How about our great President!!!

[Mafesto]

Here is what you guys are missing, and you guys seem smart, which is why I can't understand why you aren't getting this.

Health care has become more expensive than any of us feel it should be. I know we agree on that.
That is the problem.
Making some people pay for the insurance of others does not address that core problem.
You are right that politicians are funneling money towards those that can return the favor.
Mandating that everyone gets coverage and inflicting the cost on those who get no option to negotiate those costs only completes their evil plan.
There are many steps that would lower health care costs without moving towards socialism.

I would welcome a proposal from Dr Ben Carson, someone who not only fully understands the medical aspects, but the social ramifications as well.

 

[Idcatman3]

Here is what you guys are missing, and you guys seem smart, which is why I can't understand why you aren't getting this.

Health care has become more expensive than any of us feel it should be. I know we agree on that.
That is the problem.
Making some people pay for the insurance of others does not address that core problem.
You are right that politicians are funneling money towards those that can return the favor.
Mandating that everyone gets coverage and inflicting the cost on those who get no option to negotiate those costs only completes their evil plan.
There are many steps that would lower health care costs without moving towards socialism.

I would welcome a proposal from Dr Ben Carson, someone who not only fully understands the medical aspects, but the social ramifications as well.

People need healthcare. (care, not insurance here) some people would be able to pay, some would not. Should those who cannot pay die due to accident or illness outside their control?
I'd say no.
Given that, people need care regardless of the ability to pay.
Doctors should be paid for their services.

In my opinion, the most efficient way for that to happen, rather than each pool of variously sick people negotiating, which is ostensibly what insurance companies do, is have the whole potential patient pool negotiate together. They get the best deal, while having good outcomes. The doctor gets paid regardless of the ability of an individual patient to pay.

Everyone pays their equal share of the total medical closet for the country, due to the fact that circumstance could easily cause them to be one of the ones needing millions of dollars in care.

No duplicated bureaucracy in multiple insurance companies, one large pool to negotiate.

Your "Great President" can't negotiate his way out of a paper bag and get 51 votes for the healthcare plan that your inept party has had 8 years to perfect. Maybe it's time to admit he's not so great.

Sent from my VS987 using Tapatalk

 

[Mafesto]

People need healthcare. (care, not insurance here) some people would be able to pay, some would not. Should those who cannot pay die due to accident or illness outside their control?
I'd say no.
Given that, people need care regardless of the ability to pay.
Doctors should be paid for their services.

In my opinion, the most efficient way for that to happen, rather than each pool of variously sick people negotiating, which is ostensibly what insurance companies do, is have the whole potential patient pool negotiate together. They get the best deal, while having good outcomes. The doctor gets paid regardless of the ability of an individual patient to pay.

Everyone pays their equal share of the total medical closet for the country, due to the fact that circumstance could easily cause them to be one of the ones needing millions of dollars in care.

No duplicated bureaucracy in multiple insurance companies, one large pool to negotiate.



Sent from my VS987 using Tapatalk

That sure sounds great.
Too bad that we do not live in that perfect world of lollipops, unicorns and rainbows.

Again, your perfect plan does nothing to address why health care is too expensive to start with.
(and it is not drs and nurses compensation)

 

[Bacon]

When an aspirin is $50 and a stay in the hospital for a night is over $1000 that is the problem. Healthcare is a joke. Doctors are terrible at diagnosing disease. It's amazing how they can't figure what you have till it's too late. Insurance will do no good until the cost of care can come down. It's amazing how much you can nagotiate down a hospital bill when you don't have insurance.

 

[James T Kirk]

When an aspirin is $50 and a stay in the hospital for a night is over $1000 that is the problem. Healthcare is a joke. Doctors are terrible at diagnosing disease. It's amazing how they can't figure what you have till it's too late. Insurance will do no good until the cost of care can come down. It's amazing how much you can nagotiate down a hospital bill when you don't have insurance.

Where do you think health care providers will pass that cost on that gets "negotiated " down? They certainly don't eat it-when someone with no insurance has a $1,000,000 cancer treatment bill reduced to $600,000 and they don't even have $6,000 to pay the rest of the system (everyone else) absorbs the cost. $50 Tylenol is nothing new, I recall that phrase being used an awful lot before 2010.

But I thought Donny had a bigly awesome beautiful healthcare plan already figured out during the campaign that would provide wonderful cheap healthcare to all on day 1?? Oh yea, he outright LIED to everyone and none of you seem to care. He never had a plan, didn't and still doesn't have even a fundamental understanding of the system, and you guys are ok with that. That's the real problem. I wonder if he actually has a wonderful plan for tax reform, infrastructure, etc....

