Detroit Bailout.......good?.....bad?.......

[crix]

After working for ford for 5 years and loosing my job I can honestly say the only thing that the union did for me was made sure I was paid and got x amount of holidays off ect. Yes I was making great money but absolutly not anywhere near 45 per hour take home dream on!! maybe after full benifits paid.

The one thing that pissed me off more than anything was there were tons of people that "worked" there that would sit at a table all day or be doubled, trippled up on one job. Why you ask? because the union will fight to keep "Workers" jobs even though they didn't do crap all day and then those same people would be complaining about how hard they have it bla bla bla.

As far as overpaid hands down the executives are grossly overpaid when a company is slowly going down the tubes have record losses and the ceo of the company gives himself 10 million in bonuses come on !!!!

Honestly do I think that they should bail these companys out

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Gaz]

OK the train kinda left the tracks & we are debating unions now, ok.

Unions truly were beneficial as the US became the dominant industrial player.
However, so much has changed.

Does anyone here NOT think that US autoworkers are overpaid?
Let's get real, they are grossly overpaid.

That is not the only problem.

The executives are also grossly overpaid.

These companies have to compete on a global market.
The monies wasted on overcompensation by US automakers is being invested into
R&D and engineering by the foreign competitors.

Will I feel bad about the 10s of thousands of jobs lost if the US auto industry fails?
Yes, I will feel bad, but I think it's what needs to happen.
I think it's what's gonna happen. It will just happen later rather than sooner
if we bail them out.

Sorry Mafesto...I get a little wound up about the unions. I am completely with you on this one. We just need to let this play out without injecting billions of dollars into it and trying to steer it into a completely different set of issues. Don't give any more money to executives who can't manage their way out of a wet paper sack. No more infusing the unions with billions to quiet their tantrums. The shoe is on the other foot now and the American auto manufacturers need to take a lesson from our Japanese counterparts on how to run this business in today's world.

 

[ruffryder]

The shoe is on the other foot now and the American auto manufacturers need to take a lesson from our Japanese counterparts on how to run this business in today's world.

I think the japanese have both universal health care and universal retirements. Two extremely large costs to businesses... Something to think about..

 

[catmandoo]

Bad in my eyes as a Canadian...We the Canadian taxpayers have bailed out bombardier many times because the company is losing money but the Liberals in eastern Canada keep tossing money into it time and time again. Now that the conservatives are in here the money has stopped but it will continue if and when the liberal’s get in again.
Goes to show our Liberals are insane because “the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results”. (Albert Einstein)

 

[bigfoot]

I think the japanese have both universal health care and universal retirements. Two extremely large costs to businesses... Something to think about..

Sure, if you don't mind working until 69 or older...

Japan's "universal health care" is very similar to the good old USA's system, the employer is the first line, those that can't get it there can find some relief from the Japanese government, just like here.

Believe it or not the US isn't really that bad of country.

 

[ruffryder]

Believe it or not the US isn't really that bad of country.

Who said it was bad? Just trying to point out that there are other ways of doing things....

 

[Gaz]

I think the japanese have both universal health care and universal retirements. Two extremely large costs to businesses... Something to think about..

I'm sure that they have something comparable. The numbers that I heard thrown around on the radio today were $81 / hour for the average assembly line worker at GM and $48 / hour for the average assembly line worker for the japs. Both of these figures included benefits, pensions, insurance, etc. Not to mention the fact that the Japanese cars are alot more 'wanted' than the US versions. I was watching TV last weekend and I saw an ad for a 'Red Tag Sale' at all Cadillac dealers. When was the last time you remember seeing Cadillacs involved in the Red Tag sale?

 

[Gimpster]

They'll end up selling Caddy's at Wal-Mart soon

----- Gimpster -----

 

[Zachcreek]

Change!!

U.S. government won't use bailout fund to buy troubled assets
Last Updated: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 | 12:03 PM ET Comments23Recommend12CBC News
The U.S. government is making a big move away from its original plan to use a $700-billion US bailout fund to buy up illiquid assets at financial institutions.

Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson said Wednesday that the government is now looking at ways to use the money to encourage private investment in the lending market for credit in areas such as credit cards, car loans and students loans. He said about 40 per cent of all U.S. consumer credit comes through that market.

