I need to clear my mind here...

[Dootimes2]

I have a '12 Pro 800 162 X 3" and I don't have cooling problems. All I've done to mine is get rid of the ported snowflap and put on an IQ snowflap. Even on hardpack/ icy trails, with my scratchers down, my engine runs between 125*-130*.



Sent from my iPad when I should be sledding.

Its not on the trail that they have problems. It is when you get off the trail in low snow situations or on secondary trails where you can only go 5 or 10 mph. If you cannot keep the speed up they heat up even with scratchers down and I do not really like them down when going through the alder brush on some of the lower trails to the good stuff. Even with 1 or 2 inches of fresh snow we need scratchers down when doo's and cats do not. I have read too many posts on here to know it is not just me, but like I said I love my pro and it would be about perfect without this problem. I spend way too much time watching the temp guage. I will be testing the new heat exchangers today and with the marginal snow at the moment I will know right away how much they help and will post my findings.

 

[RMK935VA]

A small block Chevrolet can make 500+ horsepower pretty reliably with some creativity. The 5.7 liter Toyota pickup makes 380 horsepower and could make a lot more without too much trouble since it is already a dohc 4 valve head design. You can buy a Toyota produced supercharger kit and install it and get over 500 horsepower. I would venture to say that you could also expect a long life with that setup.

Nevertheless, it goes without saying that reducing weight and increasing power in an 800 cc machine is going to affect reliability. Backcountry snowmobiles are abused machines too. I think that 3,000 miles before having to do anything to the motor is a reasonable expectation. However, some will just not make it that long. Given the relatively tiny production numbers, it is also reasonable to expect that we are getting about as good as we are going to get as long as the push continues for lower weight and more usable power.

I do find the aftermarket offerings (pistons, heads, long rod kits, etc.) that offer greater reilability and more power interesting but their claims are generall unproven. I can't believe that Polaris would not change the engine design if these aftermarket improvements actually work as claimed. I also think that the big elephant in the room is the EPA. Manufacturers struggle to be compliant while building a machine that has what the consumer wants. It is a huge tradeoff and balancing act. I think that snowmobiles should be exempt given the tiny numbers actually produced. You could take all of the pollution produced by all of the snowmobiles on the planet and it would not add up to what one Chinese coal fired power plant emits in a day. The EPA should concentrate on making a difference in total pollution numbers and quit regulating a tiny industry to death.

 

[Dizzle]

The EPA should concentrate on making a difference in total pollution numbers and quit regulating a tiny industry to death.

PREACH!!

 

[snowmobiler]

back to the real world.sleds will 15k in a couple years.LOL.

 

[Dootimes2]

See, I'm sorry and I'm not trying to offend you, but I think this is nit-picking. Yes I had to ride with the scratchers down the last time I visited my cousin in McCall but only until we got off the beaten path...once we hit a few inches of loose snow they were fine. These are specialized mountain sleds, not touring machines. Maybe a crossover of some sort would fit you better?



That I couldn't tell you, I'm not smart enough

But you would think, by the sheer displacement alone, that it would be somewhat closer. Then factor in oxygen levels and such...I mean, not to bang on Chevy but damn..



Damn. I knew of the IQ 800's blowing, but not the newer motors in the Pro chasis..

Don't worry I am not the least bit offended. I bleed no color other than blood red and am not brand loyal at all. Just making the point they have a couple problems they have known about and have not fixed them. I have no need for a crossover sled as I live in the middle of the mountains that get an average snowfall of 200-250" a year. Yes they do not overheat when in a few inches of snow, but sometimes getting to that snow in early and late season is a problem.Or in low snow seasons as this one is and the other brands do not have the same problems thats all. If people do not nit pick on a $12000 toy they will not make them better. The more we let them know about the shortfalls the less of them we will have. 1 last thing is there are plenty of posts on here about broken piston and cylinder skirts. If mine goes it will get a long rod motor and keep smiling.

 

[R_8_N]

you talked about power to weight....figured I would do a little research on this since ive been curious about the real numbers of it. If cat or doo has made changes between 12-13 the numbers will be off a bit. but this gives ya a good base line. If all 3 of these sleds lined up for a drag race with the exact same weight guy(or girl) on them the polaris should win right??

