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Immigration apparently isn't the only law it's ok to break

Like my point or not, you are missing it.

We must first de-villainize these people and realize they are not so different than us.

This is the first step in finding a solution to the problem.

Yes there is a problem and yes we can solve it. It is not as simple as kicking them out of the country. Please don't say it is, because the greatest minds in our country (past and present) agree that that is not the solution.


Once again I do NOT advocate amnesty or citizenship!!!


Isn't the American way a collection of many different ways that continues to evolve. We don't have roots based on 1000s of years of tradition. The American way is still defining its self.

no i didnt miss the point... your missing the point entirely. the whole immigration issue is unconstitutional but it seems you want to subjugate the laws of the land to your opinion or i guess i could say its situational ethics for you... that is a slippery slope man.

the american way is not still defining itself it is just repeating history!
 
alrevedup, when you say who is going to do the jobs we are "too good for"..did you think the because of the mexicans these jobs now pay jackchit. meat packing jobs here in my town pay nearly 5 dollars less per hour from ten years ago.why? because these illegals don't care what they make and the employers see it. the greenhouses here are the same way. mexicans are filling up all these positions at half the wage. While I was in Vail last spring I noticed the same thing.Nearly every construction worker was a mexican..they are truely helping to ruin our economy.Not to mention the north side of our town looks like **** roach haven from there dirty living habits.
 
no i didnt miss the point... your missing the point entirely. the whole immigration issue is unconstitutional but it seems you want to subjugate the laws of the land to your opinion or i guess i could say its situational ethics for you... that is a slippery slope man.

the american way is not still defining itself it is just repeating history!

Ethics???

How about morality. Come on, why refuse to help your neighbor???


"The Constitution never mentions the word “immigration.” The closest it comes is “migration,” which it uses only once, in Article I, Section 9: the Feds are prohibited from interfering with “the Migration or Importation of such Persons as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit. . . .” This applied specifically to slavery, though some folks take it out of context to justify controlling immigration at the state level. That, of course, is a philosophical dodge: it merely shifts power over immigrants from one governmental group to another without answering the question of whether any litter of bureaucrats and politicians should dictate other people’s movements."
 
alrevedup, when you say who is going to do the jobs we are "too good for"..did you think the because of the mexicans these jobs now pay jackchit. meat packing jobs here in my town pay nearly 5 dollars less per hour from ten years ago.why? because these illegals don't care what they make and the employers see it. the greenhouses here are the same way. mexicans are filling up all these positions at half the wage. While I was in Vail last spring I noticed the same thing.Nearly every construction worker was a mexican..they are truely helping to ruin our economy.Not to mention the north side of our town looks like **** roach haven from there dirty living habits.
how many trailer parks filled with non-mexicans did you drive by on the way to the "north side of town"?

that is my poor attempt at a metaphor!!

really don't want to fight about this. Sticky, sticky stuff this immigration topic.

I just want to remember that these are fellow humans, regardless of there citizenship
 
no i didnt miss the point... your missing the point entirely. the whole immigration issue is unconstitutional but it seems you want to subjugate the laws of the land to your opinion or i guess i could say its situational ethics for you... that is a slippery slope man.

the american way is not still defining itself it is just repeating history!
At one time in our nation's history it was ethical to have slaves.

That issue pitted brother against brother and cost many lives in the Civil War.

Yes it is a slippery slope!!!!!!
 
Ethics???

How about morality. Come on, why refuse to help your neighbor???


"The Constitution never mentions the word “immigration.” The closest it comes is “migration,” which it uses only once, in Article I, Section 9: the Feds are prohibited from interfering with “the Migration or Importation of such Persons as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit. . . .” This applied specifically to slavery, though some folks take it out of context to justify controlling immigration at the state level. That, of course, is a philosophical dodge: it merely shifts power over immigrants from one governmental group to another without answering the question of whether any litter of bureaucrats and politicians should dictate other people’s movements."

i dont refuse to help my neighbor... in fact i would argue that upholding the proper laws is in fact helping my neighbores.

yes the constitution is as you say but that is reductionism again. taking the WHOLE issue in context is unconstitutional. that being sanctuary cities, giving illegals benefits such as healthcare, welfare, social security, not using the justice system as it should be to CONVICT and DEPORT forever... but hey i am probably waaaay off there.:rolleyes:hmmm... this has got me thinking... what better way to accomplish ones agenda or ideology than to have large voting blocks of people who are ready and willing to be governmentally dependant. starting to become clear why the vast majority of politicians are not taking a hard line stance on this. just a thought that popped in my head.
 
At one time in our nation's history it was ethical to have slaves.

That issue pitted brother against brother and cost many lives in the Civil War.

Yes it is a slippery slope!!!!!!

no real arguement there... man is certainly prone to many errors. one caveat though apparently in sombody's mind slavery was unethical .:)
 
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i dont refuse to help my neighbor... in fact i would argue that upholding the proper laws is in fact helping my neighbores.

yes the constitution is as you say but that is reductionism again. taking the WHOLE issue in context is unconstitutional. that being sanctuary cities, giving illegals benefits such as healthcare, welfare, social security, not using the justice system as it should be to CONVICT and DEPORT forever... but hey i am probably waaaay off there.:rolleyes:hmmm... this has got me thinking... what better way to accomplish ones agenda or ideology than to have large voting blocks of people who are ready and willing to be governmentally dependant. starting to become clear why the vast majority of politicians are not taking a hard line stance on this. just a thought that popped in my head.

