How light can you get a Pro?

[IdahoPowderHound]

From my experience starting with the old edge chassie moving through the IQ and now the Pro....... The sag effect comes into play after a few hundred miles sometimes more sometimes less.... i didnt notice the sag effect on any 13's this past year. I cant say the enhanced valving helped or if other internal (piston thickness/o-rings/cylinder bodys etc) parts helped these known issues... The amount of a beating those rear shocks take is unreal... not saying its right for them to sag out or fail like they do but if you factor your weight fully geared and 30 lb pack atleast plus rear sled weight plus snow and ice packed into suspension and tunnel those shocks get pumped

 

[LoudHandle]

The sag is a factor of spring rate and geometry. What do you expect for a $15-20 spring wound from the cheapest spring steel available? It will sag before they get it to powdercoat much less on a sled. Buy quality springs and sag will be much less but they are designed to have about 1/3 travel ride in when on sled. Valving has no effect on sag, valving only effects the speed at which the shock can Compress and rebound.

 

[IdahoPowderHound]

Poor valving and low shock pressure combined with ****ty springs is what causes this. Being that the Pro is a coil over design and saying that the internals of the shock have nothing to do with sag effect is not correct but thats an argument for another thread as this thread is getting off topic yet again....

Anyone have info or pics of a full carbon chassie tunnel and bulkhead yet? im sure its being done and probably already has been done but this is the next step to lesser weight......

 

[Scott]

Is anyone making Ti replacement springs for these shocks?

 

[LoudHandle]

Poor valving and low shock pressure combined with ****ty springs is what causes this. Being that the Pro is a coil over design and saying that the internals of the shock have nothing to do with sag effect is not correct but thats an argument for another thread as this thread is getting off topic yet ..

I will respectively disagree with you, as you have already stated in this thread you don't really understand valving. Even without a shock at all the sag will be the same. The Spring carries the load and sets ride height. Valving, oil weight, and charge pressure only effects the speed at which the shock thus suspension can react. This only applies to sprung shocks, as the air shocks are a bit more convoluted.

Back to topic................

 

[LoudHandle]

Is anyone making Ti replacement springs for these shocks?

A call to RCS (Renton Coil Spring) would answer that? (I've been sidelined for a few years due to an ugly divorce) so I'm not up to date on their current production items. IMO they at least were the best TI spring manufacturer, they also make high quality steel springs.

 

[phatty]

I cant wait till you guys get to ride a 2013 pro with a 155 track and feal just how much lighter the sled is in the front end compared to years past. Its to light up front(for me anyways)....Front end lifts too much in soft snow when climbing even with suspension setup right in the skid.... Thats why we ordered a bunch of 163's for our clinics this year. Theres a fine line that cant be crossed with power to weight ratio. The 13's are a whole different sled with there weight loss anything much lighter will be hard to ride and control in soft snow conditions.

properly set up timbersled skid should fix that. Dont you guys run timbersled suspension?

 

[backcountryislife]

I will respectively disagree with you, as you have already stated in this thread you don't really understand valving. Even without a shock at all the sag will be the same. The Spring carries the load and sets ride height. Valving, oil weight, and charge pressure only effects the speed at which the shock thus suspension can react.

BUT... he's saying that the springs were starting to sag at about 300 miles in general. Valving WILL effect sag in the long run, as a shock without enough damping puts more pressure on the spring quicker, and bottoms more.

So yes, brand new, the valving has NOTHING to do with the sitting height of the suspension, but after time the valving/ damping is a huge factor & will allow a spring to fatigue quicker than otherwise if set up poorly.

As much as I'd love to disagree with IPH... you call him out for not understanding valving, but then you give an incomplete explanation missing a significant part of how a shock will work long term. Just sayin...

 

[KAWGRN]

I run a timbersled suspension,,,,,, on my YZ 450!And soon my 570 berg!!

 

[LoudHandle]

BUT... he's saying that the springs were starting to sag at about 300 miles in general. Valving WILL effect sag in the long run, as a shock without enough damping puts more pressure on the spring quicker, and bottoms more.

So yes, brand new, the valving has NOTHING to do with the sitting height of the suspension, but after time the valving/ damping is a huge factor & will allow a spring to fatigue quicker than otherwise if set up poorly.

As much as I'd love to disagree with IPH... you call him out for not understanding valving, but then you give an incomplete explanation missing a significant part of how a shock will work long term. Just sayin...

