TRS Clutching

[wellfed777]

questions are great ! but....... if we go into why,who and why about other companies clutching setups vs TRS we'll end up off topic and down a rabbit hole

this thread is about TRS (Tony's ) clutching setup and how
to setup your sled with his design and Q&As about that setup

so please let's focus on that
if someone wants to start another thread about steep helixes and stiff springs vs less steep helixes and softer springs
GREAT !

lastly... i've run this clutching in a stock pro and turbo'd pro
and i didn't believe it would work
but it does and it works good and talk about upshift !
it pulls to the moon and back
i always thought i had to have stiff springs to get backshift and maintain peak RPM but i was wrong
try it for yourself and you'll see

 

[sledhead9825]

Wow, okay. I thought that's what forums were for? Q&A.
By definition I think I'm correct.
So to role play here, you go to buy your new AXYS, dealer says, "No you shush, you don't ask me questions. I'm trying to help people ride in the mtns with my superior product. If you don't think it will work....don't buy it."
How receptive would you be to that? On a scale of 1-10? 1 being, I really dislike this guy and 10 being this guy is salesman of the year material.

This is a great thread and I appreciate all that have shared info about TRS clutching. I for one don't want this thread derailed. Please keep all the info coming. Paulby. If you think the steep helix heavy spring setup is the way to go , give it a try. I have, it works but it has its limitations. A lot of happy T Pro owners with the TRS setup.

 

[AKFULLTHROTTLE]

Understood, great thread for sure. I have now heard it said a few times that this setup is for higher elevation, is this a correct statement or has it been done in low elevation?

With the straight 40 we started with here and a black/white spring it needed a lot of weight to control RPM here at 1-2500'. Once we went to a steeper helix we were able to loose weight and control rpm. Anyway you can elaborate why that was so and how going to a shallower cut will make it better?

Is it the spring pressure that is the issue and not so much the angle? Or both?

I am not afraid to try something that works and appreciate the time you all are taking to get this out in the field. Just asking....

 

[sledhead9825]

Tony didn't want to derail Pro Turbo gearing thread. With all the testing you have done based on a final drive ratio of 2.32ish ... Do you think us Axys guys should be gearing as close to that as well? I had 2.32 final gearing o my Tpro as per you and MH recomdations from a couple of seasons ago.
I liked it. And a stock Axys chain drive sled with 7 tooth has a final of 2.52. IMO the 2.52 isn't loading it enough. Thoughts??? In saying that I do like the low gearing with a 174 track in the trees.

 

[AKFULLTHROTTLE]

Is this not slipping?

 

[tdbaugha]

Understood, great thread for sure. I have now heard it said a few times that this setup is for higher elevation, is this a correct statement or has it been done in low elevation?

Indy Specialties runs the same clutching theory as Tony. Shallow angles and light springs. His weights are a different but same general philosophy... And they are adjustable. I'm sure Dan has set up low elevation turbo people up since he's in MN. You should give him a call!

Is this not slipping?

Which part? The rubber at the bottom is from backing out of the truck with a frozen track.

The slightly darker ring at the top of the clutch is where the belt is riding most of the time. That is where most of my heat is coming from.

Ideally I would gear up some to get that down at the 1:1 shift ratio for optimum efficiency, I just don't have a way of changing that with the quickdrive.

 

[JJ_0909]

I do find all this very interesting, I also agree there is a lot to be found in the clutching department when it comes to turbo sleds.

What maddens me is how this isn't as scientific as it should be. The amount of guess work is crazy to me. The fact some guys are running the opposite setup, with success (me), is even more maddening.

In any case, excited to see what others have to say. I'm hesitant to drop $300 on new clutching when there is work to be done yet - especially considering mine now isn't melting belts and is ride-able.

Will keep an eye on this!

 

[TRS]

I do find all this very interesting, I also agree there is a lot to be found in the clutching department when it comes to turbo sleds.

What maddens me is how this isn't as scientific as it should be. The amount of guess work is crazy to me. The fact some guys are running the opposite setup, with success (me), is even more maddening.

In any case, excited to see what others have to say. I'm hesitant to drop $300 on new clutching when there is work to be done yet - especially considering mine now isn't melting belts and is ride-able.

Will keep an eye on this!

jj I get that. I'm not trying to start trouble here.
If you could see how many boxes of helixs, weights, and springs I have. You would be astonished.......................Come join the club.

 

[tdbaugha]

So it sounds like those of us on the Silber setup (7 pound spring - 8-9psi of boost) would need the heaviest ones they make right?

Currently running...

10-70
Almond team spring
48 straight cut
black orange secondary

...and my clutches are hot!!!

You mind taking a picture of your primary sheave? I'm curious.

 

[Sage Crusher]

So it sounds like those of us on the Silber setup (7 pound spring - 8-9psi of boost) would need the heaviest ones they make right?

Currently running...

10-70
Almond team spring
48 straight cut
black orange secondary

...and my clutches are hot!!!

Hope to have an answer soon for us Silber Axys owners with the 163 /2.6 high elevation riders-
Have the TRS recipe coming - and will provide pic and results. Gearing will be a bit different as I run 8 tooth drivers fully clipped so that will take a bit of swapping/ but with the TKI system not as labor intense.

Have run the Silber set-up and currently run the same as JJ above - but doesn't generate clutch heat at all, nope no blow hole. Only running 3/4 of the clutch with the heavy black orange . Also will have a VDO boost gauge to convey actual boost PSI on the 5# and 7# settings 9,000' to 11,500

Thanks to Tony/Tory/Justin for making this happen for the Silber bunch

 

[polaris_guy13]

Indy Specialties runs the same clutching theory as Tony. Shallow angles and light springs. His weights are a different but same general philosophy... And they are adjustable. I'm sure Dan has set up low elevation turbo people up since he's in MN. You should give him a call!

