I need to clear my mind here...
- Thread starter Dizzle
- Start date
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Sledcrazygrant
New member
Clearing my mind
Thanks dude, From one motor head to another. I think a little bitchin is ok, after all that is what got the big three to listen to us mountaineers and start building sleds for our style of riding in the mid 90's in the first place. A lot of the feed back does get back to the designers and engineers and they incorporate this stuff into the new models. I look at it this way, they gave me the basic machine, and I'll take it from here......More power and lose all unnecessary weight to make it MY SLED. Cheers...
Thanks dude, From one motor head to another. I think a little bitchin is ok, after all that is what got the big three to listen to us mountaineers and start building sleds for our style of riding in the mid 90's in the first place. A lot of the feed back does get back to the designers and engineers and they incorporate this stuff into the new models. I look at it this way, they gave me the basic machine, and I'll take it from here......More power and lose all unnecessary weight to make it MY SLED. Cheers...
I bought my first brand new polaris in 2011, it is a 2010 rmk 700. I was a little concerned at first because after just 26 miles it broke down. I was pretty damn angry but called the dealer and he said bring it right in, I did, twenty minutes later I had a new ecu and voltage regulator, I thought that was pretty good service they took care of me Very well. Anyways I have 900 miles on the same sled now with the original belt and spark plugs still in it, it runs unbelievably still without changing those YET! Anyways polaris does make great stuff and so does cat and doo, everyone has had problems with there sleds and they ALWAYS will. But In true fashion like most of us sled junkies, we will ride year after year and keep buying new sleds. If it pisses you off so bad about this or that breaking down, well quite frankly your in the wrong hobby cause sledding forever has been about breakdowns, beers, and good times no matter what! Oh and if you can go a whole day without someone's sledding having some kind of issue, they're rare REALLY enjoy those days.
Well after reading all the post all I can read is about Polaris having all of there issues. All I can say if you keep having trouble why keep buy Polaris. I have a m7 with over 3500 mountain riding miles and have never blown a belt or had any issues with it at all. I just switch belts every 1000 miles and keep that as my spare. My brother has an m8 with over 1500 miles and has had zero issues. It is sad that cat can produce that much horse power and have little engine issues. Also I have rode a new pro and a new proclimb and even though the cat is heavier it still does what the pro does. Now if cat dropped 20 lbs there would be no sled that could keep. Don't get me wrong I love the pro chassis but figure a way to drop the cat 800 hO
engine in it and now you got a great sled. I am not saying cat doesn't have issues but you here very little about there engine. I think they focus on power and not always weight, to me Polaris is always focusing on weight and not their engines my buddies had 2010 rmks and 4 out of the 5 of them blow there engines before 500 miles and and some of them got new engines put in and within 100 to 200 miles there second engine went out. If they knew they had these issues why don't they fix them. And oh ya it is sad that an 2006 m7 with a light weight can has just as much hp as a 2013 pro!!!
engine in it and now you got a great sled. I am not saying cat doesn't have issues but you here very little about there engine. I think they focus on power and not always weight, to me Polaris is always focusing on weight and not their engines my buddies had 2010 rmks and 4 out of the 5 of them blow there engines before 500 miles and and some of them got new engines put in and within 100 to 200 miles there second engine went out. If they knew they had these issues why don't they fix them. And oh ya it is sad that an 2006 m7 with a light weight can has just as much hp as a 2013 pro!!!
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Dizzle
Well-known member
Who is your dealer? I'd like to chat with them!
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Dizzle
Well-known member
I wouldn't necessarily say it's "sad," the 700cc engine is the most bulletproof of all of them. That extra 100cc's is what pushes these little motors over the reliability cliff. A factory turbo 700 in the Pro chassis, to me, would be the best option. If we could look past the cubic inches of a motor and focus more on reliability and power to weight, we'd be doing us all a favor. Chevy guys will argue though
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rmscustom
Well-known member
Idiotic statment... Oh ya I own both.
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CatRpillar
Well-known member
Interesting thread. Some numbers to assist in the comparisons:
First, if you add the rider, fuel, ice, etc, to any of the sleds, the hp /wt ratio will eventually go in favour of the higher hp machine, so the cat would probably edge out the poo.
Second - cost. My 1991 Indy 500 cost me $7k. My 2012 PC800 cost twice that. Allow for inflation and the Poo would be roughly $12k in todays dollars. But, the cat is a 153" mountain sled with way over twice the hp, maybe 30lbs lighter, waaaay better suspension and would absolutely kill the Poo.
Motors - an 800 Cat makes 160 ponies, or 200hp/l (or 149 kW/l if we want consistency in units). A 5.7l Chevy would have to make 1140hp. A Mercury outboard puts out 300 from 2.6l, or about 115hp/l - those engines can run wfo for as long or longer than a sled. The best non-sled production motors are in the 180 hp/l range - from a four stroke.
Also, sleds have great power to weight ratios but have extremely high powertrain losses, primarily due to having to drag around a 60lb hoop of rubber with 2.5" fan blades on it through a substance with a high drag coefficient. Hard to compare with an semi running 100psi tires with a huge displacement diesel engine.
