GET FACTS STRAIGHT! Snowest Misleading Readers about Cooke City.

[LSB]

Some of the stuff I'm saying is obviously going over your head. No one is talking about plowing all of 212.

What would you have said if you had lived (excuse me, been a visitor) here BEFORE the era of snowmobiles? Would you have supported locals then who were against "change". Would you have accused the people who wanted to take advantage of the snowmobile as "evil, greedy people with a masterplan for securing their personal wealth". Step back and realize your hippocracy.

Im not going to publish names, but the survey is there, don't be lazy go look it up.

The decade I have given to this town is apparently a flash in the pan to you.

Your comments are truly funny. One of your main sources for information (its obvious) and a true "old school resident" as you put it, while they might be against the plowing, were all for having the cell tower on their property. Its funny to watch peoples opinions on "change" differ from one issue to the next.

I'm confused as to why you live in Bozeman, so close to stores and amenities. Shouldn't you sell everything you own, buy a leaky tent, hike deep into the mountains and hermit yourself away? Why do you even have the internet? Again, you want Cooke City to be exactly what you have in mind, exactly when you have in mind. Then you leave and go home to your microwave and internet.

Ok I'm done ranting with you. You my friend are definitely a fringe element, not the norm.

ps. thanks for all the negative reps!

 

[LSB]

This is for the crowds, on me!

 

[khogan]

I live in Bozeman....because that is where I make my living to support my sledding addiction. You, live in Cooke City because your mommy owns a motel that you apparently "run". When you step outside of parents place, go out into the big bad world to actually make a living for yourself then maybe I will have some empathy for you.

Post the names and we will ALL see and know who supports this radical change. Let me know the names of the motels, gas stations, and restaurants that preside there year around and support this.

 

[LSB]

I think your language and attitude tells a lot about who you are. And what does "run" mean, have you ever tried to "run" anything besides your mouth?

 

[firecatguy]

Nothing good can come out of plowing the road. Number 1, there is a huge cost to simply plow that last 9 miles as it has the most snow. 2, there is not enough room in Cooke to park all of the rigs that currently park at Pilot Creek. Main street will be lined with enclosed trailers. Snowplowing will be a B^%$&, access to bars, restaurants and hotels will suck. I personally like to park my sled outside my room, that will be gone as there will be a rig from MN, WI, ND parked there.



I know myself being a property owner in Cooke does not want this.

so you will have rigs from Mn parked in YOUR yard???

I think this is a great Idea!!!just hope the parking and the trail can be worked out!!!

the snowies have a lodge you ride in and ride out and wont do that again!!!!I drive in to Cooke always wanted to try the pk lot but we like to get loaded the night before we leave and leave early am to drive home!!!!hate to load sleds at 430am

 

[skidoorulz]

