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going to build an abomination!

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ideas

was thinking about this again on my long slippery no visability drive home from school today, and thought about a jr 120 as a mini platform to work from. it has bars mounted to the top of the forks and uses a slide rail style rear suspension. We can build a new frame around this design I think. what do you think?
 
???????????

was thinking about this again on my long slippery no visability drive home from school today, and thought about a jr 120 as a mini platform to work from. it has bars mounted to the top of the forks and uses a slide rail style rear suspension. We can build a new frame around this design I think. what do you think?

good place to start! the 120 has a custom built cvt and weird steer stem. I don't know if you would be able to fit a normal secondary in the same configuration. something to look at though.
 
pics?

roo, are you back to work already? hows your project coming....any pics yet

still getting parts together, building jig to hold frame and suspension. soon as I have something that looks "like something" will post some pics. anyone have a drive and jackshaft? steel
 
good thai!!!!!!!!!!

welcome by the house anytime. I was so happy that paul and laura joined us, they have been with us since the beginning and are great friends. What a nice evening of hawk talk. You seem to have a significant background in designing some pretty amazing things. I'm sure you abomonation of the hawk will be a great project and a ton of fun.

Tam

was a great evening, thanks!
 
hey, tom here from alaska toy rental, finished the 800 R hawk.
Thinking about building the same idea you are talking about, external suspension pro length design, fork applicatable dirt bike hawk. Got some good ideas, would like to talk with you. can reach me at 888-649-1880.. have you thought about a diamond drive system with no jack shaft like the arctic cat? straight into the chain drive off your clutch to reduce weight and less complications in the mechanical areal? Thomas
 
diamond drive?

hey, tom here from alaska toy rental, finished the 800 R hawk.
Thinking about building the same idea you are talking about, external suspension pro length design, fork applicatable dirt bike hawk. Got some good ideas, would like to talk with you. can reach me at 888-649-1880.. have you thought about a diamond drive system with no jack shaft like the arctic cat? straight into the chain drive off your clutch to reduce weight and less complications in the mechanical areal? Thomas

first thing thought about was losing jackshaft, if possible. the biggest hangup with my theory is space. will find some pics of this drive system and give you a call on wed. really relying on all you slednecks for input!!!!
 
How about using the BMW motorcycle Front suspension called the Duo Lever:
-This way there is only one conventional shock and a very rigid fork:

Explained:

The Duolever front wheel suspension is kinematically regarded as a square joint, in which two trailing links made of forged steel are attached via rolling bearings to the frame. These trailing links, which visually resemble a conventional fork, guide the extremely torsionally rigid wheel carrier made of aluminium permanent mould casting. A central strut, which adjusts the suspension and damping, is linked to the lower of the two trailing links, and rests against the frame.

A trapezoidal shear joint mounted to the control head and the wheel carrier is coupled with the handlebar. This shear joint transmits the steering movements. Thus, the Duolever design in contrast to the telefork does not need sliding and fixed tubes. At the same time, it decouples the steering as well as the damping more consistently than the proven telelever. In the end the rider profits from a maximum of comfort and road grip, which have reached a yet unknown level, due to this decoupling of the steering and the suspension.

The advantage of this most innovative front wheel suspension on the motorcycle market at present is its torsional rigidity. The BMW Motorrad Duolever front wheel suspension is not influenced by negative forces in the same manner as a conventional telefork whose fixed and take-off tubes twist laterally as well as longitudinally during jounce/rebound and steering.
Its two trailing links absorb the forces resulting from the jounce/rebound and keep the wheel carrier stable. Thus, any torsioning is excluded and the front wheel suspension is very precise. The steering commands of the rider are converted directly and the feedback from the front wheel is transparent in all driving conditions.

A kinematical anti-dive effect is additionally achieved, just as for the Telelever, due to a well-aimed arrangement of the trailing link bearings. While a conventional telefork during strong braking manoeuvres jounces heavily or "locks", the Duolever still has sufficient spring travel remaining in this situation and therefore the rider can still brake into the corner extremely late yet directionally stable.

The obstacle-avoidance manoeuvre of the front wheel when riding over uneven surfaces can be converted with the Duolever similar to the behaviour of a telefork. In connection with the low unsprung masses and the small breakaway forces of the system, this results in more sensitive and comfortable response characteristics.

tech_duolever.gif vis_item_duolever.jpg
 
great info!

How about using the BMW motorcycle Front suspension called the Duo Lever:
-This way there is only one conventional shock and a very rigid fork:

Explained:

The Duolever front wheel suspension is kinematically regarded as a square joint, in which two trailing links made of forged steel are attached via rolling bearings to the frame. These trailing links, which visually resemble a conventional fork, guide the extremely torsionally rigid wheel carrier made of aluminium permanent mould casting. A central strut, which adjusts the suspension and damping, is linked to the lower of the two trailing links, and rests against the frame.

A trapezoidal shear joint mounted to the control head and the wheel carrier is coupled with the handlebar. This shear joint transmits the steering movements. Thus, the Duolever design in contrast to the telefork does not need sliding and fixed tubes. At the same time, it decouples the steering as well as the damping more consistently than the proven telelever. In the end the rider profits from a maximum of comfort and road grip, which have reached a yet unknown level, due to this decoupling of the steering and the suspension.

The advantage of this most innovative front wheel suspension on the motorcycle market at present is its torsional rigidity. The BMW Motorrad Duolever front wheel suspension is not influenced by negative forces in the same manner as a conventional telefork whose fixed and take-off tubes twist laterally as well as longitudinally during jounce/rebound and steering.
Its two trailing links absorb the forces resulting from the jounce/rebound and keep the wheel carrier stable. Thus, any torsioning is excluded and the front wheel suspension is very precise. The steering commands of the rider are converted directly and the feedback from the front wheel is transparent in all driving conditions.

