DC Power on a PRO

[Merlin]

Merlin... have you tried to put a larger amp draw on the circuit to see if it works... like a fan or a 55w light (or pair of fog lights etc)??

Eric,


We've even gone a bit higher as we've used an A/F ratio gauge(Innovative MTX-L) & turbo oil pump(Walbro) along with some other misc. 12V accessories that would provide a combined load of roughly 5 - 7 amps................We could try adding more load to the circuit to see what happens but it would be somewhat of a moot test as for our application we only intend to power up the A/F ratio gauge, turbo oil pump, & indicator light................What I do know is that open circuit voltage measures anywhere from 3.5 to 5 volts & the second that we connect any or all of the above mentioned loads, the voltage drops to 0....................

 

[mountainhorse]

A token small battery pack with relay seems to be the best bet then.
You could go with a pretty small pack and work fine.

 

[Merlin]

A token small battery pack with relay seems to be the best bet then.
You could go with a pretty small pack and work fine.

That's kinda what we've been thinking too.............

The part that intrigues/confuses me is how some people were able to get this mod. to work without the use of a battery - I guess that will remain a mystery???


Thanks for your help & advice,


Glen

 

[MURFDOG]

Finally fired my sled up last night ('11) and have the same results. No power unless current is added. Round two I guess.

 

[off road rider]

I'm starting to think the difference we are seeing is the wiring change with the newer models.Although I was told I was working on a 2012 and 2013 at the dealer, I suppose there could have been a mistake.
I so far have not been able to get my hands on another pro, so I dont have farther info. I did send MH a light and a harness to see if he can find anything out. We also supplied another customer with a small battery and I am awaiting his report.
Hopefully Ill get that machine in the shop soon and be able to do more.

If anyone wants to send back there harness we supplied I understand

 

[TurboMatt]

I was able to get everything hooked up tonight and I figured I would post some pics for anyone else looking to do this.
I used the UB1213 battery that was posted earlier in this thread. One of the main reasons I didn't want to use a battery was that I didn't want more components in the way for when I needed to work on the sled. I'm trying to keep things as simple as possible. But, as I turns out I needed the battery. After kicking around many different mounting locations the spot I came up with that would protect the battery, hold it tight and keep it out of the way was the factory tool pouch on the left side of the sled. The battery fit perfect in there and I can still fit the spark plug wrench, belt change tool, emergency start rope, and 2 stark plugs in there as well(not in the pouch anymore). I picked up a waterproof relay, a fuse holder and used the harness I got from off road rider. I didn't use a "fuse block" like others posted. I wanted all of the components on 1 fuse so I know that if my a/f & egt gauge go out that I lost power and my turbo oil pump is not longer getting power anymore either. I didn't want to add a "dummy" lite for the oil pump.Once again trying to keep things simple.
I'd still like to come up with a smaller battery, but I don't know what I could use that would be smaller. Anyone have any ideas?
I haven't gotten to actually ride the sled yet, but I did make a couple immediate observations from running the sled in the shop:
-The sled starts up so much nicer. Over the summer the only changes I made to the sled where that I installed a new fuel pump and the EGT gauge. I assume the EGT gauge doesn't take much juice to run, but my sled started noticeably harder this season. Even when warm. It would take 2-4 pulls to get it to start when warm and sometimes up to 10 when it was cold in the morning. The sled now fires on the 1st pull everytime.( I havent gotten to try it cold yet). I'm assuming this is because the fuel pump and ECU are now getting the needed power to actually work properly on the 1st pull.The other thing is my sled has always idled low. Dash would be flickering, battery light would sometimes flicker on, sled would run rough. Now my sled is able to idle a 1400-1500rpms(yes I know this is low) without the dash lights flickering or the a/f gauge giving my the E9 low power error.
Any questions let me know.

 

[mountainhorse]

Great post... that battery is pretty compact.

Thanks for the heads up.

 

[m1kflyingtiger]

I'm starting to think the difference we are seeing is the wiring change with the newer models.Although I was told I was working on a 2012 and 2013 at the dealer, I suppose there could have been a mistake.
I so far have not been able to get my hands on another pro, so I dont have farther info. I did send MH a light and a harness to see if he can find anything out. We also supplied another customer with a small battery and I am awaiting his report.
Hopefully Ill get that machine in the shop soon and be able to do more.

If anyone wants to send back there harness we supplied I understand

So if the battery thing works are you going to be selling a little battery and relay set up to go with the harness?

 

[TurboMatt]

How small of a battery back could we use?

 

[mountainhorse]

I wouldn't go too small ...say 3000-4000mah smallest.

Also remember that this acts to smooth out the power for any sensitive electronics.



.

 

[Sunvang]