 

[Wheel House Motorsports]

Where do you think health care providers will pass that cost on that gets "negotiated " down? They certainly don't eat it-when someone with no insurance has a $1,000,000 cancer treatment bill reduced to $600,000 and they don't even have $6,000 to pay the rest of the system (everyone else) absorbs the cost. $50 Tylenol is nothing new, I recall that phrase being used an awful lot before 2010.

But I thought Donny had a bigly awesome beautiful healthcare plan already figured out during the campaign that would provide wonderful cheap healthcare to all on day 1?? Oh yea, he outright LIED to everyone and none of you seem to care. He never had a plan, didn't and still doesn't have even a fundamental understanding of the system, and you guys are ok with that. That's the real problem. I wonder if he actually has a wonderful plan for tax reform, infrastructure, etc....

Some of us realized it wasn't rain landing on our backs a while ago.. others need a better taste to verify.... more tasting... still not sure, maybe another sample.

I am very open for a discussion of different ways to go about handling all of the issues plaguing society, healthcare, etc etc. Lets work on solving the problems. The first step to that is STOPPING this support for people who literally lie to your face about creating solutions.

The Donald sold this lie that he was full of solutions to the American public hook line and sinker. When your "Plan" IS SO BAD that you can't get it through congress with the cards stacked in your favor, thats how you know your plan sucks, or for that matter isn't really even a plan.

 

[BLITZKRIEG]

Making life easier for the poor is not what made the US the mega power we are.
Everyone should struggle.
The poor should struggle to achieve middle class.
The middle class should struggle to wealthy.
The wealthy should struggle to build empires, in turn providing the opportunities for others to struggle their own way up the ladder.
Making life comfortable for the poor is not helping them, it's enabling them.
We're all happy to help those busting their balls to get by. But I have no compassion for those living on the programs simply because they can.
F_ck socialism and may God bless capitalism.

Anyone that has ever lived on or near a indian reservation can testify to this. If everything is given there is no desire to earn.

 

[Mafesto]

Best analogy! Thank you!

Finally, sombody that gets it.

 

[James T Kirk]

Best analogy! Thank you!

Finally, sombody that gets it.

So you just give Donny your trust and respect when he lies to you and sh$ts all over his promises? You should expect him to earn it too.

I hope you never need to go to the ER with serious injuries and no insurance and no suitcase full of cash, cause with that attitude towards others I'd expect you not to go and make others pay for your bad decisions.

Is it really coming to that??

And besides, if you kicked it who would I argue about stupid sh$t with?

 

[BLITZKRIEG]

So you just give Donny your trust and respect when he lies to you and sh$ts all over his promises? You should expect him to earn it too.

Listen, he was the absolute best candidate, cant imagine the turmoil if she had won, which she didnt cause real working class americans could see the better of the two...so fawk off and deal with it like the rest of us did when obama got in.

 

[BLITZKRIEG]

Now what we have is a society where if you are born into the bottom rungs the gaps up no longer require just hard work, the gaps are so large that it is basically impossible to climb them. Someone who is busting their ***, working 2 jobs to try and get ahead, doing the best they can with what little resources they might have. Their kid gets beat up, hit by a car, whatever, on the way to school and ends up in the ER for a few days and requires a few surgeries. Oh ****, enjoy $100k in debt piled on top of your already unlikely chance of advancement. To bad you don't have insurance. Why don't you get a job that offers it you deadbeat? Oh you have a pre existing condition that basically allows all insurance companys to deny you? Sounds like your problem not mine.
"

A friend of mine who was 28 got hurt while playing football with friends, messed up his neck, had to have surgery. No insurance and he was low income. Had the surgery which cost $60k. Since he was low income with no insurance by the time it was done he only paid $3k. Fairness in wage equality? Fyi, he later strived to be better, switched jobs went thru an apprenticeship, switched jobs again and makes well over $100k.......because he wanted it and had to work for it.
And fyi the only good thing obama did was make it so insurance cant deny you for preexisting conditions.

 

[BLITZKRIEG]

I think what you ment was thank god I was born above those lower gaps in society. **** those guys, they are below me.

Typical bozeman college pc liberal racist remark against a white man whom you know nothing about. You let us all down.

 

[James T Kirk]

Listen, he was the absolute best candidate, cant imagine the turmoil if she had won, which she didnt cause real working class americans could see the better of the two...so fawk off and deal with it like the rest of us did when obama got in.

Absolute best candidate eh? That's a good one, Donald Duck would have been better. Speaking of turmoil, just you wait until mueller is done. The world is laughing at you, even CBC said yesterday that donnys attack on the AG showed a fundamental IGNORANCE of the role of the justice dept.

