Brand Bashing Yamaha Sleds

[05900]

Had to go up a few posts to see that this wasn't the Arctic Cat section

In context the Viper is quite progressive from previous offerings from Yamaha
and better than Arctic Cat's 4 stroke anchor.

To say it is a game changer is as laughable as Ski Doo's titan package hype
But it looks to be a step in the right direction and we'll see how large a step when the snow starts to fall !!!

It's fun to see all the preseason excitement and posts of what may happen and everyone's wants of the manufacturers.

What would we do all summer without this?

 

[LoudHandle]

We all have opinions. BUT, the true test of a sled is how much aftermarket stuff is sold for it. Nytro had boatloads of lightening stuff for obvious reasons. Poo has boatloads of engine stuff....etc.

How much aftermarket stuff do you see for a Nytro engine or a 2014 Proclimb chassis?

I disagree with your logic, the main reason for the quantity of Polaris stuff is they have historically held more than 50% of all sled sales. The other 3 are fighting for the rest.

As for the Nytro proclimb comment;
I don't know, neither is even on my radar for consideration. For the reasons I stated. I don't even really look at what is offered for Polaris because most of the aftermarket offerings are not to my standards. The few parts I have had made, I approached the vendor and gave them my specifications. The rest I build myself.

 

[christopher]

How much aftermarket stuff do you see for a Nytro engine or a 2014 Proclimb chassis?

Is there any other sled engine out there that has more available POWER mods for it than the Yamaha Genesis?

I don't think there is another engine out there that is more forgiving and more willing to be upgraded to extract more horsepower while NOT grenading or just wearing out as a result of it.

Hate em for the weight, but you get get 225 - 250hp all day long, year after year, out of their engines. Unbelievably well made.

Team Yamaha.
If you are reading this.
WHERE IS OUR NEW PROMISED ENGINE?

I can only imagine what we could do with a brand new design built to the same quality standards as the Genesis.

 

[stingray719]

I disagree with your logic, the main reason for the quantity of Polaris stuff is they have historically held more than 50% of all sled sales. The other 3 are fighting for the rest.

As for the Nytro proclimb comment;
I don't know, neither is even on my radar for consideration. For the reasons I stated. I don't even really look at what is offered for Polaris because most of the aftermarket offerings are not to my standards. The few parts I have had made, I approached the vendor and gave them my specifications. The rest I build myself.

Let me explain a little more of what I meant. You don't see cylinder fixes for a Yamaha because they were built too flimsy like the Poo. Its a well known issue that several vendors make a fix for on the Polaris.

I could go on forever but I think you get my drift, vendors sell what you will buy....whether it is speed parts for a Yamaha or parts to make your sled live more than 5k miles. You can get an unbiased view of the sled from what vendors sell the most of (Like SKIS for Arctic Cat...lolol)

 

[christopher]

"Fix kits" are an interesting example of what's "broken" on sleds.
The steering correction kit on the nytro would be a perfect example.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk 2 pro.

 

[Deep Powder Guy]

If everyone agreed LOL never gonna happen.

DPG

 

[christopher]

If everyone agreed LOL never gonna happen.

DPG

How boring would life be if everyone agreed!

 

[LoudHandle]

How boring would life be if everyone agreed!

Exactly! In cliche form "If everyone thought alike, then nobody is thinking"! We would go the way of the buffalo / bison ( I forgot) where if the leader of the herd happens to step off a cliff, they all follow suit. At least that's the story my parents told us. As well as the jump of a bridge analogy.

I've always been an "intellectual rebel" just so no one try's to pigeon hole me as being normal. Always thinking outside of the box. Disagreeing with the norm to spur further thought and conversations.

Sorry for the detour, back to why do we pick on the Yammi's and their faithful although small pack of hardcore fans. You seem fairly normal, did your parents drop you on your heads too many times or was that the other 90% of us snowmobiler's? : ) LOL

 

[christopher]

Exactly! In cliche form "If everyone thought alike, then nobody is thinking"! We would go the way of the buffalo / bison ( I forgot) where if the leader of the herd happens to step off a cliff, they all follow suit. At least that's the story my parents told us. As well as the jump of a bridge analogy.

 

[christopher]

Sorry for the detour, back to why do we pick on the Yammi's and their faithful although small pack of hardcore fans. You seem fairly normal, did your parents drop you on your heads too many times or was that the other 90% of us snowmobiler's? : ) LOL

 

[couch]

Oh joy, look who's back spreading happiness everywhere he goes.
Mr. Sunshine himself.

Ya, about the video.
Sorry bud.
NOT a Sham.
NOT a Pack of Lies.
NOT an insult to everyone's intelligence.

The problem with reality is that when YOU disagree with it, it just doesn't care what you think. The truth stands apart from your opinion.

Replicate the exact same conditions, and you will get the exact same results.

Oh, and as for my "Blind Support".
Dream on bud.
Yamaha builds the most reliable, highest quality, longest lasting snowmobiles on the market with the best made engines in the industry.