Sanctuary citys need to. This is racist, playing favorites, You can say a word and I cant. I agree, good for you.
 
heres my .01 cent on this.

There used to be workers visas that were for seasonal jobs, that worked just fine. but with the illegals they don't go home. to say that they aren't criminals is wrong. they broke the law coming here. Most people are in one way or another. If you get caught drinking before 21 guess what, it goes on your record and you get delt with accordingly. it seems to me that you get more punishment for a MIP or the like, than being here illegally.

If anyone who comes here waits their turn and goes the the process I have no problem with them. They are usually the ones who come there to work the butt off and chase the real american dream.

With the whole Job americans won't do I think is a line of BS trying to justify them being here. americans have lost the pride of doing what it takes to make it and would rather collect from the goverment than go out and do a job that makes em break a sweat. The reason is that they feel entitled to having all the good things given to them, when really it's your are entitled to your freedom and the right to go out, bust your butt and make a better life through schooling, good old hard work and living on less than you make. When push comes to shove americans will do the work, they did before and once people get humbled, they will do it again. And i have done jobs that "americans won't do". We as a country are just lazy and a bunch of whiners.

My family came here legally and i expect the rest to do the same. the United States of America is great, no doubt about that, but theres a few things that piss me off. our offical language is English, so why is there press one for English and 2 for spanish?? we cater to this way to much. if you can't get by on english in this country you haven't meet one of the requirements to be here. another is how far we are straying for our constution. i won't even go into that but if you don't think so, go read it and look at what our goverment is trying to do.

This is getting way too long but I don't have anything against people wanting to come here and make a better life, I actually encourage it. But do it along the lines of the law like the rest of us, quit taking short cuts. and once you do that become an American, not your country first then and American.
 
heres my .01 cent on this.

There used to be workers visas that were for seasonal jobs, that worked just fine. but with the illegals they don't go home. to say that they aren't criminals is wrong. they broke the law coming here. Most people are in one way or another. If you get caught drinking before 21 guess what, it goes on your record and you get delt with accordingly. it seems to me that you get more punishment for a MIP or the like, than being here illegally.

If anyone who comes here waits their turn and goes the the process I have no problem with them. They are usually the ones who come there to work the butt off and chase the real american dream.

With the whole Job americans won't do I think is a line of BS trying to justify them being here. americans have lost the pride of doing what it takes to make it and would rather collect from the goverment than go out and do a job that makes em break a sweat. The reason is that they feel entitled to having all the good things given to them, when really it's your are entitled to your freedom and the right to go out, bust your butt and make a better life through schooling, good old hard work and living on less than you make. When push comes to shove americans will do the work, they did before and once people get humbled, they will do it again. And i have done jobs that "americans won't do". We as a country are just lazy and a bunch of whiners.

My family came here legally and i expect the rest to do the same. the United States of America is great, no doubt about that, but theres a few things that piss me off. our offical language is English, so why is there press one for English and 2 for spanish?? we cater to this way to much. if you can't get by on english in this country you haven't meet one of the requirements to be here. another is how far we are straying for our constution. i won't even go into that but if you don't think so, go read it and look at what our goverment is trying to do.

This is getting way too long but I don't have anything against people wanting to come here and make a better life, I actually encourage it. But do it along the lines of the law like the rest of us, quit taking short cuts. and once you do that become an American, not your country first then and American.

good post!!!:beer;
 
At one time in our nation's history it was ethical to have slaves.

That issue pitted brother against brother and cost many lives in the Civil War.

Yes it is a slippery slope!!!!!!

Everyone seems to think that the Civil war was all about slavery, when in fact it was a small instance of the issue of States Rights and limited Federal Power. The Civil war was about the southern/confederate states secession from the Union. Ie. wanting to break from the United States and Become their own country. The history books and modern teachings would like everyone to believe that it was all about slavery and the southerners were just greedy racist bastards. President Lincoln pinned the slavery label onto the justification of the war to gain political support from abolitionists which was much needed to win.

Now when southerners fly the confederate flag everyone wants to call them hate mongering racists, and some are, but for many it is about their heritage and history. I tend to look at it the same way as Mexicans, Puerto Ricans, Swedes, Germans, Italians ect flying the flag of their homeland along side the Red White and Blue. Its a statement of heritage and pride of their roots while stating that they are proud to be an American. Some look at it as an act of treason. It's all in your perspective.
 
You said it perfectly. Law breakers are just that law breakers. American dream seakers are different. Liberals and sankuary citys are extreamly anti american. Sorry for the spelling. Why would any city protect a law breaker? Does anybody know any city that would protect a murderer or a rapist? Why then should we protect illys who bleed off of our system? Go home Illys.
 
You said it perfectly. Law breakers are just that law breakers. American dream seakers are different. Liberals and sankuary citys are extreamly anti american. Sorry for the spelling. Why would any city protect a law breaker? Does anybody know any city that would protect a murderer or a rapist? Why then should we protect illys who bleed off of our system? Go home Illys.

Burndown1, go downtown to the Montana Brewing Company and check the dishwashers ID:face-icon-small-win.
 
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