G4 BELT EATER! [2017 Ski Doo 850 Rev G4 clutching/belt fix?] Belt Issues

[Satdaddy]

Way to much Clutch Heat

Further to your post..... First off really like my G4 850 with 154 & 3" Track. I am in my mid 50 s & weigh 150 pounds & do not consider myself an over the top aggressive rider. In about 2 to 3 feet of powder at Whistler this past Thursday, on a sunny warm spring ride, this was my concern.

As an owner of several new XM sleds, I have always been concerned with exsesive clutch heat, as are most of us mountain riders. I always provide cool time after a few hard pulls & clean clutches routinely after harder rides...

My big concern after some hard pulls on this mentioned ride, was that I have never had the outside cover so hot while trying to remove it...! Once cover removed both clutches were untouchable for several minutes!!

Also primary adjustable clickers useless for mountain riding, at around 1800 meters elevation, on clicker number 1 motor tack shows over 8300 & never under 8100 through out the whole day...

Just my observations...! Oh & really disappointed with the new gauge usability..... Only one scrolling button....?

 

[Daag44]

Gear-Up 1 tooth and Add Pin Weight

Further to your post..... First off really like my G4 850 with 154 & 3" Track. I am in my mid 50 s & weigh 150 pounds & do not consider myself an over the top aggressive rider. In about 2 to 3 feet of powder at Whistler this past Thursday, on a sunny warm spring ride, this was my concern.

As an owner of several new XM sleds, I have always been concerned with excessive clutch heat, as are most of us mountain riders. I always provide cool time after a few hard pulls & clean clutches routinely after harder rides...

My big concern after some hard pulls on this mentioned ride, was that I have never had the outside cover so hot while trying to remove it...! Once cover removed both clutches were untouchable for several minutes!!

Also primary adjustable clickers useless for mountain riding, at around 1800 meters elevation, on clicker number 1 motor tack shows over 8300 & never under 8100 through out the whole day...

Just my observations...! Oh & really disappointed with the new gauge usability..... Only one scrolling button....?

I really wish the pros were out here posting, but they post only a few times and expect that we pick-up on what they found and a spread the word.

To start, given your light weight on a 3" track you can Gear-Up the top gear by 1 tooth.

The next step is to change the secondary spring for a Black 157-303 #417 127 039

Then load the ramp with enough weights to bring the rpm down to 7800-7900 in pow and 8000 MAX on trail. You didn't mention your elevation so I can't give you a estimated weight.

The ramp can also be changed for a 168. With the proper ramp and weight kit you can easily adjust for the elevation. See your favorite tuner for the necessary parts.

Belt heat evacuation is one of the most important things to consider depending on your style of riding. If you cannot get the heat to escape because the snow packs in the left footwell, then you can make adjustments and even add a Blowhole to help.

The most common mistake is to add any kind of venting to compensate for an underlying problem with heat. The heat is generated for the most part from poor Driveline calibration. In other words if the setup is not tailored for the type of riding you are doing, then the heat generated by the belt becomes exponential. So if you have a setup that works for 2-6" of loose snow in your neck of the woods, it will likely need a different calibration for 3 feet of pow with an an altitude change at Whistler.

Venting is still critical regardless of the clutch calibration. Even with the best calibration, the efficiency of the CVT using a belt generates a lot of heat which needs to be evacuated. Whatever change you make, please be sure it helps the heat to evacuate. Only the proper equipment to measure the Belt Temperature can answer this question.

Clutch alignment should be at the very top of the list, although I am mentioning it close to last for a recency effect. This is big subject, but suffice to say the belt deflection and clutch cleanliness are two very important factors. The X and Y-X are two of the most important factors to ensure a low belt temperature. Just these two things will cause the belt temperature to soar and make it impossible to compensate with any amount of tricks. Alignment cannot be cheated.

The Belt Performance and Durometer works with the calibration as a system. The best advice I have heard for the belt was to avoid playing musical belts. This means that we should choose one type of belt and spend time to make the calibration work with the least belt temperature.

One last thing I would like you to consider is the Belt Speed. Just like the Alignment, this is critical to understand. The lower the Belt Speed, the more Efficient the CVT transmission will be. So if you find the popular consensus on Social Media is to down gear for more torque to the track and better response, when heading to your favorite off-trail area or returning to your trailer you may being doing yourself a disfavor with higher Belt Speeds to the point of reaching the Full Overdrive Shift. But if you learn the extent of your gearing with a simple calculation of Track Speed vs Drive Ratio, then you can easily adjust your trail riding habbits accordingly.