Carls "wet weights"

2013 polaris pro 155
weight 438 lbs
HP 146.1
power to weight ratio (horsepower: pounds) = 0.33356164383562

2012 ETEC 800 154"
weight 501 lbs
HP 159.2(HP from a 13)
power to weight ratio (horsepower: pounds) = 0.31776447105788

2012 M8 153"
weight 496 lbs
HP 163.4 (HP is from a 13)
power to weight ratio (horsepower: pounds) = 0.32943548387097

weights from this page...
http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/showthread.php?t=304743&page=3&highlight=m8+sno+pro+weight
HP numbers from this link...
http://www.amsnow.com/en/Subscriber...0 Rush Pro-R and Ski-Doo MXZx 800R E-TEC.aspx
calculator
http://www.ajdesigner.com/phphorsepower/horsepower_equation_power_to_weight_ratio.php

 

[Dizzle]

...not that drag racing mountain sleds proves anything, but it's still fun to see how close they all compare in the power to weight department. Obviously every motor is gonna make more/less than claimed, but damn - I didn't know the Cat motor made that much power wow!

 

[550iq]

you talked about power to weight....figured I would do a little research on this since ive been curious about the real numbers of it. If cat or doo has made changes between 12-13 the numbers will be off a bit. but this gives ya a good base line. If all 3 of these sleds lined up for a drag race with the exact same weight guy(or girl) on them the polaris should win right??

Carls "wet weights"

2013 polaris pro 155
weight 438 lbs
HP 146.1
power to weight ratio (horsepower: pounds) = 0.33356164383562

2012 ETEC 800 154"
weight 501 lbs
HP 159.2(HP from a 13)
power to weight ratio (horsepower: pounds) = 0.31776447105788

2012 M8 153"
weight 496 lbs
HP 163.4 (HP is from a 13)
power to weight ratio (horsepower: pounds) = 0.32943548387097

weights from this page...
http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/showthread.php?t=304743&page=3&highlight=m8+sno+pro+weight
HP numbers from this link...
http://www.amsnow.com/en/Subscriber...0 Rush Pro-R and Ski-Doo MXZx 800R E-TEC.aspx
calculator
http://www.ajdesigner.com/phphorsepower/horsepower_equation_power_to_weight_ratio.php

So the next question is the power to track:weight ratio? Who's driveline rules supreme? 550iq

 

[knifedge]

So the next question is the power to track:weight ratio? Who's driveline rules supreme? 550iq

--the one that does not break and actually transfers power to the track

 

[Jay]

--the one that does not break and actually transfers power to the track

Polaris has always put the power to the ground better than any of the others. There is a reason so many guys have spent alot of time and money putting polaris primary clutches on other brands. But, yes, snapping the mainshaft off doesn't get you very far.

 

[FUchiZad]

Yuuuuuuup!

You, tudizzle, have inspired me to drink too many beers! I dropped almost 11k for my 12pro 800 knowing the motor issues. I DON"T CARE! the sled is the shizzle cuz I have a bad shoulder from my 180 hp 98 doo mach z 159 with jawz pipes, filters, etc, etc. that thing was 580 lbs. dry for Christ sake. And in the end, my pursuit of power ended a great running, reliable motor before it hit 3k miles. Soooo, as tudizzle has stated the art of motors and HP is going to be an ongoing test field, especially when half of the blowups are "stock" (minus the turbo, fuel control, pipe, head, etc. that you just took off).
With that being said, for the complaintants.... I have 20 or so friends that would take in a heartbeat these problem sleds of yours and swap to you their perfectly running, problem free sleds from 2006 or so. Shut up and ride til she blows (haha) and be thankful you are able to afford one of these super sick machines.

 

[snowmobiler]

......

 

[knifedge]

The turboed sleds seem to last longer than stockers-maybe because they get more fuel and oil

Doo and Cat (the industry leader)put out substantially more power and last substantially a lot longer- the Polaris CFI motor is obviously a cash cow- don't make excuses for it- expect more for your money

Imo

 

[tudizzle]

You, tudizzle, have inspired me to drink too many beers! I dropped almost 11k for my 12pro 800 knowing the motor issues. I DON"T CARE! the sled is the shizzle cuz I have a bad shoulder from my 180 hp 98 doo mach z 159 with jawz pipes, filters, etc, etc. that thing was 580 lbs. dry for Christ sake. And in the end, my pursuit of power ended a great running, reliable motor before it hit 3k miles. Soooo, as tudizzle has stated the art of motors and HP is going to be an ongoing test field, especially when half of the blowups are "stock" (minus the turbo, fuel control, pipe, head, etc. that you just took off).
With that being said, for the complaintants.... I have 20 or so friends that would take in a heartbeat these problem sleds of yours and swap to you their perfectly running, problem free sleds from 2006 or so. Shut up and ride til she blows (haha) and be thankful you are able to afford one of these super sick machines.