I was able to get everything hooked up tonight and I figured I would post some pics for anyone else looking to do this.
I used the UB1213 battery that was posted earlier in this thread. One of the main reasons I didn't want to use a battery was that I didn't want more components in the way for when I needed to work on the sled. I'm trying to keep things as simple as possible. But, as I turns out I needed the battery. After kicking around many different mounting locations the spot I came up with that would protect the battery, hold it tight and keep it out of the way was the factory tool pouch on the left side of the sled. The battery fit perfect in there and I can still fit the spark plug wrench, belt change tool, emergency start rope, and 2 stark plugs in there as well(not in the pouch anymore). I picked up a waterproof relay, a fuse holder and used the harness I got from off road rider. I didn't use a "fuse block" like others posted. I wanted all of the components on 1 fuse so I know that if my a/f & egt gauge go out that I lost power and my turbo oil pump is not longer getting power anymore either. I didn't want to add a "dummy" lite for the oil pump.Once again trying to keep things simple.
I'd still like to come up with a smaller battery, but I don't know what I could use that would be smaller. Anyone have any ideas?
I haven't gotten to actually ride the sled yet, but I did make a couple immediate observations from running the sled in the shop:
-The sled starts up so much nicer. Over the summer the only changes I made to the sled where that I installed a new fuel pump and the EGT gauge. I assume the EGT gauge doesn't take much juice to run, but my sled started noticeably harder this season. Even when warm. It would take 2-4 pulls to get it to start when warm and sometimes up to 10 when it was cold in the morning. The sled now fires on the 1st pull everytime.( I havent gotten to try it cold yet). I'm assuming this is because the fuel pump and ECU are now getting the needed power to actually work properly on the 1st pull.The other thing is my sled has always idled low. Dash would be flickering, battery light would sometimes flicker on, sled would run rough. Now my sled is able to idle a 1400-1500rpms(yes I know this is low) without the dash lights flickering or the a/f gauge giving my the E9 low power error.
Any questions let me know.

Do you need the relay and harness to get this to work? I was told by another turbo driver that mounted a battery, that i could just take the red/green from the e-start plug, and down to + on the battery, and just ground the -. Then continue to get power to my a/f gauge from the ACC plug behind the dash.

 

[TurboMatt]

Do you need the relay and harness to get this to work? I was told by another turbo driver that mounted a battery, that i could just take the red/green from the e-start plug, and down to + on the battery, and just ground the -. Then continue to get power to my a/f gauge from the ACC plug behind the dash.

Thats incorrect. The red/green wire on the e-start plug and the ACC plug behind the dash are 2 seperate circuits. IE power is produced from 2 different coils on the stator.
If you wire it up the way your other source instructed you will be accomplishing nothing other than charging a battery that you aren't even using power from. If you want to draw power from the headlight/handwarmer coil(this is what we are trying to do here) you pretty much have to wire it up like this. Unless you have one of the sleds that will output voltage to that red/green wire without a battery hooked up(It you do have a sled like that you could just add a capacitor and call it good, no relay needed).

 

[TurboMatt]

I wouldn't go too small ...say 3000-4000mah smallest.

Also remember that this acts to smooth out the power for any sensitive electronics.



.

What could possibly happen by using too small of a mah battery? We really aren't using the battery to "power" anything. The power is really coming straight from the regulator. All we really need the battery for is to "excite" the circuit & smooth out the power.

Could you put a battery back in like this:
http://www.onlybatterypacks.com/showitem.asp?ItemID=11103.37

or

http://www.onlybatterypacks.com/showitem.asp?ItemID=11046.37

Would that work? Would you have to be worried about "overcharging" the battery? Is that even possible? I really don't know all that much about batteries.

I just want to know what my options are. I'm not going to change anything this winter, but I would posssibly looking for a more compact battery option if it is possible to do.

thanks

 

[Sunvang]

Thats incorrect. The red/green wire on the e-start plug and the ACC plug behind the dash are 2 seperate circuits. IE power is produced from 2 different coils on the stator.
If you wire it up the way your other source instructed you will be accomplishing nothing other than charging a battery that you aren't even using power from. If you want to draw power from the headlight/handwarmer coil(this is what we are trying to do here) you pretty much have to wire it up like this. Unless you have one of the sleds that will output voltage to that red/green wire without a battery hooked up(It you do have a sled like that you could just add a capacitor and call it good, no relay needed).

How about power/charge the battery from the red/green on the e-start plug, and then power the a/f gauge with a on/off switch from the battery? Would that keep the battery charged, and be able to power the gauge also?

 

[thewayout]

The internal batterys used in a racepak are simular to what turbomatt posted links to. Wonder if a race pack would be enough to excite the charging circuit.

 

[TurboMatt]

How about power/charge the battery from the red/green on the e-start plug, and then power the a/f gauge with a on/off switch from the battery? Would that keep the battery charged, and be able to power the gauge also?

Ya that would work. But don't you think it would be a pain in the butt flipping a switch on and off all the time. I shut my sled off probably 50 times in the course of a day. I think that'd get old.

The internal batterys used in a racepak are simular to what turbomatt posted links to. Wonder if a race pack would be enough to excite the charging circuit.

I was able to"excite" the circuit with a regular 9v battery so It doesn't need much. Its just a matter of whether or not it can take the constant charging from the sled or not. I don't know enough about batteries or electronics to answer that.

 

[mountainhorse]

I don't think you will overcharge a NIMH battery.... but too small and it cant smooth out the spikes from the half wave rectifier.

In the ES sub harness is a red/white wire that can be used to trigger your relay.. but not something to activate the rectifier.

Good luck... keep us posted!


.

 

[Sunvang]

Ya that would work. But don't you think it would be a pain in the butt flipping a switch on and off all the time. I shut my sled off probably 50 times in the course of a day. I think that'd get old.

Hmm. Could be but I think it would work for me. But would there be any way to connect it to the kill switch on the handlebar, so it would turn off the gauge when i hit that?

 

[TurboMatt]

Hmm. Could be but I think it would work for me. But would there be any way to connect it to the kill switch on the handlebar, so it would turn off the gauge when i hit that?

LOL, ya, with a relay. LOL

 

[Sunvang]

LOL, ya, with a relay. LOL

Looks like there will be a relay then,