Wow ... seems a 40% plus savings in energy to turn the track.
Energy which can now be used to move the sled thru the snow.
Is the Belt drive worth it over the chaincase?
- Thread starter iluv2fly
- Start date
Wow ... seems a 40% plus savings in energy to turn the track.
Energy which can now be used to move the sled thru the snow.
I just demoed the 13 in brick hard snow. I brought my 11 turbo and 12 with a tied clutch and that is it. Both 155's and so was the 13. First time I jumped on it I couldn't tell any difference. I drag raced with my buddy and I beat it by about two lenghts up the hill. He thought he got me out of the hole but we only did it once. They were so close that it could have been who hit the gas first or got better traction quicker. They were fairly even through half the race. I know my 12 runs better than my buddies that are completely stock so if you put a tied on the 13 it should run that much better. I was dying to find the difference that everyone was talking about so I kept switching back and forth about six times. Finally decided that there is a slight difference in tipping it up and maybe holding a sidehill. It isn't a huge difference but the 11-12 were already awesome. I have airframes on mine so the running boards, even though they are awesome, aren't as good. The biggest thing I liked was the seat. The belt drive makes a fair amount of noise. Seems like the belt is too tight. I've had a cmx belt drive without a tensioner and the belt wasn't that tight. That has to eat some power compared to the cmx drive. I even talked to mark about it and he told me his will pull 4 lenghts in a race. I like the thought of it where it is so you don't have to protect it but with the belt that tight I doubt it works as good as marks. He has had a lot of years to perfect it. I would buy the cmx to put on an 11-12 otherwise you are better to upgrade to a 13. I wish they would give a shock upgrade package for snowchecks. That is the biggest thing the pro's are lacking. I've rode the newest cmx and they are awesome. If you want to try something cool, try his new spindles. The steering effort is half or a 1/3. If I could win the lottery. As far as the 13 compared to my 12 with airframes and a tied and only 500 miles I am going to keep it. Selling the 11turbo to get a 13.
My wife thought she could notice the difference easier because she isn't as strong as us. She still wants airframes on the 13. They are better but I didn't think it was enough difference to justify $500. Won't know until you ride the 13 in wetter or stickier snow. Need a different track in the snow we rode in. That is my nickels worth.
My wife thought she could notice the difference easier because she isn't as strong as us. She still wants airframes on the 13. They are better but I didn't think it was enough difference to justify $500. Won't know until you ride the 13 in wetter or stickier snow. Need a different track in the snow we rode in. That is my nickels worth.
So Mark is saying his belt drive alone will pull 4 lengths on a sled everything else equal? That doesn't sound anything close to being right. 4 length is a lot.
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just got back from a demo ride on the 2013 pro, the belt drive made a huge difference in throttle response, it felt way snappier in the bottom end. Not only was that a major upgrade, it handles noticeably better on side-hills and preforming technical maneuvers in the trees due to the new boards and the stiffer chassis!!!
Belt drive make the Pro have better throttle response, I think Polaris is pulling a fast one with their motor for the demo sleds. Lots of guys posting motor seems to pull harder. Sound to me like their secret is getting figured out. Doo used to doo this back in 95. Nice sled and I hope for everyone buying a 2013 has the same performance as the Demo sled.
That is what he is telling me. I can't prove or disprove it. It sounds like a lot. If my buddy would have had his pro there, for the demo, we could have seen how much difference the belt drive and 14 pounds made because his is completely stock. Thought he had a warped rotor but his shaft is screwed up on the very end.
G
gman086
Well-known member
Doo is totally opposite this year. I rode the XM demo today and it was a dog - disappointed with the power. I wasn't the only one, dealer said so too. He'd brought out a '12 XP with the same Etec motor and it was noticeably stronger; glad he brought it for comparison - regained some faith in Rotax after riding it! The XM had been beat on tho and has 1500 HARD miles on it. We also think the timing was being pulled because of poor fuel (has O2 sensor do it advances/retards timing based on fuel quality).
Have FUN!
G MAN
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Re: belt drive efficency
I haven't ridden one yet, but snowchecked a 13. I've built a lot of mountain sleds over the years, and rotating mass plays a huge part in useable hp transfer - the equation (loosely) is 1 lb of rotating mass removed is the performance equivelant of removing 10 lbs of static weight. So although the machine only lost approx 6-7 lbs by going to a belt drive and lighter jackshaft, it takes less power to turn these items (less parsitic load). End result is you have a machine that feels faster, and in fact, will be. The last lightweight drive system I built used aluminum / titanium hybrid jackshafts and driveshafts, a shaved and drilled rotor, and light sprockets and chain (this was what was avail to work with in early 2000). There is a significant difference, similar to putting a P85 on a skidoo. Much lighter clutch = better performance. So is a belt drive more efficient then a chaincase? You bet. If you don't believe that, ask yourself why most racing engines use a minimum of pulleys, and why they are billet aluminum instead of steel...
