Cops to serious?? story included

[IMSICK]

every so often I show intellegence Bruce...... In this case, as I do not believe in religion, I have done the reading and searching and arguing needed to support my view point. I do not need to impose my opinion of non belief on others. Religion is a personal choise, and therefor I believe it belongs in a private setting, not in a public setting. I disagree with our legal system being based on religion, but it makes sense to have it that way as fear tactics ultimatly dominate the masses.

This leads in to my non understanding of why polygamy is wrong..... It's wrong because society says its wrong? Is it so because religion says it's wrong? Correct me if I'm wrong, but what is the difference between one religion believing that polygamy is the way it was written and the other believing that war is the way it was written? Polygamy is wrong but war is right?

 

[teeroy]

this thread needs more cowbell

 

[rasp112]

I find it interesting that christians who base their beliefs off FAITH hold mormons to a different standard and must have hard evidence to believe it .. Either way it doesnt really matter.. If you truely want "facts" read the book Since Cumorah by hugh Nibley or any of the many books he wrote for that matter.. But I have the feeling even if you did read them we would still be in the same spot we are now.

But to say that the church leaders are lying to their members and do not fully believe and have faith in the things they teach is very offenssive to me.

 

[xrated]

whew, it's a good think I don't like Religion either or I'd be in a pickle. As a wise preacher man once told me....OK this is paraphrased as it was a few years ago.

"I hate the word religion....all sorts of do this, don't do that or I(God) won't love you, etc. What I like is spiritual in nature. A Relationship, especially a relationship with God. I can talk with him, walk with him, and even if I screw up he will still love me. You don't have to follow the laws and rules put forth by God and man to a T, all you have to do is love God and believe that he sent his Son to die for you. That is way better then a Religion"

So that's all I have to say on that.

Speaking of out of control cops....I got pulled over last night for having a air freshener on my rearview mirror Well that and I did a 1 second pause instead of a full stop at a stop sign.

 

[Snow Fox]

there is nothing to disagree..... do not all religions follow the same character?

Christianity follows one character, Hinduism follows a completely different character, Buddhism follows a character of its own, as does Islam, Judaism, Athiests, etc. There is right and there is wrong. Human sacrifice for example is completely wrong. The government should intervene when it comes to religious practices such as this, because there should be morality in this world. That is what is great about this countries constitution. We are protected from cruel and unusual punishment whether it comes from religious practices or other reasons. That is why the federal government forced its hand on the LDS church and the practice of polygamy. Morally it is wrong.

As far as violence and war, you are right IMSICK war is not right either. As far as a private setting vs. public setting. I agree Religion should be kept in a private setting. Though with that said, when a particular religion will use means that I do not feel is right to attempt to gain membership and spread their religious message....this puts it in a public setting and I will then put my perspective out to the public as well.

 

[Snow Fox]

I find it interesting that christians who base their beliefs off FAITH hold mormons to a different standard and must have hard evidence to believe it .. Either way it doesnt really matter.. If you truely want "facts" read the book Since Cumorah by hugh Nibley or any of the many books he wrote for that matter.. But I have the feeling even if you did read them we would still be in the same spot we are now.

But to say that the church leaders are lying to their members and do not fully believe and have faith in the things they teach is very offenssive to me.

There is historical evidence that supports Christianity. The FAITH is based off both historical and archaelogical evidence. This is my argument with the Book of Mormon, there is no evidence that supports that document. It is absolutely absurd to believe that Native Americans are the lost tribe of Israel. You are right, the book Since Cumorah will not change my mind. I do not believe that theories based from Mr. Nibley can be called "facts".

I come from the same direct ancestory as Joseph Smith. We have the same "great" Grandfather in one of my family ancestoral lines. Of course me being several generations more down the line. He was only a mortal man as am I.

 

[IMSICK]

Sorry.... I should have been more specific about which religions.... Yes, there are some with different idols. But, this does not make it wrong. It makes it wrong on a belief vs belief standard, but as far as personal preference goes..... nothing wrong with it.

This is where publicity has jaded the right to personal opinion. The shine and glam is used as a sales pitch for various groups, gaining attention through popularity and peer pressure. My neighbours ask every sunday morning if I feel like going to church with them today..... Every week is a no, yet every week they ask. Why should I have their beliefs imposed on me every week and forced into a guilt situation?


Now... when you say polygamy is morally wrong, who and what decided that this was wrong?
Fear of religious persicution is an invalid justification because the views are not felt by all religions..... so this leads to the question..... which religion is right and should government be influenced by a solo religion?

 

[Bubba700]

There is historical evidence that supports Christianity. The FAITH is based off both historical and archaelogical evidence. This is my argument with the Book of Mormon, there is no evidence that supports that document. It is absolutely absurd to believe that Native Americans are the lost tribe of Israel. You are right, the book Since Cumorah will not change my mind. I do not believe that theories based from Mr. Nibley can be called "facts".

I come from the same direct ancestory as Joseph Smith.What does that have to do with the price of rice in china,I am a direct decendant of Adam who was the first prophet on the earth. whoopity do We have the same "great" Grandfather in one of my family ancestoral lines. Of course me being several generations more down the line. He was only a mortal man as am I.

