delrin washer in secondary

[kylant]

i just did 2 washers under the cup as ran by MH.

quick question: when reinstalling the helix, it was pretty difficult to get it sit flush against the sheeve and to get it to rotate the last little bit for the holes to line up. Why would this be?
i checked and rechecked to make sure everything was lined up properly (x to x, inline with the white mark on the splines)

thx

 

[fastboy]

Just did mine the same way 2 washers under the gold cup.

 

[RMK935VA]

Ran the roller bearing all year last year with zero problems. It works better too.

 

[mountainhorse]

When you say "better" what do you actually mean and how are you quantifying it?

The effect of running the thrust bearing and one washer against it would raise the initial preload force of the spring on the order of 12-14 lbs dependent on the spring used. With a stock Red/black secondary spring (140/240)... it would make it something like a 155/255 spring.... which is a decent jump and would make backshift faster from the spring alone... Same effect as shimming the spring with a delrin, which is .030" thick, PLUS a .080 Shim under it.





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[RMK935VA]

MH, I can't match your technical knowledge but by "better" I meant that it does backshift faster. It is noticeable. Carl's installed it for me. I truly don't know what else they did. It does have their clutching kit also. They installed it without telling me to see if I would notice anything. I did so I asked them what they did to my sled. They told me it was a "secret weapon" part before finally explaining it to me. I guess that I was a "guinea pig" for them since they wanted to have some confirmation that there was a "seat of the pants" difference when experienced without knowing that it had been done. Anyway, I like what it did for my sled. I don't know enough about the intricacies of why it works but it does.

 

[mountainhorse]

935...Carls clutching kits are some of the best thought out ones out there... and they work well.

Glad to hear you have good performance with your sled.... that is why Carls has so many return customers.

Curious ... have you pulled your secondary for a new spring this season and had a look at everything? (sincere question)



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[WHEREDAFUGAWEE]

Team Tied Secondary Clutch

Would adding these Delrin washers be necessary on my Team Tied Secondary Clutch as Team states: The TEAM Tied Driven Clutch is an improvement from the TSS-04 in that the moveable sheave opens axially to the stationary sheave without rotational movement. Does the Secondary spring still rotate?

 

[mountainhorse]

A delrin cant hurt on the Team Tied... but Team says not needed.

But if you think about it... the spring will still twist a bit through it's compression (like people are finding in their primarys)... by nature of a spring, even though the sheaves stay fixed in relation to each other.



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[volcano buster]

What's the consensus on the thrust bearing? Carl's is recommending it for my 660.

 

[gtwitch]

I am considering the roller thrust bearing for my secondary and would like hearing more about that??

gtwitch in wyoming

 

[Teth-Air]

This will be 3rd season with the bearings. Wouldn't go without it. When you rotate you sheaves by hand it is night and day difference. You will then understand that the reduced friction will allow your secondary to react way faster when the loads change on the motor. I recommend using 2 hardened steel plates on each side of the bearing as the rollers need a solid smooth surface, Some only use the spring cup on one side. The added height does slightly increase the spring pressure but the extra pressure is a good thing when the sheaves turn so easy.

 

[volcano buster]

This will be 3rd season with the bearings. Wouldn't go without it. When you rotate you sheaves by hand it is night and day difference. You will then understand that the reduced friction will allow your secondary to react way faster when the loads change on the motor. I recommend using 2 hardened steel plates on each side of the bearing as the rollers need a solid smooth surface, Some only use the spring cup on one side. The added height does slightly increase the spring pressure but the extra pressure is a good thing when the sheaves turn so easy.

Where did you get the bearing and the plate washers?

My understanding is that the extra height decreases the initial angle length which in my case was also recommended, in addition to increasing the spring pressure. Drops the .46 initial angle to whatever the increased height is, maybe close to .35 which would be great in my case.

 

[Sheetmetalfab]

Where did you get the bearing and the plate washers?

My understanding is that the extra height decreases the initial angle length which in my case was also recommended, in addition to increasing the spring pressure. Drops the .46 initial angle to whatever the increased height is, maybe close to .35 which would be great in my case.

I just want to know where i can order online with a minimum of chasing things down/ registering/ bs.
I don't want to talk to anyone on the phone, i just want to push the easy button at 11:30 at night when I happen to think of ordering something.

The easier it is to "buy it now" exponentially more products will be sold.
Having reasonable shipping helps (I don't expect free)

 

[Teth-Air]

Where did you get the bearing and the plate washers?

My understanding is that the extra height decreases the initial angle length which in my case was also recommended, in addition to increasing the spring pressure. Drops the .46 initial angle to whatever the increased height is, maybe close to .35 which would be great in my case.

We have them. Canadian dollars so cheap for you USA guys.

http://www.sourceinnovations.ca/product/polaris-team-secondary-roller-bearing-kit/


You can PM me but include your address so I can quote freight too.

 

[mountainhorse]

Freebie tester

I just want to know where i can order online with a minimum of chasing things down/ registering/ bs.
I don't want to talk to anyone on the phone, i just want to push the easy button at 11:30 at night when I happen to think of ordering something.

The easier it is to "buy it now" exponentially more products will be sold.
Having reasonable shipping helps (I don't expect free)

Larry,
I'll send you out a "freebie" of this roller-thrust-bearing ... just let us know how it works for you during the season.

Just to be clear... I only have one of these... I do not sell them...
Just interested in Sheetmetalfab's impression






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[jrt6457]

anyone have dimensions of these washers and bearing?

 

[mountainhorse]

Which dimensions are you looking for?

Installed height, bearing and two washers for it to ride against... .140" (a little over an 1/8" thick)

Photo Credit: SourceInnovations

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[volcano buster]

How closely does it match the internal clutch dimensions? (spring cup and delrin washer)

All of the bearings I found online would either be too tight, or a bit sloppy around the aluminum shoulder.

Springs are cheap enough that one a bit more relaxed could be installed if the added thickness caused too much tension. Spring binding a possible issue?

 

[jrt6457]

Which dimensions are you looking for?

Installed height, bearing and two washers for it to ride against... .140" (a little over an 1/8" thick)

Photo Credit: SourceInnovations

.

O.D., I.D., and thickness of parts separately

 

[Cinno]

O.D., I.D., and thickness of parts separately

2 ea. Koyo TRA-4052 Thrust Roller Bearing Washer, TR Type, Open, Inch, 2-1/2" ID, 3-1/4" OD, 1/32" Width $2.99 amazon prime

1 ea. Koyo NTA-4052 Needle Roller and Cage Thrust Assembly, Open, Steel Cage, Inch, 2-1/2" ID, 3-1/4" OD, 5/64" Width, 5100rpm Maximum Rotational Speed, 34200lbf Static Load Capacity, 5740lbf Dynamic Load Capacity $8.83 amazon prime

If you search for "coil-over thrust bearing kit" on-line you will get many hits from web sites that sell them for dune buggies.

I use molybdenum disulfide dry lube instead of wd40. Carls cycle sells these kits but only uses one thrust washer as the bearing is placed between the cup and washer. I and several others recommend two washers because the cup has holes in it that my catch on the needles of the bearing. So the order is cup-washer-bearing-washer. The extra washer only adds ~0.030 to stack height.

Cinno