 

[Daag44]

BRP did the proto sleds have the wobble clutch? I'm assuming they did but deep down cant get this thru my head...been riding sleds in the mtns since 1995 and have had a lot of summits thru the years.

Love my 850 but this season has been a lot of wheels turning season if you know what I mean, count less time spent at the dealer, riding always worried, solid 1000 miles and 10 belts...and I have tried everything, always strung out on the wobble side...clutches are melting HOT and im fanning when I should be riding. We had killer snow in the west this year and it really got wasted, love the 850 but hate the list of issues...and its a BIG list.

I truly hope that you will read my posts on this thread and come out of it with the idea that the first place to go is a professional tuner. The very best help you can get is a combination of the manufacturer and a professional who earns their living with sleds.

There is a couple of questions for BRP that plague my mind. Why doesn't BRP work more closely with the Aftermarket? Do they know the Aftermarket does have Certified BRP Technicians?

The Aftermarket are unbiased, and they can offer two important things. One is a fair test, and the other is a performance complement which ranges from Forced Induction to Clutching. It is my point of view that the manufacturers have a large benefit to help the Aftermarket encourage the sport.

 

[winter brew]

@ BRP Care, my dealer has been great trying to remedy this clutching issue, but as of yet it is still creating too much heat. They have changed the helix out to a 40 Deg, plus they have slightly lowered the gearing. The primary clutch runs much hotter than the secondary by 40-50 Degrees all the time. Are you able to tell us what you believe is the solution or if you have found it? I have done all the mods on the clutch cover plus added a blowhole to pull as much heat as possible. Thanks,

I'm not BRP, hopefully they will chime in as well.
It should have come with a 40* helix.
Primary hotter generally means add weight to lessen slip OR lessen the squeeze in the secondary.
The P-drive takes more grams of weight compared to the TRA to drop RPM.
What altitude do you ride and did your dealer adjust weight in the primary?

 

[sledheadjake]

I ride 3-6000, dealer has not added weight yet. After they geared it down now I have to have the clickers set at 1 so I am not over reving.I was thinking the same thing on needing to add weight.

 

[boondocker99]

I ride 3-6000, dealer has not added weight yet. After they geared it down now I have to have the clickers set at 1 so I am not over reving.I was thinking the same thing on needing to add weight.

You are over reving (7900 is ideal) and on clicker 1 (3 is ideal). Fix those 2 issues ASAP then report back...

 

[Daag44]

I ride 3-6000, dealer has not added weight yet. After they geared it down now I have to have the clickers set at 1 so I am not over reving.I was thinking the same thing on needing to add weight.

The 850 has a lot of lower end grunt. You should consider going up a gear instead of down. A lot of weight is needed to bring down the rpm to 7800-7900. Do you have a video so that I can hear the rpm of your sled?

 

[winter brew]

I ride 3-6000, dealer has not added weight yet. After they geared it down now I have to have the clickers set at 1 so I am not over reving.I was thinking the same thing on needing to add weight.

Yes, just adding weight to the clicker adjust bolts will drop temps quite a bit. Add weight to run 79-8000 on 3 is ideal.
It's odd that all dealers are not doing this at delivery. It will probably take 5-6g.

 

[Norway]

The most common mistake is to add any kind of venting to compensate for an underlying problem with heat.

Major point!! 2nd this.

The heat is generated for the most part from poor Driveline calibration. In other words if the setup is not tailored for the type of riding you are doing, then the heat generated by the belt becomes exponential. So if you have a setup that works for 2-6" of loose snow in your neck of the woods, it will likely need a different calibration for 3 feet of pow with an an altitude change at Whistler.

IMO, this should NOT have to be a concern! On a NA sled climbing thousands of feet from start to finish on your ride, sure, I would say changing weights are acceptable. But your belt should still survive!

Venting is still critical regardless of the clutch calibration. Even with the best calibration, the efficiency of the CVT using a belt generates a lot of heat which needs to be evacuated. Whatever change you make, please be sure it helps the heat to evacuate. Only the proper equipment to measure the Belt Temperature can answer this question.