As were every prophet that has lived on the earth

Just so you understand the correct use of the word.
1 a: allegiance to duty or a person : loyalty b (1): fidelity to one's promises (2): sincerity of intentions
2 a (1): belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2): belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion b (1): firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2): complete trust
3: something that is believed especially with strong conviction; especially : a system of religious beliefs <the Protestant faith>

www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/faith

 

[xrated]

because there should be morality in this world.....Morally it is wrong-Morals are dependent upon a cutural. Morally radical islam views suicide bombings as morally OK. Buddhists morally don't believe in causing harm to any living creature. Morally Canucks view drinking light beer as just plain wrong. One groups morals aren't the same as another....hell Nazis probably had no moral qualms about killing Jews. Get what I'm saying?

Every week is a no, yet every week they ask. -persistent little buggers, who knows one day you may decide to go, and it will mean nothing to you or them, or it maybe the best day ever.

 

[IMSICK]

The best day ever...... Who knows. Again, I will not run down other ppls beliefs. Both my kids go to a catholic school..... As I am in the middle to bitter end of a divorce, my decisions are ignored cause the kids are with her. I went to their christmas concert last year.... What a joke!!!

The thing lasted for 2 hours... the first 1 hour 40 minutes was all church. The last 20 minutes was all the grades singing a song.... one grade at a time. We were not allowed to clap. When I did after the grade one class sang their carol, i was asked to refrain. When I did it again after the grade 2 class, I was asked to refrain or I would have to wait in the lobby until my kids were ready to leave..

If this is what religion is all about, I will promis you that you will NEVER see me believe, support or promote ANY religion.

 

[Snow Fox]

As were every prophet that has lived on the earth

Just so you understand the correct use of the word.
1 a: allegiance to duty or a person : loyalty b (1): fidelity to one's promises (2): sincerity of intentions
2 a (1): belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2): belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion b (1): firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2): complete trust
3: something that is believed especially with strong conviction; especially : a system of religious beliefs <the Protestant faith>

www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/faith

Firm Belief in something for which there is no proof? I though Joseph Smith had proof because the angel Moroni showed him where the Golden Tablets were and this is how J. Smith deciphered the tablets and wrote the Book of Mormon.
I can go imagine something and preach it and call my self a prophet. That was my point in regards to showing that I have the same ancestory as him. He was a mortal man, the same as me, you, and everyone else. He apparently had a little bit more of an imagination than the average joe though.

 

[Snow Fox]

Sorry.... I should have been more specific about which religions.... Yes, there are some with different idols. But, this does not make it wrong. It makes it wrong on a belief vs belief standard, but as far as personal preference goes..... nothing wrong with it.

This is where publicity has jaded the right to personal opinion. The shine and glam is used as a sales pitch for various groups, gaining attention through popularity and peer pressure. My neighbours ask every sunday morning if I feel like going to church with them today..... Every week is a no, yet every week they ask. Why should I have their beliefs imposed on me every week and forced into a guilt situation?


Now... when you say polygamy is morally wrong, who and what decided that this was wrong?
Fear of religious persicution is an invalid justification because the views are not felt by all religions..... so this leads to the question..... which religion is right and should government be influenced by a solo religion?[/QUOTE

I think there is nothing wrong with polygamy as long as everyone involved is consentual and Ok with the arrangment. Now when it comes to polygamy in the sense that a young child is forced into a polygamous marriage as happened in the beginning of the LDS church and what still happens in the fundamentalist LDS church. Sorry, but that is not right morally, legally or for any other reason.

 

[Bubba700]

[/QUOTE

I think there is nothing wrong with polygamy as long as everyone involved is consentual and Ok with the arrangment. Now when it comes to polygamy in the sense that a young child is forced into a polygamous marriage as happened in the beginning of the LDS church and what still happens in the fundamentalist LDS church. Sorry, but that is not right morally, legally or for any other reason.[/QUOTE]

I would love to see docummented proof of that one,
Its funny that you make statments about Joseph Smith having a great "Imagination" to come up with things. The question I have for you is as a lutheran, do you believe in or use any part of the bible?
Reason I ask, if you do why is it so hard to believe and use a book in your teaching that is full of writings of prophets being visited by angels and doing magnificent things in the name of God, yet for it to happen in present times it seems so far and outlandish to you?

 

[Weekday Warrior]

http://www.southparkzone.com/episodes/712/All-about-the-Mormons?.html


funny as hell, and somewhat educational at the same time

 

[hatchers]

i not gonna read all these posts.....just add my two cents

life is short, do what you want, be real to yourself and other with respect it or not


i cant see blowin my horn at a multiwife compound for too long without beer in my belly...FYI, you cant get a DUI if the keys are out of the car

people who know me regard me as good peolpe, thats my crutch to act like a highschool kid


all in all, life is short, dont did peolpe who mean well for your beleifs, just havve fun no matter what.....whyt live in a bubble

 

[rasp112]

And thats my point is that you ask for facts about these things but I know that if you were to be given these "facts". You would say, "Thats a theory" or whatever.. You could hold the plates in your hand yet still not believe. And i shared that scripture for that reason.. others like yourself will never see what we see as sacred and it will in turn be trampled under your feet.