OK I'mback to add to this discussion. Everyone has their points but I sure do not like it boiling down to name calling. What I find interesting is a man who lives in Bozeman is against the plowing of the road. He drives in from the west and does not want to see it plowed. I come (came) from the east and do not want to see it plowed. There is no disputing the fact that you can access Lulu and Daisy trail using the Soda Butte trail. The bad thing about that is the soda butte trail is narrow and winding and that trail will have everyone who comes and goes to town on it which in my opinion will make it very dangerous especially given the throttle jockeys and trail racers that come to Cooke. What I am and sure khdgen is concerned about is the loss of trail connecting to the Top of the World after the Lulu trail. Where will it be ran? If memory serves me there is an old road through there some where but would it be feasable to use? IMHO the Miller trail is not even an option to access Daisy and Lulu. On it's best day that trail is crap given the mostly southern exposure it gets and I have always cussed myself everytime I had a brain fart and came back to town that way.
Now LSB it is your turn. Convince me why it would be best to plow. How would that enhanc the wintertime experiance for anyone? Do not use the obvious, maybe more revenue for the business people, better emergency response ( you are in MT no law is going to come in from WY that will still come from Park county.) The expense would be enormous to plow the 10 miles, even though you say they already plow 100 of it. Stop and think about it. It would take 4 passes to plow it right at least maybe 6, that is 40 to 60 miles on a plow truck at what 6 to 8 dollars a mile in truck cost? That is 320 to 480 dolars then figure the pay the driver gets. Probably close to 20 dollars and hour if not more for 4 to 6 hours of plowing that is 80 to 120 dollars so now we are up to 400 to 600 dollars everytime it is plowed, not to mention anyother expenses incurred. Now lets say he plows it 40 times in the season and you know that is a very low guess, he would be out everyday maintaing it. 40 times 600 is 24000. That is a lot of money in my book and as a taxpayer I am not willing to shoulder that expense to plow a road that in my memory has never ever been plowed in the wintertime. Someone correct me if I am wrong. I do seem to remember the people of Cooke opening the road earlier than the Park Service was willing to do years ago but I do not beleive it was to bring people to town because everyone knows that does not happen until the pass has been opened on Memorial day weekend. I beleive is was to provide residents and business people faster access to Billings in the spring to gear up for the summer season and years ago there was not as big of a spring ride fad as ther is now so there was no need to keep it buried in snow. This has been a long post so it is your turn. Convince me.

 

[summithd]

Robert,

You say you support this movement to grow business in town? So it is quite obvious that businesses in Cooke (maybe not all) must be hurting in the winter season which results in this initiative being pushed, more so every year? Why on earth would anyone in their right mind want this otherwise...like most things in life, it comes down to $$$. I honestly would be on the same path if I owned a struggling business in Cooke, so I really can't blame you or anyone else that are in this position, it is common sense for you and others to put forth your best effort in making this happen. DISCLAIMER: I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA THE FINANCIAL STATUS OF YOUR BUSINESS OR ANY OTHERS IN COOKE CITY...I'm just trying to think of the most logical reason that anyone would be for this! Please enlighten me with any reason beyond emergency services and $$$, cause I'm at a loss!

Maybe it comes down to too many businesses being open in the winter season?? Not enough warm bodies to fill the bar stools or motel rooms. It is a harsh economy and the cost of snowmobiling just keeps going up!

I also would like to see which businesses in Cooke are actually behind this (I can probably name a good portion of them without much thought...)

I admit, I am a weekend tourist to Cooke City and I value every moment I spend snowmobiling there, therefore I am obviously against your initiative. I would hate to see this area become completely over run with scores of winter tourists and eventually put the already small riding area to waste! Cooke City is what it is for a reason.

Don't get me wrong...I respect your opinion on this matter, I just don't agree with it. I'm sure I'll be seeing you soon.

Regards,
Ted

http://www.yellowstoneinsider.com/20110506770/news/articles/cooke-city-plowing-could-boost-yellowstone-wintertime-access.php

 

[Backcountrypro]

I personally would like the see the road not plowed.....maybe the road to the west only open two days a week also! The best part about Cooke City is its remote location, I don't want to see Cooke City become another West Yellowstone.

 

[unemployed]

I quit riding Cooke years ago. It is as bad as West Yellowstone over run with tourists with bulging pocketbooks and bulging egos(my turbo is bigger than yours wah). YNP has no reason to plow the road and won't anytime soon(shrinking budgets and all). State of Montana plowing- doubt it expense vs return. The increased tax revenue would be miniscule at best. Wyoming plowing again there would be no tax revenue for them. May even a tax decrease as no one would buy those tax stamps they try and sell you(license) or pay those stupid tickets you get when you don't buy that tax stamp and get caught. I will be crucified for saying this but as a general rule Montana residents see very little gain from tourism and I can only speak for myself but could truly care less if nonresidents had any access to Montana outdoor recreation. They have ruined access to our prime hunting, fishing, and offroad areas.

 

[LSB]

I can respect all the civilized discussions and those of you that raised points through that method. Rather than hit all those points again, I have tried to write a LOT of info in the OP and also on the FB page. Read all those if your interested, otherwise you may not change your mind, and that's fine too. We are all going to disagree on things in life, but it should be done with a little civility.

