I need to clear my mind here...

[Dizzle]

...and this may not sit well with some of you, but take it for what it is.

The mountain segment is undeniably the most controversial aspect of snowmobiles. For the last __ years, it has been all about weight savings and dyno numbers. Thats it. With new technology, these sleds today are taking us places we honestly have no reason being. Yet, all we can do is bash and ridicule and it gets worse and worse every year.

I don't know how many of you are into engines, but I for one, am. I am fascinated by engines of all sorts, but specifically the power to weight category. My previous hobby was Honda's. Yes - the "rice burners." No I didn't have the huge mufflers, neon paint and huge wings, but I was into power - mostly N/A - and trying to get down the track as quickly as I could. I built a conservative motor once being a 1.6 liter, 11:1 compression, mild lift/duration camshafts and custom made header with engine management tuned @ sea level. I made 165 on a dynojet. No bad for a little 4 cylinder under 2 liters right?

Take that number and compare it to what these TWO cylinder motors are making. Take that number, and make it run in any elevation you put the sled in, WITHOUT tapping into your laptop and tuning your air/fuel ratio's. And then not only demand that power, but demand it for over 2 thousand miles...trouble free..on pump gas and making the DEQ happy at the same time.

Almost every thread I read, it has something to do with engine output, reliability, fuel consumption, vibration, etc. etc.

I'm tired of it. The 3 brands are squeeeeeeeezing literally every ounce of power they can possibly make and all we can do is throw them under the bus. Yes we spend allot of money for our sleds and yes it sucks being broke down miles away from the trailer, but how about we think about this the next time someone makes a drag race video on mountain sleds? Or goes to our dealer complaining about how this ______ beat my _______. I might be speaking out of line here, and I sincerely apologize if I am, but unless you have personal motor building experience, in my opinion - you have no right to criticize power output or reliability. How many passes does a Top Fuel motor make before it is rebuilt? I'm not saying these make 8,000 horsepower, but when you look at them for what they are..and compare power to weight, all 3 of these motors are incredible!!

And my last point, and probably what will piss people off the most - is weight. And not the sled's weight.

I see allot of guys complaining about ride quality and bottoming out. A majority of you are 230+. I want you to look at that number. 230+. A brand builds a specific mountain sled emphasizing on two things: Power and weight. With the idea of weight savings in the back of your mind, I have no idea how you heavier guys can expect a stock, specialized mountain sled keep up with your handling requirements. Bottoming out is the #1 thing I see...do you have any idea how much of a shock it would require to prevent 300+ pounds from bottoming out with a maximum length of 16" or so? Good lord!? That is a TON of force coming down!!

I'm not trying to piss anyone off, but I think everyone needs to realize exactly what you are demanding out of a mass-produced, factory built snowmobile. Be it power, or handling, or reliability, terrain specific...I mean, put yourself in there shoes. This thread could be posted in all 3 manufactures subforums because I don't believe one "brand" of riders is more guilty than the next. Maybe I've just drank too much beer tonight, but seriously guys....these are amazing machines that are made available to us for $13k and under. Give credit to where credit is due.

 

[Broseph]

Rock it dizzle!!

 

[wellfed777]

well said sir !

from a fat complainer

 

[Powderforlife907]

I haven't had a problem with the 800 Polaris motor yet but I have had quite a few friends that needed to get towed 20-30 miles to the trail because their motor blew(out of warranty too $$$$$). To tell you the truth I really wouldn't care if the motor put out any more HP as long as it was reliable... A lot of problems people been having could be solved by QC or a little more R&D.

 

[TGitt]

Well said.

However I feel i need to clear up a few things. I have been one of those complaining on here, but for different reasons. I too am fascinated with these small two stoke engines. It baffles me that you can throw a turbo on there and have more power than a majority of people's daily drivers. And that's out of two small cylinders. I know that anything running at that high of performance will have problems.

But what I am complaining about is how we, the consumer, always seem to end up doing r&d. I know that it is impossible to imitate real world experience, but every Polaris I have owned has had ridiculous problems, and that aside from motor issues (I've had a number of those as well). For example, I'm a college student and i forked out a lot of coin for my pro, and it didn't even make it 40 miles before I had to be towed out. For $12000 that is ridiculous. Then this past weekend I rode with some guys who have had nothing but trouble with belt drives. The one guy broke his 6th, in less than 1000 miles. Another guy broke two in two days and broke a total of 4 with 800 miles on his sled. At one point we had two guys break that belt on the same bump.

I guess I'm just complaining about quality control. For that kind of money, I think they should have tested these more. Maybe a tensioner or something.

 

[Dizzle]

And that^ is a totally legitimate complaint. That is garbage. It also makes me think though, if Polaris could give up 5-8 hp in favor of better reliability, should they? Cuz then I think all we would hear about is how slow they are...or they don't make enough power. Hell, we already get that. If Cat's motor would give up some power to consume less oil and fuel, should they? Same for Ski Doo. We are so stuck on hp numbers that it puts a strain on the manufactures, I think it would make more sense to live within our means and allow the manufactures to build reliable motors....but then that would require eeeeveryone to stop complaining so we all know that isn't gonna happen. I dunno...guess I'm just thinkin out loud. A LITTLE less power, better reliability, lower price tag. Cuz we all know we're just a hair dryer away from making as much as we want

 

[Powderforlife907]

The question is how does the pro have the lowest HP and the least reliable? Even if the cat motor sacrificed some HP for mpgs it would still have more power and reliable.

