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How about our great President!!!

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Jean-Luc Picard

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Electoral College & Grand Compromise - The American Way

The electoral college is an antiquity, and why is someone in little old Montana’s vote more important and should count for more than anyone else’s?

I agree that the Electoral College system is outdated. BUT I completely agree with the principles it was founded on. Little old Rhode Island, New Hampshire & Vermont didn't want to be left with no voice based on New York & Pennsylvania's size & potential for all kinds of population growth. A strictly popular vote would give urban locales an unfair sway in who is in power. The compromise they came up with worked very well for at least 150 years. Its what has made the USA unique - we come up with some of the most convoluted ways of doing things that strangely seem to work.

I do think it is now officially broken though. But I don't think we should throw the baby out with the bathwater. The same concerns that RI & NH & VT are if anything, bigger & more important now than they were a quarter of a millenium ago.

I wrote an op-ed piece way back when Obama was first elected (it was equally broken then) with some ideas on how to change the current system to give Democrats in Idaho & Republicans in New York a more equal voice. Here's a run down of what I think would fix our Presidential election system:

  1. Limit the Presidential election length. As it is, we have 2 freakin years of campaigning all told. Absurd. Chop it into 6 months. 3 months for Primaries & 3 months for General Election.
  2. Eliminate the winner take all Electoral college system.
    1. Winner takes all "senator" electoral votes (meaning 2).
    2. Remaining "house" electoral votes (Idaho has 3, California has like - 80 or something) are split based on percentage of popular vote received by each candidate. (I believe Maine & Louisiana already do something like this).
  3. In the original spirit of the electoral college, eliminate the unfair attention given to "swing states" by doing the following
    1. Create 2 NATIONAL primaries.
      1. Any state that voted 60% or more for one party in the previous Pres. Election cycle gets to be in the FIRST primary, thereby giving Democrats in Idaho & Republicans in California an actual voice.
      2. Swing states vote after the initial primary & probably after some candidates have dropped off. They'll still naturally get more attention in the general election, but hey..
    2. In limiting the whole election cycle to 6 months (I'd even be willing to stretch it to 12) More attention can be given to non swing states.
  4. 3rd party candidates be given a fair shake. Currently any "public funding" available for Presidential campaigning is currently only available to parties who received 5% or more of the popular vote in the previous presidential election cycle. That hasn't even occurred in my lifetime. What do the Republican & Democratic parties even need "public funding" for? Disqualify major parties from any special funding & give it to them. Or just eliminate the public funding option entirely. The last person to use public funding (to my knowledge) was McCain, and we all know how that worked out for him.
  5. Limit Presidential (and every other political) campaign spending to a reasonable amount. Even if you cap it at $5 per registered voter, that still is a ridiculous number. Buying the presidency should not be a thing. Aside from the election of DJT, EVERY election since they've kept track of spending has been won by the candidate who shelled out the most money. And with Trump, it could be argued that the amount of air time given by the media made up for $'s. Though I don't have much of a problem with that. They were a loudspeaker for his brand, whether they meant it or not. Maybe they'll learn from that, but probably not.
So... Why not another grand compromise to give everyone the voice the deserve? I'll tell you why not - The system as it is keeps those in power there & they aren't about to change it. If you think this idea has merrit, forward it on to your congressman. See if they give it more than a passing glance.
 
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J
Jan 15, 2010
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I agree that the Electoral College system is outdated. BUT I completely agree with the principles it was founded on. Little old Rhode Island, New Hampshire & Vermont didn't want to be left with no voice based on New York & Pennsylvania's size & potential for all kinds of population growth. A strictly popular vote would give urban locales an unfair sway in who is in power. The compromise they came up with worked very well for at least 150 years. Its what has made the USA unique - we come up with some of the most convoluted ways of doing things that strangely seem to work.


I do think it is now officially broken though. But I don't think we should throw the baby out with the bathwater. The same concerns that RI & NH & VT are if anything, bigger & more important now than they were a quarter of a millenium ago.