My apologies to IPH, I did misinterpret his comments on post #60. But I will stick with my comments on how shocks and springs work. Does ****ty valving or the wrong spring rate or junk springs cause accelerated failure you bet it does! but to say valving causes sag is incorrect! Incorrect valving can cause cheap springs to lose spring rate faster and thus contribute to sag. I can agree to that. I was attempting to be brief and get the thread back to the OP's intent.

 

[backcountryislife]

My apologies to IPH, I did misinterpret his comments on post #60. But I will stick with my comments on how shocks and springs work. Does ****ty valving or the wrong spring rate or junk springs cause accelerated failure you bet it does! but to say valving causes sag is incorrect! Incorrect valving can cause cheap springs to lose spring rate faster and thus contribute to sag. I can agree to that. I was attempting to be brief and get the thread back to the OP's intent.

Got ya... just clarifying how a sled that "usually" sags at 300 could be different with different valving.

Just doing my part with the hijack...

 

[IdahoPowderHound]

properly set up timbersled skid should fix that. Dont you guys run timbersled suspension?

Im just trying to relate to stock sleds thats all. This is just my personal opinion and i thought it might merrit some attention since i had some seat time on one this winter.... of coarse a coupling skid with full adjustability will solve this and keep the front end planted but people need to know what to expect in stock form not what to expect after they dump another couple grand into there expensive investment... And like stated before i was in no way trying to bash on the 155 i was just stating that i noticed how light the front felt. Some people love a light front end and others dont and being that im in the business of product testing, sharring my findings with others is my job.

As for timbersled skids, Allen Mangum usually sets us up with a few skids a year. The setup he built for Dan last year was unreal! even with 12 pounds of boost and that mean peak track you could adjust that skid to glue the skis to the ground. pretty impressive.

 

[geo]

Thanx IDP. 2013's are a bit different then. I'll be impressed if I am satisfied stock. That will be a first for me lol. Why? cause we all weight different and all ride different and all have different HP (elevation).
I'll be happy trying to keep the front down (yee haw).

So how light can we get. Something always rings true when talking this talk. Real weight loss.
Need to add some weight first (I do anyway). Belly pan skid, tree resistant front bumper, functional rear bumper, on sled storage, venting,,,.
Some of the weight lose claims are nice but I would like to hear real world #'s. What does the Pro hood weight without lights (if it wieghts 17lbs you can't lose 17 with CF). Any one ever weight a fuel tank (looking for large loses first). What is the actual weight of the can (want to change that just to get the heat away from the belt or will have add weight with a heat shield LOL).
I'd really like to see some real weights of the arms and stuff ( they look pretty light already to me).

 

[turboless terry]

I helped derail someones thread so thought I would post my derail topic here. How light can you get a Pro? I was thinking 40lbs off would be reasonable without going to a carbon chassis and the $10,000 that would cost. The Pro is already light so I think there are less products there to make it super light like the Cat has or even Doo.
Fox front shocks: 4 lbs. $1300
Toms skid with Fox shocks: 10lbs $2000
Diamond S hood: 11lbs $425
Ti bolt kit: 5lbs $500
Foam: 2lbs $0
Ti upper A arms: 3lbs $600

The shocks and skid are something I am doing anyway. So for $1500 plus that I am at 35lbs off. Now the add back ons are E start(10lbs or less with lightweight battery), LED lights 2lbs, better bumpers 2lbs, so net net net is 20lbs off without going crazy on the bank account but I have a tougher more user friendly sled that rides a ton better.

somebody want to enlighten me on how Toms skid is 10 pounds lighter than stock when timbersleds only saves 5 pounds and that is with floats. Somebody's numbers are a little off. That would put the numbers down with nextech's carbon fiber.

 

[AKSNOWRIDER]

you are right terry, I keep seeing threads where you can take 50 pds off for 2 grand..I call BS...it cost cubic dollars to drop weight..if it didnt..the manufacturers would ...same deal with making big power..how fast do you want to spend..

 

[Scott]

The old standard of $100 a pound isn't going to get any less. LOL.
I've seen parts now that cost $150 for every pound dropped.

 

[AKSNOWRIDER]

The old standard of $100 a pound isn't going to get any less. LOL.
I've seen parts now that cost $150 for every pound dropped.

I am thinking more like 3 large per pound...

 

[turboless terry]

Does anyone know, for a fact, how much lighter the evol r shocks are compared to the stock walker evans on the front end?

 

[philsummers21]

i can weigh an evol r if you can weigh a stock one.

 

[turboless terry]

if I can find some time and my nitrous scale, I will take you up on that.