You believe that Jesus Christ is the son of god and savior of mankind.. You believe The Moses, Abraham, Noah, and others were prophets and performed miracles in the name of god.. Not because you have archealogical evidence they are true.. You believe it cause you have FAITH they are true and that is your evidence.

Oh and on another note I dont think any one is arguing that Joseph Smith was just a man like you and me. He was, I dont know what anti-morman author told you otherwise.

here is a part of Joseph Smiths actual testimony, seems to still continue to this day.

So it was with me. I had actually seen a light, and in the midst of that light I saw two Personages, and they did in reality speak to me; and though I was hated and persecuted for saying that I had seen a vision, yet it was true; and while they were persecuting me, reviling me, and speaking all manner of evil against me falsely for so saying, I was led to say in my heart: Why persecute me for telling the truth? I have actually seen a vision; and who am I that I can withstand God, or why does the world think to make me deny what I have actually seen? For I had seen a vision; I knew it, and I knew that God knew it, and I could not deny it, neither dared I do it; at least I knew that by so doing I would offend God, and come under condemnation.

 

[Dogmeat]

wow this is the dumbest thread I've read in awhile

 

[Snow Fox]

[/QUOTE

I think there is nothing wrong with polygamy as long as everyone involved is consentual and Ok with the arrangment. Now when it comes to polygamy in the sense that a young child is forced into a polygamous marriage as happened in the beginning of the LDS church and what still happens in the fundamentalist LDS church. Sorry, but that is not right morally, legally or for any other reason.

I would love to see docummented proof of that one,
Its funny that you make statments about Joseph Smith having a great "Imagination" to come up with things. The question I have for you is as a lutheran, do you believe in or use any part of the bible?
Reason I ask, if you do why is it so hard to believe and use a book in your teaching that is full of writings of prophets being visited by angels and doing magnificent things in the name of God, yet for it to happen in present times it seems so far and outlandish to you?[/QUOTE]


Documented Proof? Just as I would like to see documented proof that the Book of Mormon isn't a fictitious document written by a man no different than the likes of Jim Jones or David Koresh. Why is it when the Book of Mormon is questioned, legitimate questions cannot be answered? Why is it that the Mormon church spends millions on buying literature that discounts the church? I am still waiting for my answer about the evidence that supports Jesus Christ visiting America and Please, Tell me about the Native Americans being the lost tribe from Israel, even though DNA evidence proves that they originated from Asia. I have only brought this up several times, with no answer.

Joseph Smith had several wives, 40 from the sources I have read. Some of these wives he married when they were only 14 or 15 years old. He was no more than a pedophile. It is starting to get deep in here, better get my shovel.

 

[xrated]

Reason I ask, if you do why is it so hard to believe and use a book in your teaching that is full of writings of prophets being visited by angels and doing magnificent things in the name of God, yet for it to happen in present times it seems so far and outlandish to you?- I'm a firm christian guy...but I gotta admit I've wondered on this a time or two.

Joseph Smith had several wives, 40 from the sources I have read. Some of these wives he married when they were only 14 or 15 years old. He was no more than a pedophile. It is starting to get deep in here, better get my shovel-pot stirring time. Joseph Smith was running around in the 1800s right? Wasn't it pretty common to marry at a young age back then? Wasn't the average life span much shorter?

Also as for indians coming from asia....you can trace us all back to eden or a fish or monkey....so there goes that. Plus what say you to the idea of Pangea?

OK since we are having mormon talk, could someone tell me the real deal with the Long Underwear that I have heard about. Do you really wear that stuff year round?

 

[Bubba700]

Reason I ask, if you do why is it so hard to believe and use a book in your teaching that is full of writings of prophets being visited by angels and doing magnificent things in the name of God, yet for it to happen in present times it seems so far and outlandish to you?- I'm a firm christian guy...but I gotta admit I've wondered on this a time or two.

Joseph Smith had several wives, 40 from the sources I have read. Some of these wives he married when they were only 14 or 15 years old. He was no more than a pedophile. It is starting to get deep in here, better get my shovel-pot stirring time. Joseph Smith was running around in the 1800s right? Wasn't it pretty common to marry at a young age back then? Wasn't the average life span much shorter?

Also as for indians coming from asia....you can trace us all back to eden or a fish or monkey....so there goes that. Plus what say you to the idea of Pangea?

OK since we are having mormon talk, could someone tell me the real deal with the Long Underwear that I have heard about. Do you really wear that stuff year round?

Yea, and trust me no one was feeling the pinch and roll, gold bond thread than us. Man 98 degrees in Minnie, humid and up in an attic running wire for security systems, not the time to want to be wearing 2 layers. But you make a promise to god and no where is their a disclamier,* except when its hot and muggy. Thanks for askin X