Lets see, their current scrore card reads.

#1 in Reliability
#1 in Fuel Economy
#1 in Ease of Operation
#1 in Low Emissions
#1 in Low Cost of Operation
#1 in Resale Value

Not sure I can support all the 1st's that are claimed here .... and yes I have a ****load of Yamahas in the shed ....
ditched the 08 Nytros - waaaayyy too heavy up front without a boatload of $$$ to attempt to fix, burned through slides crazy fast, don't start on ball joints .... 600 Poo is close on fuel usage and a hell of a lot more FUN to ride. Other than stupid issues, Yamahas are pretty much gas and go but then again so was the 600 Pro (1000 miles on each this season with no repairs).
Is the new Viper better - likely much better than the nytro chassis - but it is a hybrid (Zebra as Archie Bunker would say) so you can't really claim its pure blue.
As for the video, I take it with a grain of salt and will hold my opinion till I see the difference in person ... waayy too many variables that could skew the results.

I don't think any one sled is perfect so ride what you like and what works for you.

 

[christopher]

I don't think any one sled is perfect so ride what you like and what works for you.

And on that we agree completely.

 

[snowmobiler]

google.

"We expect a 2015 Yamaha SR Viper M-TX 162” to be about 600 pounds wet weight"

 

[christopher]

http://sledrumors.com/page/2/

You can’t believe everything you hear on the trail or on the mountain. Rumors about snowmobiles are about as believable and numerous as stories about Bigfoot. That’s why we try to round up all the info we can about top secret sleds and post it here for your education and for comment. Other sites aren’t allowed to post information on sled that haven’t been officially released, but here at sledrumors.com we’ll post just about anything snowmobile related. So check back often for the inside scoop on the hot gossip in the snowmobile world


=========================

2015 Yamaha Viper Weight, Horsepower and First Ride Report
February 15, 2014

2015 Yamaha Viper Weight, Horsepower and First Ride Report: 2015 Yamaha SR Viper M-TX SE/LE and SR Viper X-TX LE

Riding the new 2015 Yamaha mountain sleds near West Yellowstone, Montana, we now see Yamaha’s renewed commitment to mountain riders. All 7 Viper variations were equipped with the Mountain Performance (MPI) turbo set at 6 pounds of boost. At that level we get 180 horsepower, a little more than a M1100 Turbo. The Arctic Cat is running about 14 pounds of boost and gets 175 horsepower.


Yamaha staff at the ride only had preliminary numbers for weight and power. Calibrations for clutching, suspension and turbo mapping have not been finalized. These were all prototypes that will never be sold to the public.

Weight
We expect a 2015 Yamaha SR Viper M-TX 162” to be about 600 pounds wet weight.
This would make it about 35 pounds lighter than a 2014 Arctic Cat M9000 162” and
about 25 pounds heavier than a 2014 Arctic Cat M8000 162” with a turbo and electric start.
25 pounds heavier than the M8.
Take a 2014 Polaris Pro RMK 800 163” with a turbo and electric start (the lightest sled on the market with those specs), and your only about 60 pounds difference.

We all know dry weight is bogus. I don’t know anyone that rides a sled dry. The best comparison for weight will be weights of production sleds, wet with 3 gallons of fuel in every and two quarts of oil in the oil tanks of the 2 strokes. Sledrumors plans to weight each of the sleds this way after they are delivered in the Fall. What do you think about these weight claims/estimates? Give us your comments below.

Horsepower
I don’t know if anyone will buy a 2015 Yamaha SR Viper M-TX SE/LE or a SR Viper X-TX LE without a turbo, but for mountain riding, boost makes all the difference on this sled. Yamaha is offering a MPI Turbo with airbox instead of intercooler and will be set for 6-7 pounds of boost at 180 HP. All this for $2,000 more on the Powersurge Program making it a no-brainer to drop $500 in the Spring to reserve one.

From there, we have two options, 1) ride the sled under factory warranty with a Yamaha dealer installed turbo or 2) work with a dealer that will exchange the airbox and standard wastegate for the upgraded MPI intercooler and better components. Use race gas and turn boost to 12-15 lbs to get up to 230 horsepower.

Viper Losses
After riding each of the models, banging on hills and riding through the trees, there are some obvious opportunities to improve the Viper. In the deep powder, the skis feel too narrow, and they are. They ought to work a deal with SLP and bolt on the new Mohawk or something a little wider. The bumpers are still weak and Speedwerx has some good options. The Fox Evol shocks were setup too stiff, but Yamaha explained that they were still working on calibration settings. It was what wasn’t disappointing that was shocking.

Viper Wins
The sleds were all light and nimble, especially the 2015 SR Viper X-TX 141 with the 2.25 track. (this one is only available with that track on Powersurge orders) The Fox Float 3 shock were almost perfect on the LE models. The clutch engagement is low, the power comes on early and builds quickly when you want it, a torque monster with plenty of punch to pack the ski’s if you want it. Sidehilling was easy, tight turns on and off power in the trees was unlike any other 4-stroke sleds we’ve ridden.