A kinematical anti-dive effect is additionally achieved, just as for the Telelever, due to a well-aimed arrangement of the trailing link bearings. While a conventional telefork during strong braking manoeuvres jounces heavily or "locks", the Duolever still has sufficient spring travel remaining in this situation and therefore the rider can still brake into the corner extremely late yet directionally stable.

The obstacle-avoidance manoeuvre of the front wheel when riding over uneven surfaces can be converted with the Duolever similar to the behaviour of a telefork. In connection with the low unsprung masses and the small breakaway forces of the system, this results in more sensitive and comfortable response characteristics.

cool stuff, way over my head. my understanding of bike/sled/hawk geometry is very limeted, I plan on building what I think will work based on the limeted knowledge and budget that I posses. the end product "WILL WORK" but how well is another question. hopefully it will atleast inspire someone with a better understanding to take the next step!!!!! thanks for the input it is really cool to see that there are others putting time and energy twards the single ski evolution!!!
 
How about using the BMW motorcycle Front suspension called the Duo Lever:
-This way there is only one conventional shock and a very rigid fork:

Explained:

The Duolever front wheel suspension is kinematically regarded as a square joint, in which two trailing links made of forged steel are attached via rolling bearings to the frame. These trailing links, which visually resemble a conventional fork, guide the extremely torsionally rigid wheel carrier made of aluminium permanent mould casting. A central strut, which adjusts the suspension and damping, is linked to the lower of the two trailing links, and rests against the frame.

A trapezoidal shear joint mounted to the control head and the wheel carrier is coupled with the handlebar. This shear joint transmits the steering movements. Thus, the Duolever design in contrast to the telefork does not need sliding and fixed tubes. At the same time, it decouples the steering as well as the damping more consistently than the proven telelever. In the end the rider profits from a maximum of comfort and road grip, which have reached a yet unknown level, due to this decoupling of the steering and the suspension.

The advantage of this most innovative front wheel suspension on the motorcycle market at present is its torsional rigidity. The BMW Motorrad Duolever front wheel suspension is not influenced by negative forces in the same manner as a conventional telefork whose fixed and take-off tubes twist laterally as well as longitudinally during jounce/rebound and steering.
Its two trailing links absorb the forces resulting from the jounce/rebound and keep the wheel carrier stable. Thus, any torsioning is excluded and the front wheel suspension is very precise. The steering commands of the rider are converted directly and the feedback from the front wheel is transparent in all driving conditions.

A kinematical anti-dive effect is additionally achieved, just as for the Telelever, due to a well-aimed arrangement of the trailing link bearings. While a conventional telefork during strong braking manoeuvres jounces heavily or "locks", the Duolever still has sufficient spring travel remaining in this situation and therefore the rider can still brake into the corner extremely late yet directionally stable.

The obstacle-avoidance manoeuvre of the front wheel when riding over uneven surfaces can be converted with the Duolever similar to the behaviour of a telefork. In connection with the low unsprung masses and the small breakaway forces of the system, this results in more sensitive and comfortable response characteristics.

So thats why my GS handles like its on rails...
 
thanks!

hey, tom here from alaska toy rental, finished the 800 R hawk.
Thinking about building the same idea you are talking about, external suspension pro length design, fork applicatable dirt bike hawk. Got some good ideas, would like to talk with you. can reach me at 888-649-1880.. have you thought about a diamond drive system with no jack shaft like the arctic cat? straight into the chain drive off your clutch to reduce weight and less complications in the mechanical areal? Thomas

huge props to tom!!!!!!!!! diamond drive system is a must for anyone looking to build a one ski machine. frees up a ton of space that would get eaten up by jackshaft and belt or chain drive. also gives you options for motor/secondary configuration.
anyone else holding onto any ideas? (if not super top secret) would welcome all to give your 2 cents!
 
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cad?

Hey RudeAwakening,

I do CAD every day and would like to donate CAD and Design time / help to you.

-Let me know how / what ya need

Gary

-Sanity is relative; here in the asylum is where I belong

will be looking for someone to do a drawing of the frame when done, interested?
after fab, before powder coat. ways off but would be cool to know someone was up for it.
 
Due to some, that thought the Duo Lever Suspension explanation was to long, perhaps I should simplify it;
-Think of one side of a modern SUV or Trucks (small cars use McPherson Strut) front suspension a-arm_img.jpg
Now see the Upper and Lower control arms with a shock in the middle?
-Envision you take the tire off, rotate the suspension 90 deg's to the front, raise and attach this to the SnowHawk. Attach a Rigid Fork / One Arm?? (of your design) with a Single Ski onto this suspension.
-Now instead of the fork tubes moving up and down, the Control Arms move up and down with the rigid Fork. in this way you only have one Shock. One shock out of the snow, that is much easier to adjust and rebuild / shim or put the proper spring on for your weight and won't flex or bend as two tubes do, has many, many upgrades in control and performance which has plagued Twin Tube front suspension since it was designed.....................
---How's this for Abomination???????????????????????????????
-Just trying to get modern ideas on the hawk................
I really dig what you're doing, keep it up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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edited first post

will continue to edit first post, try and keep it all in one place!
 
ideas

check out this motorcycle for fresh Ideas. www.motoczysz.com There is some great info about this bike design that will change the world. I know there were some great articles in some mags that give better descriptions of some things.
 
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