I am using the Indy Specialty setup at low elevation (Michigan U.P.) and have good luck with the Indy kit w/ turbo weights. Clutches are cool and good on-off throttle performance.

 

[sledhead9825]

I'm running dan's clutch kit on my axys with a pipe, porting and head. And the low helix angles , light spring (125-175) work Sooo good. Also dan's helix goes into reverse unlike the team ones that slip the belt and don't move.

What elevation are you riding at ?

 

[tdbaugha]

Tony didn't want to derail Pro Turbo gearing thread. With all the testing you have done based on a final drive ratio of 2.32ish ... Do you think us Axys guys should be gearing as close to that as well? I had 2.32 final gearing o my Tpro as per you and MH recomdations from a couple of seasons ago.
I liked it. And a stock Axys chain drive sled with 7 tooth has a final of 2.52. IMO the 2.52 isn't loading it enough. Thoughts??? In saying that I do like the low gearing with a 174 track in the trees.

It is recommended to get to that approximate ratio yes. When you stray too far from the setup, there's no doubt it will not work as designed for your application. With that monster track, I'd like to see you start with 20-43 gearing first and see what results you get.

You're getting the picture. One thing I see people not trying, is running less angle to hang on to the belt, AND running a way softer spring to let the clutch work as it should instead of all bound up with the huge "tractor" spring trying to make the bigger angle hang on to the belt. Smaller angle with correct spring will absolutely blow your mind for performance. When you drop way down on the spring with lower angle you don't have to run the huge weight to try and force the clutch to open either. And yes, they will upshift!!!

I'm sorry, but did you read the first post? And like half of the other posts?

We're talking about running a 32 finish helix angle and a 140-200 (or 220) secondary spring while running 10 lbs of boost.

 

[JJ_0909]

I get the idea - but one thing I can't wrap my head around is why I stopped blowing belts when I went to a *steeper* helix, not the other way around.

I was able to drop weight form my primary, and am running a fairly stiff secondary spring...

 

[sledhead9825]

It is recommended to get to that approximate ratio yes. When you stray too far from the setup, there's no doubt it will not work as designed for your application. With that monster track, I'd like to see you start with 20-43 gearing first and see what results you get.

My thinking as well. I have a 20 top gear so ill start with that this weekend. Ill order a 43 and try it the following ride.
Thanks

 

[briand]

I know its hard to visualize that a shallow angle low spring rate would work as good or better then the high angle and high spring rate setups many of us run but after talking to Tony last year on the forum here he explained it to me pretty good

"Food for thought and comparable, is it easier to walk up a 32* slope with 220# on your back or a 62* slope with 300# on your back? On your hike a 32* slope takes longer to gain elevation than a 62* slope but it is sure easier." Was a quote tony responded back to me with.

After Tony had mentioned this i went back to some old notes were i compared old setups. Back when i first bought my 03 edge it came with the older style Polaris button clutch. Setup i ran in these was a 44-36 mountain helix with a 40 - 90 secondary spring by SLP. This setup work pretty darn good considering it was a button style clutch. Things I noticed that was different with this low angle and low spring rate is the way it cruised down the trail effortlessly compared to the team 98 back in the day with the 66-44.46 helix with the 140 -240 spring. The team needed a little more throttle to make it shift up on the trail vs the button clutch. Also gas mileage was better with the shallower angle while cruising. The team roller worked better i the hills then the button type but this isn't apple to apples either. Thees shallow angles must have worked in the past as Polaris used them a lot.



I never did try a progressive 46-32 with a low spring rate in the Team but i can certainly visualize how this will work. There are some chart attachments here to look at that compares what a lot of you use and Tonys setup and they are actually quite close to pounds of side force being applied to the sheaves.

Now I dont use the Tss 04 but i am going to try a tied that converts over to a 64-54 progressive helix with a 140-220 or a 140 -200 spring rate and see how this will compare or work.

Sorry Pictures are quite blury .

 

[goridedoo]

I would rather be a little douchey then pass on bad and incorrect information.

Obviously my comment was not taken quit right. Last week there was 30 of Tony's helix's sold at Venom alone. Including what I have ordered and other people it is probably up around 60. That tells me there is A LOT of people who are not happy with their turbo clutching. We haven't even touched on NA. Tory is trying to pool the information for this set up to finalize it. TRS spend hours upon hours perfecting the Pro turbo set up. Well for another month or so, TRS can't physically go out and help. So we need to share info... Clutch pictures, results Ect..... So coming in here and talking about Kurts set up ir steep angles and high rates springs isn't real helpful. We are dedicated to this set up because of the results we have experienced.

So please, pony up, buy the set up... So we can all compare notes on THIS set up. I have ran what you guys are trying to run since before 2000. We tried all kinds of crazy configurations. I have never been 100% happy until now.

Lots of good reading in here.

Speaking of NA... Is a "TRS" set up in the works for us guys with stockers? Dont want to derail, and I am assuming there will be a thread when that time comes, but just curious.

 

[tdbaugha]

Lots of good reading in here.

Speaking of NA... Is a "TRS" set up in the works for us guys with stockers? Dont want to derail, and I am assuming there will be a thread when that time comes, but just curious.

Yes it is on a limited basis.

 

[aksledjunkie]

tdbaugha, with this clutch kit is the MTNTK blowhole needed?

 

[tdbaugha]

tdbaugha, with this clutch kit is the MTNTK blowhole needed?

No definitely not. The blowhole does move a fair amount of air but it is definitely a band aid. I really don't think it makes much of a difference in clutch temps as much as it does in under hood air temps. If your clutching is bad (like ours was), the clutches are smokin hot regardless if you're vented or not.