Differences between Yamaha and Arctic Cat versions
Yamaha has their own clutching calibrations, a partnership with MPI for boost and suspension settings. In addition, the rails and front torque arm are new from Yamaha. The windshield makes it look more Yamaha, but it’s weird. Yamaha also made the vertical steering post stiffer and more durable, and we could feel it on the ride. Overall, Yamaha was very involved in pre-production quality control to meet or exceed the Yamaha durability, fit and finish standards.


NEW 2015 Yamaha srVIPER M-TX 162 LE
Seven years ago, Yamaha introduced the popular Nytro MTX powered by their 3 cylinder Genesis motor. With a Mountain Performance Turbo, 200+ horsepower with a little extra weight was a viable option agains the unreliable 2008 Dragon and Summit. 800 Class sleds are more reliable, lighter and work pretty good with turbos.
Four years ago, Arctic Cat announced the M1100 Turbo, a 2-cylinder with a factory installed turbo. Apparently, that got Yamaha’s attention. The Yamaha-Cat relationship was consummated last year with the 2014 Arctic Cat XF 7000 and the 2014 Yamaha srViper X-TX.

For 2015, Yamaha takes the Arctic Cat M9000 and replaces the CTEC4 (2 cylinder 1100 turbo) with the Genesis 3 cylinder powerplant.

Instead of a factory installed turbo like Arctic Cat, Yamaha will offer the Mountain Performance turbo as an accessory option. When installed by your favorite Yamaha sled dealer, you’ll keep the full factory warranty.

The price for the 2015 srVIPER M-TX 162 LE is $13,349 and $15,349 with a MPI Turbo. Compared to the 2014 M9000 162 at $400 less.

A full review of the technical specifications, weight and horsepower comparisons to the Nytro MTX and the M9000 will be available on sledrumors.com February 15.
Owners or prior owners of the M1100Turbo or NytroMTX, please post your comments! Is this enough switch back from 2-stroke to 4-stroke?

 

[turbo800]

This part caught me off guard...

"Riding the new 2015 Yamaha mountain sleds near West Yellowstone, Montana, we now see Yamaha’s renewed commitment to mountain riders. All 7 Viper variations were equipped with the Mountain Performance (MPI) turbo set at 6 pounds of boost. At that level we get 180 horsepower, a little more than a M1100 Turbo. The Arctic Cat is running about 14 pounds of boost and gets 175 horsepower."

 

[christopher]

the Mountain Performance (MPI) turbo set at 6 pounds of boost. At that level we get 180 horsepower, a little more than a M1100 Turbo. The Arctic Cat is running about 14 pounds of boost and gets 175 horsepower."

And you wonder why the AC is using so much more boost and getting less total HP..

 

[turbo800]

And you wonder why the AC is using so much more boost and getting less total HP..

My first guess, the Cat is running a smaller turbo and not moving as much air.

Less air = more boost, more heat, for similar HP.

 

[christopher]

My first guess, the Cat is running a smaller turbo and not moving as much air.

Less air = more boost, more heat, for similar HP.

Nope.
Don't think it works that way unless the size of the cat motor is significantly different in total displacement than the Yamaha.

If they are more or less equal displacement, then total boost is pretty relative to total intake charge in CCs of compressed air.

Something else is going on here...
Yamaha = 1049cc
Cat = 1056cc

Thats pretty much identical in my book.

Roughly speaking, every 1lb of boost SHOULD develop around 10hp of additional power.

 

[turbo800]

Nope.
Don't think it works that way unless the size of the cat motor is significantly different in total displacement than the Yamaha.

If they are more or less equal displacement, then total boost is pretty relative to total intake charge in CCs of compressed air.

Something else is going on here...
Yamaha = 1049cc
Cat = 1056cc

Thats pretty much identical in my book.

Roughly speaking, every 1lb of boost SHOULD develop around 10hp of additional power.

Think of a small turbo like a garden hose, high pressure low volume.

Think of a big turbo like a fire hose, low pressure high volume.

To flow similar amounts, the small one has to have a higher pressure to flow similar amounts in a given amount of time.


In most cases where the work is shared between 3 cylinders instead of 2 for the same amount of CC's, the triple will make more power!

 

[christopher]

Think of a small turbo like a garden hose, high pressure low volume.

Think of a big turbo like a fire hose, low pressure high volume.

To flow similar amounts, the small one has to have a higher pressure to flow similar amounts in a given amount of time.

Hmm
Given nearly identical engine sizes, I would have thought that 6lbs of boost would be the same total volume of compressed air in both engines.

Granted, I am no turbo expert by any stretch of the imagination, but..
Something ain't right here.

So what you're telling me is that these two engines are NOT running the same boost inside the engine cylinder.???