WHOA WHOA


lest we get this twisted DIZZLE is not affiliated the one and only TUDIZZLE


time to change the bongwater




.....carry on

 

[Mafesto]

I have said this in other threads as well.
I realize it is not "cutting edge" technology, but for less than $9000 before incentives & discounts the 2013 Summit 800 sport is an absolute bargain & very reliable.
Throw a set of air frames, hood vents & a tmotion on it & for under 10 G it is very similar to your $13 G iron.

 

[snowmobiler]

WHOA WHOA


lest we get this twisted DIZZLE is not affiliated the one and only TUDIZZLE


time to change the bongwater
.....carry on

yo.fo shizzle dizzle

 

[dub]

Build a racecar if you what to talk about money that can go out the window fast

lmfao... You guys have no idea!

 

[drypowder]

I HEAR YA LOUD AND CLEAR

I remember back in '06 i popped my 800 summit with 3100 miles on it , i took it to the dealer , he said you need a new short block . He started in on me ....... He said "I Know how u ride" and i said wait wait wait im not complaining , I have had a ton of fun for 3100 miles in the deep , pinned most of the time.. I went on to say all i want to know is how much and when can i go do it again... he laughed and then went on again and pointed to a sled like mine in the shop that had 5000 miles on it.. I dont care. i ride like i want to , i dont buy a sled to store in a show room...
Also i wonder how these sleds can go through this deep snow......anybody ever try walking, crawling through it huh .. it amazes me the power these sleds have and i agree, i like something about everyone of these sled brands.. its the same with trucks, if i could take from one brand and add to another sooner or later i would still be wondering what else... welcome to technology.
I weigh 161 lbs... and i say this if at all possible , the greatest weight savings is yourself.. NOW GO PLAY

 

[jasfaa]

We are beginning to see mass belt failures in WA and OR. Our snow just changed from light and fluffy to heavy and wet. If your a flat lander or have lightweight snow your probably fine. I have a feeling northwest mountain spring riding will cause a huge increase in failures. Mine grenaded this weekend at half throttle and two feet of fresh snow. 425 miles. I wasn't the only one either. My dealer had two other failures before I showed up Monday morning. I don't believe the 92 belt failure quote is accurate.

I was told that out of 10,000 2013 Pro RMK's produced, only 92 of them were reported with belt drive problems. I'd say thats a pretty darn good statistic if you ask me. I bet AC or Ski Doo wouldn't even issue a "fix" to the "problem" with those kinds of numbers.



I'm not saying theres 12k worth of product, what you/we are paying for is the engineering behind the sled. From the motors to chassis, suspension, track, steering geometry...I wouldn't even want to take a guess at the amount of man hours that is put into these mountain sleds...or any sled for that matter.



A see piston to wall tolerances mentioned a couple times in here and that great. The reason for them making a "loose" motor is they tend to make more power. The trade-off is life span. A loose motor is gonna burn more oil, vibrate more, run louder, but will make more power. I believe manufactures can get away with higher tolerances for engine balancing as well. If you run a tight gap, grams turn into pounds and if you're not careful...you're sideloading the ring and scorching walls.

I'm terrible with math, but depending on where you look...different websites will say that a "rule of thumb" is 15-17cc's for every 1 horsepower. If you were to equate this to the 800 motors, that comes out to 53.3 horsepower. How happy would we be with our sleds if they made 53 horsepower? And thats not even factoring in parasitic loss either haha. These little bastards churning out 70+ hp per cylinder in a .800 cc motor.

Take that same power output and plug it into a V8. If you small block 350 made the same power per hole as these motors, you would be at 560...even though your'e over 5 times larger in displacement. Your 350 Chevy = 5, 735.4724 cc. Why in the hell aren't we all driving around in 600 plus hp pickups!? lol!

 

[stucksummit]

Love it! Great post..