Consensus on 858 Weight

[boondocker97]

Cat released some new videos on it's YouTube channel in the last day or two. They aren't very informative (shocker), but I found a hidden gem in the fine print on screen of the 858 Engine video. There's always been some discrepancy on if Cat meant to say the new 858 is lighter than the 600 or the old 800. It seems we finally have something in print about that:



While lighter than the old 800 is good, lots of us were hoping it would be lighter than the current 600.

 

[Chewy22]

I've seen ad posts on fakebook saying the engine provides 11% more power and torque in a package that's 4% lighter then the previous 794cc engine.

 

[spoon]

I thought the 600 weighed almost the same as the 800?

 

[sledhead_24_7]

My take is, at the end of the day the old cats were way heavy, and the new one is equal to or slightly lighter than the competition.


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[boondocker97]

I thought the 600 weighed almost the same as the 800?

It might. Same lightened crank and uses the engine plate mounting system, same APV system, Ctec injection system. Smaller 600 cylinders and I don't know if the recoil assembly on the Mag side is the same.

Wonder what they'd say if a guy showed up to the Island Park demo ride with a set of portable scales?

 

[NHRoadking]

It's weird that Cat is letting people place orders for their new sleds but still hasn't posted dry weights. That tells me that the must not be as light as they hoped.

 

[Tahoepow]

All the mystery around the 858 M catalyst is making me really not want to go out on a limb and snow check one. HP, dry weights, clutching, low, mid, high range engine performance not explained at all. Couple of 1/2 hearted ride reviews. It's like leaping in with blind faith and giving AC 20k. And AC doesn't seem to care. Dealers dont know any specific numbers either. If dealers had some real info someone would post legit details about the missing specs. Right...?

 

[boondocker97]

Cat hasn't listed dry weights since the M-series... you know the last time they built light sleds before the Catalyst. It's dumb. Especially when they put weights on the spec sheets they are shipped with anyway.

 

[Griff]

It sure looks like a fun and excellent performing sled regardless of the specs. I hope to be riding a 2026. I'm in the show me camp. The manufacturers haven't had to work very hard to get our business. They can sell sleds without demo rides and specs. Hard to argue with their approach right now even though it doesn't work for me.

 

[boondocker97]

Nice little video from SnowTrax with discussion on the 858 engine architecture.

 

[MTsled3]

I don't think the weight matters a whole lot if the chassis is well-balanced.

For example, my 9r is 445ish lbs. dry (after e start and an HPS can).

My 800 Axys was 393ish with the parts I had on it.

That's a 52lb difference between the two, but it does not feel like it at all.

If the Catalyst is as well balanced as the reviews seem to say, it'll ride plenty light no matter what the number is on paper.

 

[Clark42]

I don't think the weight matters a whole lot if the chassis is well-balanced.

For example, my 9r is 445ish lbs. dry (after e start and an HPS can).

My 800 Axys was 393ish with the parts I had on it.

That's a 52lb difference between the two, but it does not feel like it at all.

If the Catalyst is as well balanced as the reviews seem to say, it'll ride plenty light no matter what the number is on paper.

Hey! Hey you! Get the f#%k out of here speaking with reasonable logic!! The Bardant gods have spoken and they say lightweight on the scale at all costs!

 

[Old & slow]

Dry weight is a hard one for me example Skidoo claims a 2024 turbo r expert 154 weights 449 dry and when weighted wet it was 545 that's a 96 pound difference. 9.5 gallons of fuel @ 6.16 pounds per us gallon 58.5 lbs. There is still 37.5 pounds to account for, 6 pounds for injection oil 1.5 for chain case oil. Leaving 30 lbs for coolant. They don't list coolant capacity so I don't know how much it holds but I doubt its 30 pounds worth. The coolant weight is probably close to 10 or 12 lbs leaving 18 to 20 pounds missing.
Dry weights could be a good measurement if all the manufactures used the same criteria and same scale lol but they don't. I'd rather they get the tracking thing talking between brands than worry about dry weight. Also as stated above the weight placement is more important than the amount of it. Demo rides start Saturday so we should be getting some reports soon from random strangers.