I wrote an op-ed piece way back when Obama was first elected (it was equally broken then) with some ideas on how to change the current system to give Democrats in Idaho & Republicans in New York a more equal voice. Here's a run down of what I think would fix our Presidential election system:

  1. Limit the Presidential election length. As it is, we have 2 freakin years of campaigning all told. Absurd. Chop it into 6 months. 3 months for Primaries & 3 months for General Election.
  2. Eliminate the winner take all Electoral college system.
    1. Winner takes all "senator" electoral votes (meaning 2).
    2. Remaining "house" electoral votes (Idaho has 3, California has like - 80 or something) are split based on percentage of popular vote received by each candidate. (I believe Maine & Louisiana already do something like this).
  3. In the original spirit of the electoral college, eliminate the unfair attention given to "swing states" by doing the following
    1. Create 2 NATIONAL primaries.
      1. Any state that voted 60% or more for one party in the previous Pres. Election cycle gets to be in the FIRST primary, thereby giving Democrats in Idaho & Republicans in California an actual voice.
      2. Swing states vote after the initial primary & probably after some candidates have dropped off. They'll still naturally get more attention in the general election, but hey..
    2. In limiting the whole election cycle to 6 months (I'd even be willing to stretch it to 12) More attention can be given to non swing states.
  4. 3rd party candidates be given a fair shake. Currently any "public funding" available for Presidential campaigning is currently only available to parties who received 5% or more of the popular vote in the previous presidential election cycle. That hasn't even occurred in my lifetime. What do the Republican & Democratic parties even need "public funding" for? Disqualify major parties from any special funding & give it to them. Or just eliminate the public funding option entirely. The last person to use public funding (to my knowledge) was McCain, and we all know how that worked out for him.
  5. Limit Presidential (and every other political) campaign spending to a reasonable amount. Even if you cap it at $5 per registered voter, that still is a ridiculous number. Buying the presidency should not be a thing. Aside from the election of DJT, EVERY election since they've kept track of spending has been won by the candidate who shelled out the most money. And with Trump, it could be argued that the amount of air time given by the media made up for $'s. Though I don't have much of a problem with that. They were a loudspeaker for his brand, whether they meant it or not. Maybe they'll learn from that, but probably not.
So... Why not another grand compromise to give everyone the voice the deserve? I'll tell you why not - The system as it is keeps those in power there & they aren't about to change it. If you think this idea has merrit, forward it on to your congressman. See if they give it more than a passing glance.


Why make it so complicated? You want to give a Democrat in Idaho or a Republican in California a voice? Popular vote. Otherwise it’ll always be skewed one way or the other. If it’s set up like that or how it currently is all the campaigns target specific areas only to ensure the small targets are hit.
 

Jean-Luc Picard

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Aug 25, 2017
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Blackfoot, Idaho
www.bennyfifeaudio.com
Why make it so complicated? You want to give a Democrat in Idaho or a Republican in California a voice? Popular vote. Otherwise it’ll always be skewed one way or the other. If it’s set up like that or how it currently is all the campaigns target specific areas only to ensure the small targets are hit.

Because we don't want a popular vote.

I for one, not to mention most people on this forum, I think, and even the American people as a whole, really don't want just the big cities & the issues that they face to be the only thing that drives our nation. You go to a popular vote, no candidate will pay any attention to anywhere but big cities. Farewell Heartland.

The Electoral college system is in place because of that. I think it needs revamped is all. I think were we to follow the course I laid out, yes, there would still be skewing, but it would bring a lot more moderate views to the table. It's installing more checks & balances. That's what the constitution was about. Majority rule, minority rights kind of thing.
 

Jean-Luc Picard

Well-known member
Premium Member
Aug 25, 2017
948
805
93
Blackfoot, Idaho
www.bennyfifeaudio.com
Why make it so complicated? You want to give a Democrat in Idaho or a Republican in California a voice? Popular vote. Otherwise it’ll always be skewed one way or the other. If it’s set up like that or how it currently is all the campaigns target specific areas only to ensure the small targets are hit.


Plus. It's really not complicated. I summed it up in 5 points, taking less than 1 page.



The Affordable Care Act is complicated. The tax code is complicated. This is not.
 
J
Jan 15, 2010
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Because we don't want a popular vote.

I for one, not to mention most people on this forum, I think, and even the American people as a whole, really don't want just the big cities & the issues that they face to be the only thing that drives our nation. You go to a popular vote, no candidate will pay any attention to anywhere but big cities. Farewell Heartland.

The Electoral college system is in place because of that. I think it needs revamped is all. I think were we to follow the course I laid out, yes, there would still be skewing, but it would bring a lot more moderate views to the table. It's installing more checks & balances. That's what the constitution was about. Majority rule, minority rights kind of thing.


