves sledding. in my family nobody but me rides and i am constantly getting negative comments like, "why do you spend all that money to snowmobile? all you do is fix broken parts and freeze your *** off." it's because we love this sport and we don't care about the price tag associated with it. how is it even possible for someone in high school to pay for this sport? even on a hot summer day i can think about all the fun i had even if i was getting towed out at 11am.


jorli thank you for making fourcast it was my favourite sled movie last year and i've got them all.

 

[christopher]

.how can the manufacturer's justify $15,000 for a RZR-S when you can buy a nice new Toyota or Hyundi with air conditioning and windshield wipers for the same money? Where's the value?
I guess as long as the consumer is willing to pay to play they can get away with it.

He he he.
Before I was smitten with sledding, we bought 2 RZR-S for the family.

Summer on the RZRs
Winter on the Nytros

 

[Duke]

Thanks Jorli,
Your opinions are duly noted and I feel as if i'm standing shoulder to shoulder with you in this situation. Since 1998, I have been shooting (ahem, cough.. ) brand specific videos with absolutely no support from manufacturers. If they offer you a " commercial " rate on a sled, it's a joke. Any ski hill or farmer can get the same offer, which is weak at best.
The aftermarket industry has been the only ones to offer any kind of assistance to help a brother out. The cost of making films has gone from hobby to addiction in my case, and I have gone into a financial nightmare because of it. Each year, I spend ( borrow ) enough capitol to buy at least 3 and a half brand new sleds to produce Boost. People ask, why have you been riding the same sled for the past 3 years ? lol, I respond, because I can't seem to get the first one paid off ! sounds funny, but camera equipment, production costs, insurance, and operational costs are sucking me dry.. literally.

I'm so glad you came out with this letter of appeal. A lot of these points are some of which I didn't have the balls to ask year after year. Don't get me 100% wrong, I love to make films, it's a passion, but when will it end ? my kids need to eat and maybe have a secondary education someday, and all I seem to be doing is pizzing it into the wind. Every year I cuss and swear that i'm not going to do this again, and I seem to fall into the same groove time and time again. To who's benefit ??? well, yes, big blue.

I think, since I already have the footage for the 5th season of Boost, most of the legal paperwork is done, and the editors are on schedule, that this will be the last year I dedicate to this film series. The turbo sled will have to go up for sale to pay off a portion of my debt, and I will be looking for either a sponsored sled, or a junkyard beater that will get me up the hill.

It's really a shame. I have looked after so many people and their best interests, with little to no return. I think there have been many that have benefitted from my productions, and that's great for them, but this guy can't do it anymore, I have to start looking out for myself.

You know, it really wouldnt take much. I have seen manufacturers donate twice what I would require as a budget to some off the wall cause.

Maybe I will go film maxi-pad commercials... at least I know those arent going away any time soon.

I wanted to say, Jorli, I feel your frusterations 100%. Your not alone out there. We love this sport so much, and having the talent to portray it in such a beautiful form, but without support, there's a brick wall to firmly place your head against in a forward motion with rigerous return.

peace out.
Veedy.

I cant imagine how many 4 stroke sleds you have sold for Yamaha since you started filming the Boost series. You should be on the Yamaha payroll by now.

 

[MORSNO]

Excellent thread with lots of great posts. Hopefully the economy rebuilds and we all are able to keep riding, introduce new riders, have all 4 major manufacturers still building sleds (where would be without brand bashing our buddies sleds?), and have money to blow on our rides!

 

[roughrider99]

as stated lots of great posts and I think everyone is suffering in some way these days. for the filmers u've been doing such a great job why would the manufactureres start dish cash now? unfortunatley the big companies in a way have everyone by the balls, unless there is a complete stop in videos produced and then sales go down the toilet will they then start stepping up and supporting you guys.