If you need to carve out your side panels for your belts to live, the OEM did not finish their tuning last spring.
Insulation for silencing, I know, but they still made a product that would not work in stock form.

Clutch alignment should be at the very top of the list, although I am mentioning it close to last for a recency effect. This is big subject, but suffice to say the belt deflection and clutch cleanliness are two very important factors. The X and Y-X are two of the most important factors to ensure a low belt temperature. Just these two things will cause the belt temperature to soar and make it impossible to compensate with any amount of tricks. Alignment cannot be cheated.

The Belt Performance and Durometer works with the calibration as a system. The best advice I have heard for the belt was to avoid playing musical belts. This means that we should choose one type of belt and spend time to make the calibration work with the least belt temperature.

One last thing I would like you to consider is the Belt Speed. Just like the Alignment, this is critical to understand. The lower the Belt Speed, the more Efficient the CVT transmission will be. So if you find the popular consensus on Social Media is to down gear for more torque to the track and better response, when heading to your favorite off-trail area or returning to your trailer you may being doing yourself a disfavor with higher Belt Speeds to the point of reaching the Full Overdrive Shift. But if you learn the extent of your gearing with a simple calculation of Track Speed vs Drive Ratio, then you can easily adjust your trail riding habbits accordingly.

It is important for me to point out that you do have good points and solid advice!! But in the end, I go to the aftermarket when I want to change away from stock and possibly void my warranty. Not to keep my stock sled alive.

Like you, I am extremely impressed with what the aftermarket can do, no buts about it. But not being able to touch my clutches for several minutes plain scares me.. I would ride slowly of the mountain convinced my sled was broken.

BRP, I am honestly impressed with the Gen4. Saw it ride and 3 of my buddies on Axys sleds rode it and came of with a "hmmm... what sled to snowcheck now?". And one had a GOOD 860 kit on his.
I told people last spring you had something different just from watching the vids, got laughed at of course.

Keep up the good work and best of luck figuring out these issues!!

 

[sledheadjake]

My sled now at Clicker #1 runs pretty very consistent 7900-8000. On some long pulls around 7000ft it drops down to 7700Rpm , but rebounds quite quickly. I am going to talk to my dealer today, when I get more clutching done ill report back

 

[boondocker99]

My sled now at Clicker #1 runs pretty very consistent 7900-8000. On some long pulls around 7000ft it drops down to 7700Rpm , but rebounds quite quickly. I am going to talk to my dealer today, when I get more clutching done ill report back

Add more weight until you can run on clicker 3 at 7900 RPMs...

 

[mv183]

Clickers DO NOT LOWER RPM !!!!

 

[BLITZKRIEG]

I'll just put this here

 

[Daag44]

----------------

 

[sledheadjake]

Clickers DO NOT LOWER RPM !!!!

Well mine some how magically dropped RPM from 8300 to 7900 when going from setting 3 to 1 then.

 

[BLITZKRIEG]

Day planning is key!

 

[mv183]

Well mine some how magically dropped RPM from 8300 to 7900 when going from setting 3 to 1 then.

Not to say your rpm didn't drop but if you are using the memory on your gauge what you are looking at is rpm overrun at engagement, the clickers on the pdrive change the ratio of heel to toe weight, witch determines the rate the clutch grabs the belt at engagement,(faster and harder it grabs the belt = less slip = less overrun) true running rpm has to be checked at full shift, so by just using the max rpm on the gauge you might see 8300, but then your rpm settles down, that has to be checked by watching the tach (unless running a data logger) the only way to change running rpm on the pdrive is by adding or subtracting pivot weight or using a heavier or lighter flyweight, they are basically the same as Polaris or Cat primary only way better built, more reliable, and easily adjustable

 

[sledheadjake]

Not using the recorded RPM, watching the tach as I pull the hill. I was running 8300 , then adjusted clickers to 1 , 7900-8000 all day now

 

[off trail mike]

Just curious...Is this a high altitude vs sea-level clutch setup issue as well??

Our group of 5 are all running the low elevation kit and it has worked well all season in some pretty deep snow (well over 3 feet of pow). No dramatic heating or belt dust. I've modified the cover slightly and removed felt but others have not so don't thing those changes make much of a difference....

Are guys blowing belts with the LE kit as well????


OTM

 

[BLITZKRIEG]