When have I ever been concerned about what most people on this forum think?
 
F

freekweet mods

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Honestly,I don't understand the electoral college thing. This seems to me like something that really does not make each individual vote count when voting for president. Basically limiting your power to the state level. Kinda like -you can play on the team until we get to tournament then your benched.
 

Mafesto

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3 years ago we were all skeptical, but now even after seeing it with their own eyes many still refuse to accept it.

DiN5BzxU0AANmzd.jpg
 

Jean-Luc Picard

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United ??? of America...

Honestly,I don't understand the electoral college thing. This seems to me like something that really does not make each individual vote count when voting for president. Basically limiting your power to the state level. Kinda like -you can play on the team until we get to tournament then your benched.


That's exactly what it was designed to do. That's why we are the United STATES of America, not the United 'People' or 'Individuals' of America. And I still agree with that arrangement. Reducing everything to the aggregate of the entire nation means you get the distilled opinion of the whole. I prefer reducing everything to the aggregate of a region (state) and then having representatives of those states work together to come up with the best solutions. Yes, its a little screwy, 'cest la vie'.

Though going back to the founding of the country, the presidential election was really left entirely up to the electors in the electoral college. Plus, Senators weren't elected by the populace either.
 
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Jean-Luc Picard

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When have I ever been concerned about what most people on this forum think?
Much as I have appreciated your comments & views, on this one, I'm with Mafesto. You're in Canada. Secondly -
I for one, not to mention most people on this forum, I think, and even the American people as a whole, really don't want just the big cities & the issues that they face to be the only thing that drives our nation.
You missed the bold part. And again, you are in Canada. Shatner is Canadian, so I guess it makes sense. :face-icon-small-win

On a completely different note...

I considered using Benjamin Lafayette Sisko as my moniker, but decided what with race and DS9 being substantially less main-stream, went with JLP instead.
 
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Big10inch

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Really? Which things on that list do liberal support? Libertarians, yes, most of that appeals to my libertarian sensibilities but the liberals wanted Hillary, voted for obamacare, etc etc etc.
 

Jean-Luc Picard

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Are you serious?
These in particular I think he could use some serious work in:

We want Obabmacare repealed
Well, they spent months trying to do it & to Trump's credit, he cajoled & threatened republicans to come up with something they could agree on. They did at least kill the mandate part of it. But the biggest reason it needs repealed is because of the way it was passed in the first place. Anything as broad as the Affordable Care Act that passes without one Republican (and the same goes for anything passed republicans w/o 1 democrat) is obviously a bad law. Cross the freakin' aisle, throw out party affiliation, and come up with something that solves problems, not creates more.



Hillary Belongs in Prison
So Investigate her. And charge her with something. I don't doubt there's probably something there. Instead of just using her 2 years after the election to deflect the next point.

We are fed up with corruption in D.C.

So... calling an investigation into your own campaign a witch hunt is not corrupt? And waiting & waiting to fire Scott Pruett, despite some obvious wasting of public funds, either intentionally, or through gross incompetence.

We want our jobs back from overseas.
So you rescue a Chinese company... Uh, yeah sure. Jobs have gone overseas because its what the American people have voted for with their pocketbooks.


We are tired of illegal immigrants
Maybe he should do an audit of all the housekeeping positions at all his hotels if he's really tired of illegal immigrants.


We want Isis eliminated, not "contained"
Has he actually made any headway here at all? Not that I'm agreeing with the past 2 presidents on their stance on this at all, but BHO was sending drone strikes into Pakistan 6 weeks into his presidency. If anything, I actually applaud Trump that we seem to be doing less in the middle east, but that is not eliminating ISIS as stated in the goal.



We like the fact that he is self funded and owes no favors.
Aside from Shareholders & the Trump Family. That's what he's most interested in making great again.



We want our vets taken care of.
Again, has there really been any progress here? Aside from Legal Immigrant veterans getting booted out of the military for no reason.


Based on that run down, even giving him full points for the couple on here that I could see a little progress, that still puts him @ about 50%. Which means he ranks right up with the past 30 years of presidents I suppose.
 
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bholmlate

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Please stay tuned for next major deflection being drawn up in the White House war room as we speak. On the agenda will be eliminating top level security clearances being revoked followed by Big G. doing appearances on all news outlets. Get the popcorn ready this one will be a Yuge!!!!!for sure
 
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