For the other issue stated about younger riders, For younger people this sport makes no sense. all my freinds ride moto, bikes are half the price and there isn;t much travel costs its way easier for parents to spend 2-3k on a little bike to get their kids started. for myself I grew up on the farm so spring summer and fall its work non stop then winter is time to play and my family all rides during the winter, its the only time of year my family can all spend time together so sledding works great for us. when i was younger sledding was free which i was gratefull for. i would always get my dads old sled when he upgraded. where i live its usually a 3-7 hour drive just to go riding anywhere there is good snow. now i'm 20 i've been working multiple jobs during since i was 16 and had my drivers license. if my parents hadn;t had me started in sledding i would not be doing this today. i got my own sled, pay my own bills, paid for my own truck. as an apprentice heavy duty mechanic i took a second year of college training cause a job is damn near impossible to find, also staying in school as mentioned earlier about the lack of 18-25 year olds not in the sport. in our age group to become recognized or pro you need money by the boat loads to throw at people to sponsor you and get in films or do racing, or need to know the right people. I have neither and idea of become a "professional sledder" or ride in the movies is just a big pipe dream. so i will just keep working my balls off so i can finish school build my sled and just do what i do best and go ride. thats my rant

 

[backcountryislife]

how can the manufacturer's justify $15,000 for a RZR-S when you can buy a nice new Toyota or Hyundi with air conditioning and windshield wipers for the same money? Where's the value?

You're being sarcastic right?

Seriously, a RZR that will likely last you for 15+ years, or a sled that costs 85% of that & will likely last 1/5 the time & 1/4 the the miles?

Just a guess, but I'd say in 5 years you'd put 4 times the $$ into repairs on a sled compared to an RZR also!!

 

[summit-x]

no....

 

[Veedy]

A sled for me is a way to transport my camera gear and myself up the mountain to film everyone else having all the fun. I don't know how many times I have stood out in a blizzard shivering and waiting for the sun to come out, or the rider to come by and asked my self "what the heck am I doing"!

Doc Zoom

When is the last time you went sledding and left the camera gear at the truck ? probably the same amount I have.... 45 lbs of equipment on your back boondocking through deep pow in some of the most haneous territory can be challenging on the vertebrae. Just a couple times a year, I would like to ride just for the enjoyment. But then that would probably be the day it turns out to be bluebird and blower pow, and Render crashes in the 90.....

The costs associated with film making snow sports is huge, as is the time away from the family. I would think that a movie ( depending on it's fan base ) would be the best form of advertising for aftermarket and OEM manufacturers. Its funny that their budgets allow full page ad's in the magazines, but they scrimp when it comes to motion pictures.

I have been collecting stock and shooting a ton of dirt bike footage including extreme woods riding, hare scrambles, endurocross, motocross, freestyle and ice racing. I will be producing a film based on a full gamut of riding, which I know will fetch a ton more audience and will sell worldwide. Motorcycling is such a more popular sport than sledding. Also sponsors are already in tune with what and how the process is to get their 2 cents in on the advertising. It's a no brainer. A person needs to learn from their trials and tribulations in the industry and know when to move on and utilize their time, capitol and talents to the best of their advantage.

Also be on the look out for some sweet 2 STROKE, back country shredding footy for next year. I'm shifting gears

peace !

 

[ruffryder]

You're being sarcastic right?

Seriously, a RZR that will likely last you for 15+ years, or a sled that costs 85% of that & will likely last 1/5 the time & 1/4 the the miles?

Just a guess, but I'd say in 5 years you'd put 4 times the $$ into repairs on a sled compared to an RZR also!!

The comparison was RZR to a car, not a snowmobile..

and I am not a democrat, I am an independent..

 

[xrated]

damnit Veedy....now I can't wait for a bike film from you!!!!

 

[Veedy]

damnit Veedy....now I can't wait for a bike film from you!!!!

Haha, thanks. It might be a while, but that's the goal. I have more races to shoot and a lot of work ahead of me, but it's in the works !