I do want to make one thing STRAIGHT that seems to have been lost on some. NO ONE and I repeat NO ONE is wanting to simply plow the road as it is being portrayed. There are just two camps here 1) Those that are entirely against it and don't want to try anything and 2) Those who want to gain our highway (we pay taxes on) while also maintaining a snowmobile route(paid for by stickers), solving parking issues, etc. It CAN be better than before.

I can sympathize with the feelings that some have with Cooke being overrun but in recent years that hasn't been so much the case. From a business perspective those days were good, obviously from a riders it made it a little more difficult.

Some people here seem to want to viciously attack businesses for being just that businesses. I bet they are very conservative everywhere else, just not when it comes to Cooke apparently?

Ok Im done with this thread, I can't add anymore to it. If any of you guys want to question me about a particular aspect of something I wrote that you don't understand just pm me or even call me. Discussion is good.

 

[hockeyb4]

I have been reading this thread as well as the article that snowest published. I have lived in northern wyo and now billings. I also have lived in Laramie at the base of the snowies and I can tell you first hand that there is a significant amount of money that cooke and northern wyo are missing due to the restricted access to cooke from the east. Rather than bicker about what riding we will lose as locals we need to look at the big picture. Don't get me wrong Nothing I dislike more than "flatlanders" tearing up our good snow but I can say this the people that come in and ride from out of state for the most part are not the troublesome trailracers and such that they are stereotyped as.
As snowmobilers we need to look a the betterment of our sport as a whole not making it into a elitist "we are better than you because we live/ride out here" attitude. We need to look at growing our sport and getting more people involved and keep a unified front because the opposition to our sport is growing daily.
Just my .2

 

[woodzy]

I have been reading this thread as well as the article that snowest published. I have lived in northern wyo and now billings. I also have lived in Laramie at the base of the snowies and I can tell you first hand that there is a significant amount of money that cooke and northern wyo are missing due to the restricted access to cooke from the east. Rather than bicker about what riding we will lose as locals we need to look at the big picture. Don't get me wrong Nothing I dislike more than "flatlanders" tearing up our good snow but I can say this the people that come in and ride from out of state for the most part are not the troublesome trailracers and such that they are stereotyped as.
As snowmobilers we need to look a the betterment of our sport as a whole not making it into a elitist "we are better than you because we live/ride out here" attitude. We need to look at growing our sport and getting more people involved and keep a unified front because the opposition to our sport is growing daily.
Just my .2

Good post, but raggin' on flatlanders when you are from Billings and "your snow"?? lmao

 

[Blk88GT]

...the people that come in and ride from out of state for the most part are not the troublesome trailracers and such that they are stereotyped as.
As snowmobilers we need to look a the betterment of our sport as a whole not making it into a elitist "we are better than you because we live/ride out here" attitude. We need to look at growing our sport and getting more people involved and keep a unified front because the opposition to our sport is growing daily.

Thank you!

 

[hockeyb4]

Not intended to be ragging on flatlanders. that was a poor choice of words i ment people that are not from the area. I am currently living in Billings but I was born and raised in Northern Wyoming

 

[B C]

Too bad this thread turned ugly and personal, there's no need for it. It's a tactic Liberals use quite often, they run out of facts to support their argument and start personal attacks. Some people's hypocrisy knows no bounds.

Last time I checked we were still practicing capitalism in this country, well mostly anyway.

 

[WyoBoy1000]

I don't have time to read the thread, but the road should be opened with a trail along side it. I know many think there are to many people up there as it is, Well that's not there fault or ours its the governments. I would like to see one real reason why we can't ride wilderness and what we really hurt. When summer comes you can't tell we where there. This is why it needs to be opened, we need as many sledders as possible to fight for our cause. With the way things are going if the road isn't opened the next step will be to lock us out. The wilderness used to not be wilderness and you could ride for miles. The more sledders up there the less likely they can shut it down.
I have seen the increase in sleds up there as I ride Cooke at least 3 times a month and up to 8. But I have always found untracked snow and new places. 95% of the people up there don't ride like we do and many times I never even see sleds (I can hear them once in a while). Welcome new sledders (even flat landers) or lose it all.