With the talk of possible motor work being done for the 2013 is it possible this more responsive feeling motor, is just that, an improved motor? I understand that the belt drive would help, but so could engine improvements that have been mentioned elsewhere...
Plainly, at some time you have to see the forrest for the trees and step back from all the details and look at it as a "whole"
The 2013 has benefited from 3+ years of refinement of this chassis and 2+ years of refinements of the 800cc DC-CFi2 motor.
The changes are apparent when riding back to back on previous MY sleds... I've done it and was well impressed.
The '13 is a more evolved sled with some great upgrades. It was a solid performer for me in ways that were "seat of the pants" noticeable... Our group had some great riders like Brandy Floyd, Phatty, Jarred Sessions and other strong riders plus a weak old man (ME). All commented on the fact that this truly is a refined machine.
Would I ditch a 2012 to get a new one??... well that depends on the thickness of your wallet and how many miles you have on your 2011/12 and an honest answer to the question "Do I ride enough?"....
Be well peeps.. enjoy the snow if you got it!!
.
The 2013 has benefited from 3+ years of refinement of this chassis and 2+ years of refinements of the 800cc DC-CFi2 motor.
The changes are apparent when riding back to back on previous MY sleds... I've done it and was well impressed.
The '13 is a more evolved sled with some great upgrades. It was a solid performer for me in ways that were "seat of the pants" noticeable... Our group had some great riders like Brandy Floyd, Phatty, Jarred Sessions and other strong riders plus a weak old man (ME). All commented on the fact that this truly is a refined machine.
Would I ditch a 2012 to get a new one??... well that depends on the thickness of your wallet and how many miles you have on your 2011/12 and an honest answer to the question "Do I ride enough?"....
Be well peeps.. enjoy the snow if you got it!!
.
J
Jaynelson
Well-known member
Is the belt drive worth it?
If you've ever exploded a chaincase out of warranty.....you tell me. Cost to repair compared to simply replacing a belt is notable. Anything that makes a sled simpler, lighter and more efficient is a step in the right direction, even if the results aren't staggering.
Like MH said....it all adds up to a complete package.
If you've ever exploded a chaincase out of warranty.....you tell me. Cost to repair compared to simply replacing a belt is notable. Anything that makes a sled simpler, lighter and more efficient is a step in the right direction, even if the results aren't staggering.
Like MH said....it all adds up to a complete package.
Agreed. Plus when my chain case locked up, I was thrown hard and fast from my sled. It is straight dangerous. Give it three years and every sled built will have a belt drive.
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Hopefully they can get the brake disc mounted on the lower gear sometime. Broken belt = no brakes = soiled bibs. 
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IMHO this only happens when you do not maintenance the chain case. A properly maintained chain case will not explode.
Right... A properly maintained motor never lets loose either. On my sled, the drive shaft bearing let loose. The sled was maintained and fine at the start of the season. 1000 miles later and it let go. It happens. Either way, I can't wait for skidoo to offer a belt drive so it will gain Freds acceptance.
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Chaincase maintenance
I will argue this point, as I've had several sleds with chaincases over the years, and religously change chaincase oil every 300 miles, and remove the cover and inspect the chain twice per season (I usually only get to ride 900-1000 miles). I've had new chains break and take out the case, and I've had chains with 4000 miles on them with no real signs of wear, too. I think the operator's style of riding plays a huge part in chain longevity, and sometimes it boils down to build quality (replaced a LOT of ski-doo 13w chains in the late 90's to early 2000's)... How often do you service your chaincase, and what does your schedule entail? I check tension every ride if it has a manual tensioner, and as mentioned above, keep clean oil in it.
As for the RMK belt drive, there will be riders that will break belts, due to shock loading, modifications, and overall riding style. Pretty sure wifey's ProRMK 600 will be fine with it.
Define "proper maintenance".
I will argue this point, as I've had several sleds with chaincases over the years, and religously change chaincase oil every 300 miles, and remove the cover and inspect the chain twice per season (I usually only get to ride 900-1000 miles). I've had new chains break and take out the case, and I've had chains with 4000 miles on them with no real signs of wear, too. I think the operator's style of riding plays a huge part in chain longevity, and sometimes it boils down to build quality (replaced a LOT of ski-doo 13w chains in the late 90's to early 2000's)... How often do you service your chaincase, and what does your schedule entail? I check tension every ride if it has a manual tensioner, and as mentioned above, keep clean oil in it.
As for the RMK belt drive, there will be riders that will break belts, due to shock loading, modifications, and overall riding style. Pretty sure wifey's ProRMK 600 will be fine with it.
Ummm, if you are refering to me, I ride a 2012 Pro not a Skidoo, Retodd.
Replace the chain every season, change the oil every season depending on miles you put on and make sure has proper tension before every ride. I would rather have a belt drive.
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Gearing plays a role in breakage as well... small top sprockets, like 18 tooth can contribute to early chain failure in the right conditions I like to run as big of a top and bottom sprocket as possible for the gear ratio I'm looking for.
IMO.. this new belt drive will prove to be durable.
IMO.. this new belt drive will prove to be durable.
