Detroit Bailout.......good?.....bad?.......

[Himark]

Daimler excluded,these are the ones who developed the automobile in the first place! With them gone or broke, who will step up and have the technology to develope Fuel cell, Electric, Hybrid cars and trucks here in the US? 5 -10 years ago everyone was sceeming buy american and now everyone wnats them gone?!?!

Ahhhh yes there will be companies waiting in the wings as there already are people ready to take market share. Like the guy who started google and sold now has qued up a company called.

TESLA.

take a look.

 

[Himark]

The main problem is the unions They KILLED the Auto industy. Yes it is Part the MFG's fault for bending over for the unions when they had the money and were fat and Happy never looking ahead.

And before any union people jump on me tell me this, why can the Jap Co's run there co's in the USA and make money on small cars??? Because there NON UNION


.

AGREED A_GREED!

I mean COME ON paying someone 25 bux and hour to put parts in box's plus overtime and huge benifits. It is a no wonder they are where they are. BUT, the unions were needed at one time. Just like affirmative action was but NO longer is!

EDIT, if you are Union and are offended by this you really MUST ask yourself. "If this was MY company and I owned it, Would I be paying this much to do that job?"

 

[Deadsled]

I'm not sure what to think anymore. I have read that one in ten jobs is linked into the auto industry. What happens if we add another 10% un-employment? Our Industry in the Upper Peninsula depends on the steel industry and at scares me what's going to happen with the thousands of job losses that would occur just in my small world up here. Our wood products industry, paper, sawmills, and veneer mills are just about belly up. We laid off 40 last week. I know nobody's going to bail us out but we need people to keep working so they can afford furniture, new cabinets and remodeling.

If they do bail them out, it should be with stipulations regarding CEO pay and bonuses and getting the UAW to get real in their demands.

 

[Snow Fox]

Just when is this bailout crap going to stop?? I am starting to think that we should take our lumps right now. If the federal government keeps prolonging this major problem by attempting to bailout everyone, imagine how bad it will be when the bottom drops out of the economy then. I hope I am wrong, but I think there is going to be a horrible backlash to all of this.

My wife and I were talking last night about the state of the economy. I told her that I think it is going to get a lot worse before it gets better. We (Americans) have been living on easy street for to long. Me personally, I am making sure that our family has water, food, gas for the generator, and I am making sure I have enough ammuntion. When the chit hits the fan, people become desperate and violent. Just look at New Orleans after Katrina, I recommend to all on this forum to be prepared.

It is better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.

 

[Mrs Snowrider]

WOW.... Didn't AIG just get their second or third lump sum?

Yes. I am in the insurance industry and was just reading about it. I am just shaking my head.

I say no to bailing out the auto industry. But, what will that leave us with? KIA's??? I think they should merge together to make one brand. Think of how awesome those vehicles would be. Then the union contracts would be null and void, hire the best, not just the ones with the most seniority. The government should put up the funds to start that business over, but not to bail out the current ailing ones. It won't stop there! Airlines will be next, credit card companies after that, Starbucks will soon follow!

 

[Deadsled]

One thought I had was what could happen if we did let everything crash. It would be a worldwide depression, not just us. We go, everyone goes. You think the riots in New Orleans were something. It could be a Mad Max beyond Thunderdome type of world. How could we look our grandchildren in the eye and say.... yup, we let it happen?

It's a tough situation.

 

[Gimpster]

I don't see why my tax bucks should go to bail out morons who can't run business the right way.
I bet they could get workers without Unions
If m ybusiness goes south, is the government going to step up and give me a bail out .... Most likely not

I say let them dig themselves out of their own hole

----- Gimpster -----

 

[ruffryder]

One thought I had was what could happen if we did let everything crash. It would be a worldwide depression, not just us. We go, everyone goes. You think the riots in New Orleans were something. It could be a Mad Max beyond Thunderdome type of world. How could we look our grandchildren in the eye and say.... yup, we let it happen?

It's a tough situation.

If they did crash, don't you think Toyota and Honda and probably some Indian firm would buy them up and absorb them? Just the same as to what happened with the banks... weak ones faulted and then were absorbed by those that were doing good.

 

[yammadog]

I don't see why my tax bucks should go to bail out morons who can't run business the right way.
I bet they could get workers without Unions
If m ybusiness goes south, is the government going to step up and give me a bail out .... Most likely not

I say let them dig themselves out of their own hole

----- Gimpster -----

AMEN!!! If they really want to see the economy turn around, spend it on building stuff, like infrastructure. Get the money in the workers hands and they will spend it on stuff they need.

I was reading the other day how China was spending their bailout money on infrastructure. Just like coming out of the depression, we spent money on dams and highways, we need to do it again, just in a rebuilding process instead of new.....

If the banks and big business can't live on their billions of dollars in business, they better cut some paychecks to reasonable levels!!