 

[Sako7STW]

I dont get this whole bail out bull s. You see constantly where companies profited millions and even billions but yet they are failling? HOW? The way I see it is, if you can produce your product, pay your people and your self accordingly and at the end of the day you break even, you didnt fail. I understand wanting to have clear proffit for growth and developement. But lets say thet they make the same cars and trucks for lets say five years. Heck I think Ford had pretty much the same truck for 15 years. They were doing alot better then than now. Everyone wants newer, bigger, faster, stronger, more power, and on and on and on. So the companies listen to the dang media saying how this car is superior to your and how this one needs this change and so on. Next thing you know they spent all this cash on updateing and changing products to appease them and not paying attention to the fact that they are not selling anyways.

They want to fix things, cut R&D for a while. Cut production for a while. Wait for demand to catch up to the supply to create a demand again and then hit the ground running again. They dont need to "proffit" billions, they need to break even first, then worry about profits for growth and developement.

Look at exxon and its proffits. WHERE DOES ALL THE MONEY GO???? Do they have a freakin fort knox of thier own that they just store it in? Why do they need to make that much proffit? Charge the heck out of us to get it for what???? If a company has 600 billion sitting in accounts I have to ask why? Why dont all these companies supposedly needing bailed out merge with Exxon and other fitlhy rich companies or approach them for bailouts?

 

[Wolfrun]

NO BAILOUT. The only way the Big Three will be viable again is to break the union contracts and only then start over. The unions were needed when they started ,but like in so many cases GREED took over and in the form they are now, they have long outlived their usefulness. Unions are a lot like democrats, they profess to be for the people, the middle class, but money and power always get in the way! The same thing will happen in your new administration ( notice I say your ). Just hide and watch.

 

[bobback]

BAD! I just read in the paper that they were making billions of dollars in profits just a few year ago.

You can't bailout everyone, and I seriously doubt GM will totally go under.

 

[Snowmark]

big 3

I bet they steal all the retirement funds that people have worked a lifetime to accumulate and try to get the taxpayers to pick up the bill... dole the money out among upper management and lobbyists and possible then modernize their outdated ideas.

 

[xrated]

I say no for a few reasons. First and most importantly is the fact that Joe Taxpayer would be paying for poor executive decisions (ie: building cars that nobody wants) and the same executives would all be making out like criminals with huge golden parachutes. Second, there is no way that the big 3 will kick the unions out and say enough is enough. I heard today that the average hourly wage for a GM assembly line employee was $81 / hour including all pensions, benefits, and wages. The average take home pay of an assembly line employee was $45. If the government does this, there needs to be some sort of stipulations and conditions to giving them $50B.

Chit I don't even make that taking x-rays at one of the top medical places in the world.

 

[Beels]

Chit I don't even make that taking x-rays at one of the top medical places in the world.

That's GM's hard cost per employee figuring in benefits.

 

[xrated]

That's GM's hard cost per employee figuring in benefits.

still a take home of 45

 

[Beels]

still a take home of 45

I doubt it'll even be that high, but if it's anywhere even close to that, it's beyond crazy.

 

[Mafesto]

If there is a big 3 bail out, it will backfire.
I guaranphookingtee it.
People (myself included) will be so pissed off they will RUN to their Toyoga & Nassin dealers to buy importy jipjap iron in protest of the bailout.

Let the free market dictate their fate, that's what I say.

 

[stash]

Sorry Mafesto...I get a little wound up about the unions. I am completely with you on this one. We just need to let this play out without injecting billions of dollars into it and trying to steer it into a completely different set of issues. Don't give any more money to executives who can't manage their way out of a wet paper sack. No more infusing the unions with billions to quiet their tantrums. The shoe is on the other foot now and the American auto manufacturers need to take a lesson from our Japanese counterparts on how to run this business in today's world.

My man Gaz frikkin NAILS this one to the T. I couldn't have said it better

 

[MtnDoo]

They're "bailing out" the Union thugs.
Does anyone notice that this isn't happening Tenn & Bama?

I call it the Mexican & Canadian Employment Act - we're going to see more and more plants opening up on the Mexican & Canadian boarders - where there IS skilled labor, fewer labor issues and lower cost. (don't confuse this - no issue with Mexicans or Canadians, but they'll both benefit from U.S. mis-management and Union policies.)