And fwiw, my cat is about 410 semi wet right now so you can trim bacon off the pig.
First, if you add the rider, fuel, ice, etc, to any of the sleds, the hp /wt ratio will eventually go in favour of the higher hp machine, so the cat would probably edge out the poo.
Second - cost. My 1991 Indy 500 cost me $7k. My 2012 PC800 cost twice that. Allow for inflation and the Poo would be roughly $12k in todays dollars. But, the cat is a 153" mountain sled with way over twice the hp, maybe 30lbs lighter, waaaay better suspension and would absolutely kill the Poo.
Motors - an 800 Cat makes 160 ponies, or 200hp/l (or 149 kW/l if we want consistency in units). A 5.7l Chevy would have to make 1140hp. A Mercury outboard puts out 300 from 2.6l, or about 115hp/l - those engines can run wfo for as long or longer than a sled. The best non-sled production motors are in the 180 hp/l range - from a four stroke.
Also, sleds have great power to weight ratios but have extremely high powertrain losses, primarily due to having to drag around a 60lb hoop of rubber with 2.5" fan blades on it through a substance with a high drag coefficient. Hard to compare with an semi running 100psi tires with a huge displacement diesel engine.
And fwiw, my cat is about 410 semi wet right now so you can trim bacon off the pig.
I just say that if we keep getting better technology a sled that is 7 YEARS newer should be pumping out more hp then that and should also be more reliable!!!!
HOW the he!! does a thread like this turn into a brand wise chest-bumping session???
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R_8_N
Well-known member
Any two stroke engine without variable exhaust is only intended to be run at Wide Open Throttle (WOT)(Variable exhaust was invented to create a usable power curve so that a two stroke machine could be run at less than WOT and not burn up). My Stihl 70cc chainsaw runs WOT all day long and loves it, in fact it wouldn't have it any other way!!
Its snowest! 80% negative and my chits better than yours!
So true, but it should go like this, "My stuff is better than your chit" as I'm sure no one will admit to having chit.
bongwater changed
haha didn't even notice, see you're posts on here often
and I changed the bongwater anyways although it was pretty clean.
haha didn't even notice, see you're posts on here often
and I changed the bongwater anyways although it was pretty clean.
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xxjaredxx
Member
I think if you go to the right dealer that knows snowmobiles and how to assemble them properly, you won't be the guy on here complaining. The dealer i go to customizes the clutches to how they like them to perform and tinker with a few other stuff for a few extra bucks. People all around bring there sleds to them to have this done. There a polaris dealer only. Some of these other dealers sell all brands of snowmobiles and they throw these machines together as fast as they can and have there salesmen get every dollar out of your pocket. You end up paying top dollar and relying on there guy in the back putting these machines together hoping that he set your sled up properly and he doesn't even ride snowmobiles. So i believe that going to the right dealer can make all the difference in the world.
Funny you should say that, I just had great day out in the mountains with my buddy on a M1000 and me on my Phazer, rippin the trees, some big hits and drops and big wide open meadows. I want to buy a new sled but honestly am worried about the failure rate. If I have to leave my phazer in the bush, big whoop, but a new 10+ sled?? For that kinda $$ should be reliable first, I mean if you are stuck on a mountain in the winter you have a pretty good chance of not coming out. And whats to say two or more sleds dont break in one day. I have seen two newish sleds being towed out at the same time and we do not all ride in large packs. Not really ready to drop the coin unless I know I am getting reliability, at least.
Uhhhh...
Yeah, this is one of those discussions. We can go back to the first sleds that were made of steel with various types of slatted tracks, steel and rubber etc. We can move forward to the days with boogie wheels and rubber tracks still with steel hoods and components. They were probably real strong... not so fun as they were more of the work horse machine.
The 70's brought some cool stuff, plastic hoods, slide rail suspensions and lighter faster fun machines. They are no match for todays breed of machine, they were fast, light and fun but the suspensions and deep snow capabilities were far from today.
The 80's had some cool rides but were still alot like the older rides. In the 90's we once again saw big jumps., especially in suspensions and deep snow tracks. The power grew a bit also but not crazy. The Phazer, Mountain Max, XLT, Summit and Powder Special were mountain sleds that had never existed prior.
2000 ish was drastic. The Edge chassis came out, Doo did the Rev chassis and XP, somewhere in there Cat did the M... series and Yammy did a flip to 4 stroke!!! Crazy!!!
Since 2010 the games have changed again. Doo's XP has T-Motion, Cat has the turbo 4 stroker and an even better M... series and Yammy has the Nytro.. actually a tad older than 2010 but still a cool ride. Polaris has the Pro.
If you want reliability by a Yamaha. If you want to turbo it, it is good for many miles even boosted. I have heard some pretty large numbers racked on boosted rides.
If you want light and nimble, the Pro is pretty much dominant in this class. Doo is very nimble too but the weight numbers are not where Polaris is at.
Out of the box the cat has some great HP numbers. I'm not fond of the actual sled, but that is just how it fits and feels. Everyone is different. I know lots of Peeps real happy with their cats.