 

[Krause09]

I have the new 600 and an ascender 800 with all the “cool kid”mods! I do not enjoy riding the alpha 800. The catalyst feels so much better even with 40 less hp. 858 snowchecked!

 

[spoon]

I have the new 600 and an ascender 800 with all the “cool kid”mods! I do not enjoy riding the alpha 800. The catalyst feels so much better even with 40 less hp. 858 snowchecked!

With your height I am sure the smaller chassis Catalyst is easier to ride. Do you carry a step stool to get on and off?

 

[Teth-Air]

Dry weight is a hard one for me example Skidoo claims a 2024 turbo r expert 154 weights 449 dry and when weighted wet it was 545 that's a 96 pound difference. 9.5 gallons of fuel @ 6.16 pounds per us gallon 58.5 lbs. There is still 37.5 pounds to account for, 6 pounds for injection oil 1.5 for chain case oil. Leaving 30 lbs for coolant. They don't list coolant capacity so I don't know how much it holds but I doubt its 30 pounds worth. The coolant weight is probably close to 10 or 12 lbs leaving 18 to 20 pounds missing.
Dry weights could be a good measurement if all the manufactures used the same criteria and same scale lol but they don't. I'd rather they get the tracking thing talking between brands than worry about dry weight. Also as stated above the weight placement is more important than the amount of it. Demo rides start Saturday so we should be getting some reports soon from random strangers.

They weigh without shock oil, coolant, fuel, injector oil, no spare belt, no tools, no scratchers, and likely with the the lightest track option available. I wouldn't be surprised if they subtract 5 lbs for grease too.

 

[gforce_15]

Snowest podcast just posted a video today of 'wet' weights of the mountain sleds in their fleet. The Catalyst M6 154x3 non e-start weighed in at 513lb full of fuel/oil/coolant and a spare belt. They speak of the engineers claiming the 858 engine 'package' is 3lb lighter than the 600 so expecting around 510lb wet weight of the 858 154x3 non e start

 

[GlennRMK]

Snowest podcast just posted a video today of 'wet' weights of the mountain sleds in their fleet. The Catalyst M6 154x3 non e-start weighed in at 513lb full of fuel/oil/coolant and a spare belt. They speak of the engineers claiming the 858 engine 'package' is 3lb lighter than the 600 so expecting around 510lb wet weight of the 858 154x3 non e start

The 600 has coil over shocks, so I expect the "Base" 858 to be that weight. I assume the air shocks on the Mountain Cat are a little lighter? So it should be about the same weight as the 9R.

They had a 23 9R 155 non 7S 2.75 at 507. A 24 9R 155 7S with the 3.25 at 519.

Good to see Cat going in the right direction.

 

[boondocker97]

Dry weight is just that. Bare, dry parts. No shock oil, brake fluid, grease, loctite, oil, coolant, or fuel of any kind. Probably not the silicone or glue used to seal and hold things together either. Someone within the industry told me that Polaris went so far as to weigh multiples of the individual parts, then use the cumulative of all of the lightest parts for their dry weights.

IMO the weight that matters most for comparisons is "crate weight" with all fluids minus fuel for operation since tank capacities vary. After that full wet weight. Dry weight last. Everyone has their own opinions on what metric is most important to them.

 

[mn.nytronut]

I don't think the weight matters a whole lot if the chassis is well-balanced.

For example, my 9r is 445ish lbs. dry (after e start and an HPS can).

My 800 Axys was 393ish with the parts I had on it.

That's a 52lb difference between the two, but it does not feel like it at all.

If the Catalyst is as well balanced as the reviews seem to say, it'll ride plenty light no matter what the number is on paper.

Wow you have Burandt #'s nice job