I grew up in North WY and live in Red lodge now, it would be great to be able to drive to town and unload and even better for the times one stays the night. No more packing stuff in on the sleds for a nights stay and more time on the hill. Let alone the gas, I burn 2 gallons or more beating the trail in, that prob another 1hr of riding on the hill.

 

[TRS]

If the road is plowed the trail system as we know it today will cease. Because of the Canadian Lynx problem there is a no net gain in motorized trails on National Forest Lands. At our commissioner meeting regarding the plowing Terry Root (Shoshone Forest) said we are trading one motorized use for another. If it is plowed we lose that link,trail, to Cooke. If at some time they find it is not economically feasible to continue plowing the road and stop they will not reinstate the trail.
Who is going to pay for the plowing or the EIS study for the parking area and connecting trail? I am told the EIS it is at least a seven year adventure. Where will you park the 150 trailers(Pilot capacity) in Cooke? How about the Tour Buss's they are proposing if the road is plowed. This winter in Cooke there was basically one lane open for travel. There is a problem with snow storage. Where will you find an area large enough to accommodate 150 rigs and snow storage that would mirror the plowed 15 acres that makes up Pilot? Will the road be plowed 24/7 in case there is a need to evacuate Cooke? How will the avalanche danger from Cooke to the state line along US 212 be mitigated? The Chief Joseph Highway in Wyoming is a Class B highway. No plowing after 5:00pm will this be addressed?
We have been informed if the road is plowed it is probable the Forest Service will not renew our permit. Wyoming State Trails will stop grooming. Loss of trail and funding. Over half of registration sales for the Beartooth area are sold in Cooke.
We almost lost the trail on the Beartooth side a few years ago to safety. The canyon, below the lake, had slide issues. We met on site with Forest Service officials and Wyoming Trails personal. Grooming it wide enough kept the trail open. With no grooming in the Beartooths the canyon will be impassable. Will they close down access for good?
There will be a substantial increase in vehicle travel along the Chief Joseph Highway. This is critical winter elk and deer habitat. Has there been a study to see how it will effect our already devastated herds.
There are many questions yet to be answered. I am not saying this is an anti snowmobiling move. It just makes it easier for them to reach their objective. Divided we fail. I am looking at the long term ramifications of plowing the road.
I have been very instrumental in developing the trail system in the Beartooths. In the early 90's the Cody Country Snowmobile Assoc. purchased a groomer. The Forest was having issues with safety. As club members we donated our time to keep the trails groomed and open. In the late 90's and early '00s I purchased a groomer and groomed the Beartooth system to keep it open. I hate to see it disappear.

 

[007]

There is good points and bad as in every other decisions that need to be made and you will never please everybody!

As for me if they keep 212 plowed I would certanly use it to get to our place rather than driving all the way around! On the other hand would Cooke make a parking lot or where would all the Cooke City guests park?

KJP

 

[TRS]

007 read my reply.

 

[WyoBoy1000]

You don't have to ride the freaking road to get from one side to the other, dam people did we forget snowmobiles run on snow and not just the packed stuff in the road. The only good reason for the trail right now would be for people on the east side of cooke to ride over to the beartooths. With the road open you could trailer over and not waste gas, the amount of gas it takes right now to get from point A to point B is worth 3-4hrs of actually riding. (not beating the trail) As for those that rent sleds and can't trailer over: 1, there is plenty of room to ride the side of the road or run through the trees. 2, The businesses in town could provide transport for rented sleds for a small fee (it would cost time and gas so its a draw) There might be some downfalls in the short term but in the long run it will be a huge plus for everyone.