 

[Gimpster]

If GM did a belly flop, someone or some people would step up and make it productive again. For the union workers, sorry, they had the decision to go union or not at one point in time. So maybe the union should step up and bail out the hand that feeds them. The buzzards that they are. From what I have seen, unions are more take than give from corperations and their senority people get paid more to be lazy anyway. Make these people have to earn an honest living like the rest of us do.


----- Gimpster -----

 

[winter brew]

I need a fix.....just a little...just one more time.....then I'll quit....really!

 

[Gimpster]

I need a fix.....just a little...just one more time.....then I'll quit....really!

I lost my humor and gained a big opinion with no answers
I'll stop


----- Gimpster -----

 

[xc700flatlander]

As Redline state earlier, the unions are the problem with the American car industry. Let them fail so they can get out of their union contracts, they will eventually be restarted. When they come back they won't have the labor costs and would actually be able to reinvest in their own company/products. The UAW is the absolute demise of the American car companies.

 

[yammadog]

It might actually open up advancement in american auto technology. I would bet there's been some suppression of competitive product to the big boys.....might be a good thing.

 

[Gaz]

I say no for a few reasons. First and most importantly is the fact that Joe Taxpayer would be paying for poor executive decisions (ie: building cars that nobody wants) and the same executives would all be making out like criminals with huge golden parachutes. Second, there is no way that the big 3 will kick the unions out and say enough is enough. I heard today that the average hourly wage for a GM assembly line employee was $81 / hour including all pensions, benefits, and wages. The average take home pay of an assembly line employee was $45. If the government does this, there needs to be some sort of stipulations and conditions to giving them $50B.

 

[Snowmark]

no way

there are fords, chevys and dodges eveywhere you look....upper management has run these companies into the ground and they are anxious to take whatever thay can get from the taxpayers and steal that too....as for you union bashers, maybe you would like the US to be more like a third world nation where people are working for slave wages with no benefits...that's just what is gonna happen here....if a person gives his life to a company for 5-6 days a week, year after year they should be paid a worthwhile wage....havn't you ever read of working conditions for children as well as adult at the dawn of the industrial age, outrage to which led to the creation of unions and other worker protection.

 

[Gaz]

there are fords, chevys and dodges eveywhere you look....upper management has run these companies into the ground and they are anxious to take whatever thay can get from the taxpayers and steal that too....as for you union bashers, maybe you would like the US to be more like a third world nation where people are working for slave wages with no benefits...that's just what is gonna happen here....if a person gives his life to a company for 5-6 days a week, year after year they should be paid a worthwhile wage....havn't you ever read of working conditions for children as well as adult at the dawn of the industrial age, outrage to which led to the creation of unions and other worker protection.

Please explain to the rest of us where $48 / hour take home for the average worker equates to 3rd world wages with GM paying another $33 / hour in benefits. You are right about one thing...the unions will continue to ef things up as long as they are involved. It's the equivalent of giving a McLaren to a 14 year old kid who thinks that the entire world owes him everything and he drives the car into the ground, never putting the proper care into the car, and then throwing a hissy fit when it breaks down and doesn't run.

 

[swampwater]

Your right on so start with my business, I only need a million dollar bailout cash influx, just a drop in the bucket, won't cost you more than a penny. Swampy.

One thought I had was what could happen if we did let everything crash. It would be a worldwide depression, not just us. We go, everyone goes. You think the riots in New Orleans were something. It could be a Mad Max beyond Thunderdome type of world. How could we look our grandchildren in the eye and say.... yup, we let it happen?

It's a tough situation.

 

[tech a]

This is payback for the Union Vote! If there is to be help it should come
from some incentives for buyers. the only way to get them going again to
for them to sell cars, giving them money to pay retiree's pensions and health
care is going to help them sell cars? The Dem's screamed about Enron, but, would not help the retiree's who lost everything there, why is this different?
Because it was based in Texas and not Michigan?
Any bailout should include provisions for both Union and Management to make concessions and should not include payouts to retiree's......This is tough, but,
there are no guarantees when it comes to reitrement accounts....especially with the Dem's now coming after our 401k's....
Aig????let em go under, the consumer can get insurance somewhere else.

 

[Mafesto]

OK the train kinda left the tracks & we are debating unions now, ok.

Unions truly were beneficial as the US became the dominant industrial player.
However, so much has changed.

Does anyone here NOT think that US autoworkers are overpaid?
Let's get real, they are grossly overpaid.

That is not the only problem.

The executives are also grossly overpaid.

These companies have to compete on a global market.
The monies wasted on overcompensation by US automakers is being invested into
R&D and engineering by the foreign competitors.

Will I feel bad about the 10s of thousands of jobs lost if the US auto industry fails?
Yes, I will feel bad, but I think it's what needs to happen.
I think it's what's gonna happen. It will just happen later rather than sooner
if we bail them out.