We can rip apart every sled. Doo had engine and driveshaft issues with the XP when it came out. Polaris had a bad go with the 900. Yamaha needs to go on a diet and I don't follow cat so I really don't know what issues they have had. Bottom line... Doo and Polaris have probably had a few more problems than the rest but they have truly led the pack in innovation, change and design in the two stroke markets.
I am not saying that they are the only ones, but Doo changed the market in rider forward and used some old tech in new motors with electronic reverse. Polaris built the edge chassis which changed the way mountain sleds were built forever and now has the lightest mountain sled and they have also got a completely different outlook on suspensions once again looking at the Rush. These are the things that every one overlooks and they come with some headaches.
The good thing is is that there is such a thing as warrantee these days. It stinks to have a sled break. I personnally have towed every brand out of the hills including Yamaha and Cat. They all break, I have broken most brands too. I even broke a cat... I did own a cat years ago.
I bought a Pro this year. I love it!!! I have ridden it hard!! I purposely beat it on the trail bumps to test the drive line. I've taken some large jumps. I have over 700 km on it, maybe 1000 by now actually and I have not had a failure. It has performed flawlessly and impeccably. I also ride a turbo Nytro so I do some swapping. I love both sleds. If I had a Doo after riding a couple I know I would love it too. I haven't ridden this years Cat but I believe if I had a weekend of seat time, I would grow to like it too.
Bottom line is I can't worry about the potential failure. If it happens I will deal with it and collect my warrantee. I am sorry some people have had some bad experiences. I hope that Polaris has stood for the repairs. I have had very little problem with polaris standing good for the small amount of problems I have ever had with any of the Polaris sleds I have owned. I would expect nothing less!!!
Yeah, this is one of those discussions. We can go back to the first sleds that were made of steel with various types of slatted tracks, steel and rubber etc. We can move forward to the days with boogie wheels and rubber tracks still with steel hoods and components. They were probably real strong... not so fun as they were more of the work horse machine.
The 70's brought some cool stuff, plastic hoods, slide rail suspensions and lighter faster fun machines. They are no match for todays breed of machine, they were fast, light and fun but the suspensions and deep snow capabilities were far from today.
The 80's had some cool rides but were still alot like the older rides. In the 90's we once again saw big jumps., especially in suspensions and deep snow tracks. The power grew a bit also but not crazy. The Phazer, Mountain Max, XLT, Summit and Powder Special were mountain sleds that had never existed prior.
2000 ish was drastic. The Edge chassis came out, Doo did the Rev chassis and XP, somewhere in there Cat did the M... series and Yammy did a flip to 4 stroke!!! Crazy!!!
Since 2010 the games have changed again. Doo's XP has T-Motion, Cat has the turbo 4 stroker and an even better M... series and Yammy has the Nytro.. actually a tad older than 2010 but still a cool ride. Polaris has the Pro.
If you want reliability by a Yamaha. If you want to turbo it, it is good for many miles even boosted. I have heard some pretty large numbers racked on boosted rides.
If you want light and nimble, the Pro is pretty much dominant in this class. Doo is very nimble too but the weight numbers are not where Polaris is at.
Out of the box the cat has some great HP numbers. I'm not fond of the actual sled, but that is just how it fits and feels. Everyone is different. I know lots of Peeps real happy with their cats.
We can rip apart every sled. Doo had engine and driveshaft issues with the XP when it came out. Polaris had a bad go with the 900. Yamaha needs to go on a diet and I don't follow cat so I really don't know what issues they have had. Bottom line... Doo and Polaris have probably had a few more problems than the rest but they have truly led the pack in innovation, change and design in the two stroke markets.
I am not saying that they are the only ones, but Doo changed the market in rider forward and used some old tech in new motors with electronic reverse. Polaris built the edge chassis which changed the way mountain sleds were built forever and now has the lightest mountain sled and they have also got a completely different outlook on suspensions once again looking at the Rush. These are the things that every one overlooks and they come with some headaches.
The good thing is is that there is such a thing as warrantee these days. It stinks to have a sled break. I personnally have towed every brand out of the hills including Yamaha and Cat. They all break, I have broken most brands too. I even broke a cat... I did own a cat years ago.
I bought a Pro this year. I love it!!! I have ridden it hard!! I purposely beat it on the trail bumps to test the drive line. I've taken some large jumps. I have over 700 km on it, maybe 1000 by now actually and I have not had a failure. It has performed flawlessly and impeccably. I also ride a turbo Nytro so I do some swapping. I love both sleds. If I had a Doo after riding a couple I know I would love it too. I haven't ridden this years Cat but I believe if I had a weekend of seat time, I would grow to like it too.
Bottom line is I can't worry about the potential failure. If it happens I will deal with it and collect my warrantee. I am sorry some people have had some bad experiences. I hope that Polaris has stood for the repairs. I have had very little problem with polaris standing good for the small amount of problems I have ever had with any of the Polaris sleds I have owned. I would expect nothing less!!!
It seems to me one company thought that reliability was a strong point of selling, but their numbers don't show it in their efforts.
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