 

[snowmobiler]

i have no complaints.i ride a skidoo.

 

[Jay]

You want reliable polaris HP?? 1200 watercraft based triple. Bone stock, regular pump gas, 200+ HP all day long. Throw in some mild mods and you've got 250. Engine weighs 20 lbs +/- more than a BB twin. Many, many owners going 6000+ miles and never lifting the hood except to add oil. I'm on my 3rd year and haven't changed my belt yet. Polaris has almost every single part sitting on their shelves, it would cost almost nothing to put this engine into production. Don't tell me polaris isn't the HP king, I can axel dance whenever the mood hits me.

 

[Xrider]

And....what other piece of motorized equipment on the planet is operated at WFO like a snowmobile?

 

[jkjasperson]

And....what other piece of motorized equipment on the planet is operated at WFO like a snowmobile?

My weed wacker! And that b.... Is broke every time I grab it. Ha

 

[xc6rider]

And....what other piece of motorized equipment on the planet is operated at WFO like a snowmobile?

I run tractors on rabbit all day long

 

[Merlin]

You're absolutley right, these are amazing machines! The places that I'm able to get to riding my Pro with ease, in comparison to where I struggled to get to on my Edge, is amazing.............I'm grateful for the advances that have been made & I wouldn't go back to the Edge chassis if you paid me!

I don't much care to listen to complaining either however when folks post their experiences of failed engines with broken cylinder skirts, followed with the subsequent findings of many "wrenchers" who have discovered excessive piston to cylinder wall clearances & "out of adjustment" oil pump linkages on brand new engines, along with broken driveshafts, broken QD belts, broken a-arms, etc., I feel they have every right to be upset - No questions asked!

As for cutting the manufacturer's a break, well...................Their level of concern for their customer is directly proportional to likelihood of a significant pending lawsuit in concert with lost sales...............Now that's not to say that there aren't many dealers that are genuinely concerned with customer satisfaction & do what it takes to make it right by the person who laid out $13K for a new machine............

I will go out on a limb and state that any large scale manufacturer that has been around for awhile has long since lost any real concern for the public at large - They base their desicions almost soley on the "numbers" as dictated by a boardroom full of people who operate with a completely different moral compass than most of us.............


That being said, I still do take your point & agree that whining is difficult to stomach........There's the right way & the wrong to convey your concerns..........Here's an example of the right way: http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/showthread.php?t=338458

Yet, all we can do is bash and ridicule and it gets worse and worse every year.....these are amazing machines that are made available to us for $13k and under. Give credit to where credit is due.

 

[freekweet mods]

I believe most complaints boil down to the reliability of the machine,this includes all brands.If you are in an area where snowmobiling is seasonal and you are spending alot of time and money dragging out and repairing your sled instead of riding and enjoying it begins to piss us off. Manufactures know that to many of us snowmobiling is what crack cocaine is to the addict;we will spend what seems like an endless amount of money in order to enjoy the sport. The only defense we have in hopes of getting our moneys worth is to bi@#$ about quality and reliability issues.

 

[snowmobiler]

in the old days before computors,we went outside and played.

 

[meathooker]

Don't try MTn biking, they'll spend $200 to drop. 100 grams off of the handle bars and $2000 to drop 200 grams off their wheels!

When I was 170 lbs I was a total weight weenie. Now I'm 200 and figured its silly to spend money taking weight off my sled when I could easily drop it off myself.

As to the reliability of the pro; We pulled a pro out of a hell hole yesterday. More reliable motors in the 800 would be nice.

 

[bown6]

Build a racecar if you what to talk about money that can go out the window fast

 

[m8magicandmystery]

these should be amazing machines..we are not dealing with breakthrough technology here..

what the failure is of the manufacturers is to put some thought into applying the technology that has been proven and tested for years on other applications..

They are in a habit of slapping this stuff together and forwarding it onward to us,and i guess its a pressure cooker amongst them to compete for our dollar.

Realistically the best sled is the turd that floats while the other three turds sink...but they are all turds...


but bang for the buck they still are a fair bargain ...!!!!

 

[89sandman]

don't here them complaining when i plunk down my 12k for thier product. for that kind of coin i DO expect something that is reliable. they are getting PLENTY of money for what they are selling. you can't tell me theres anywhere near 12k worth of product in a snowmobile, not even close...

 

[knifedge]

--Polaris owners should be expecting more OEM 800cc HP and a lot better reliability to at least reach industry standard -- industry standard is around 160hp and Cat designed Suzuki engines run easily past 3k miles problem free, not sure about Doo reliability but maybe close --- if you make excuses for not having it, you will never get it

--Many Pro owners have had relatively trouble free engines, but also way too many have not. Not to mention drivetrain issues which every 2013 Pro owner had to fix or modify

--Just saying there may be more going on with Polaris than what some people may or want to realize and changes may need to be made starting in the corporate office -- at least from a consumer/rider/owner point of view. Maybe the engine dept. has wanted to design, build, and install a new engine but corporate looks at the sales numbers and asks .... why???