And about your buddy with the football injury, that was really nice of you to contribute to the additional $97k of his bill thru increased costs on yours over the following years. I bet mafesto kicked in a bit too, just like everyone else on here. You actually think a for profit hospital would write a loss like that off? Oh yea, you believe Donnys stories, so you probably do.

 

[Mafesto]

This debate is entertaining, but I know you guys don't believe the socialist bulls#it you are spewing.
You know full well our country would have never survived had we coddled the lazy in our country's infancy.
Everyone had to pull their own weight for this experiment of democracy to suceed.
What makes anyone think things are different now?
Libbies, softies, lefties or whatever you call yourselves are an anchor which is holding us back from reaching our potential.

 

[BLITZKRIEG]

Absolute best candidate eh? That's a good one, Donald Duck would have been better. Speaking of turmoil, just you wait until mueller is done. The world is laughing at you, even CBC said yesterday that donnys attack on the AG showed a fundamental IGNORANCE of the role of the justice dept.

And about your buddy with the football injury, that was really nice of you to contribute to the additional $97k of his bill thru increased costs on yours over the following years. I bet mafesto kicked in a bit too, just like everyone else on here. You actually think a for profit hospital would write a loss like that off? Oh yea, you believe Donnys stories, so you probably do.

Blah blah more blah about donald.
About my friend and the health care, i never said it was perfect, i only made mention to show that it does NOT put the poor down in the dirt. I agree with mafesto, i have heard Ben Carsons plan and i agree with it, besides the doctors are better to decide a better health care than a politician.

 

[polaris dude]

When an aspirin is $50 and a stay in the hospital for a night is over $1000 that is the problem. Healthcare is a joke. Doctors are terrible at diagnosing disease. It's amazing how they can't figure what you have till it's too late. Insurance will do no good until the cost of care can come down. It's amazing how much you can nagotiate down a hospital bill when you don't have insurance.

Sorry sir, were you trying to submit this post for most ignorant post of the year or were you just posting in this thread?

Comical you are so ready to critique doctors about all being awful at diagnosing, but who or what does it better exactly? When you are having a medical emergency be sure to let the ambulance know you don't want to go to the hospital for care when they can take you to walmart and get your $3 Tylenol and to a local natural medicine guru.

 

[BLITZKRIEG]

This debate is entertaining, but I know you guys don't believe the socialist bulls#it you are spewing.

It is beyond a fact that the younger generation as well as the older brain deads have no clue what true socialism is or the mark it has left on history. It makes me realize that they have not researched the socialist countries of history with ALL their failures and hardships upon their people.

 

[Mafesto]

It is beyond a fact that the younger generation as well as the older brain deads have no clue what true socialism is or the mark it has left on history. It makes me realize that they have not researched the socialist countries of history with ALL their failures and hardships upon their people.

They have simply bought into the whole "the rich are evil" bulls#it.

I will never be wealthy, but resenting those that are would not make my life any better.

Look at the titans of industry.
The Carnegies, the Firestones, the Rockefellers, JP Morgan, Henry Ford, the Vanderbilts etc.
Their ruthless aggression certainly hurt others, but absolutely made the USA a better stronger nation.

Fools like to cling to the fantasy of fairness. It's an illusion that will never exist in this life.
If you welcome the idea of fairness, look to the Christian belief that the meek shall inherit the earth, that it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for the rich through the gates of heaven.
But here on earth you have a better chance of shoving soft butter up a wild cat's a s s with a red hot poker than people being treated fairly.
And if you teach your children otherwise, you are preparing them for failure.

 

[James T Kirk]

It is beyond a fact that the younger generation as well as the older brain deads have no clue what true socialism is or the mark it has left on history. It makes me realize that they have not researched the socialist countries of history with ALL their failures and hardships upon their people.

Actually Canada is pretty sweet... not a lot of hardships and failures here. I sure wouldn't go back to the states these days. and I'm sure you consider us evil socialists.

You guys should travel abroad more (or at all), you might realize there's a lot more to the world than what Fox News says.

 

[Bacon]

Sorry sir, were you trying to submit this post for most ignorant post of the year or were you just posting in this thread?

Comical you are so ready to critique doctors about all being awful at diagnosing, but who or what does it better exactly? When you are having a medical emergency be sure to let the ambulance know you don't want to go to the hospital for care when they can take you to walmart and get your $3 Tylenol and to a local natural medicine guru.

I will stand by my statement. You must be in the medical field. Doctors can fix a broken leg just fine. Have them try and diagnose a disease, well good luck, and I have had plenty of experience with friends and family. I really don't blame doctors. They are brainwashed in college and then bribed by the pharmaceutical companies. There are a few good ones but the majority suck. And I'll take natural medicine way before the crap with three pages of side effects that still doesn't help you.