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mtn-doo
Well-known member
They are in this thread further back. If you have any questions, call or P.M. any time. Thanks
"Best all around Bike?" 2013 Build Project
- Thread starter mtn-doo
- Start date
They are in this thread further back. If you have any questions, call or P.M. any time. Thanks
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Little Eddy
Well-known member
2013 vs 2008
Mtn-Doo ... Great post with lots of good info and good looking bike !!!!
I am just in the process of getting into the snobikes and about to purchase a 2008 450 SX-F . Not sure if this will be my "thing " so figured to start on a used bike to keep costs down. After reading your post, I am wondering if I would be wiser to just buy the new 450 SX-F and replicate what you have done to get it going. The 2008 is a carbed bike and has a 4 speed trans and probably less power than what you are starting with. I have heard that the carb bike can be pretty hard starting when cold. Probably not going to turbo for now but if in the future is it feasible to turbo the carbed version. Was also wondering if an engine blanket of sorts to cover the front and sides would be of any help in keeping the temps up.
If you have any thoughts or experience on the 2008 vs the 2013 that you would care to share on this post it would be great to hear about them.
Mtn-Doo ... Great post with lots of good info and good looking bike !!!!
I am just in the process of getting into the snobikes and about to purchase a 2008 450 SX-F . Not sure if this will be my "thing " so figured to start on a used bike to keep costs down. After reading your post, I am wondering if I would be wiser to just buy the new 450 SX-F and replicate what you have done to get it going. The 2008 is a carbed bike and has a 4 speed trans and probably less power than what you are starting with. I have heard that the carb bike can be pretty hard starting when cold. Probably not going to turbo for now but if in the future is it feasible to turbo the carbed version. Was also wondering if an engine blanket of sorts to cover the front and sides would be of any help in keeping the temps up.
If you have any thoughts or experience on the 2008 vs the 2013 that you would care to share on this post it would be great to hear about them.
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mtn-doo
Well-known member
The #1 concern is the 4 speed trans. Gearing will be frustrating at best. More gears and close or semi-close work best. The wide ratio 5 speeds work good on the 500XCW but the 3rd gear stretch is sometimes a problem. Trying to solve those issues with a 4 speed will be tough.
As far as the engine goes, it is awesome. Several 450 carbed ktm's out there. They actually kick butt on the newer EFI's. Also no EFI tuning issues or gas in the oil. I would jump on a good deal for a used, carbbed MX 450F, but the 4 spd in that one I would pass on.
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mtn-doo
Well-known member
Hey guys, I have had a lot of "pod" and intake questions this week. I thought I would go a little deeper on the importance of understanding the intake boot and it's effects. The manufacturer's have precisely tuned the length, diameter, taper, rate of taper of the intake boot for the specific engines performance. When you are experimenting with intake and "pod" ideas, it is very important to closely replicate the "velocity stack", "ventury" design the manufacturer has determined and "built in the intake boot" for your specific engine.
Any form of intake will allow your engine to run, but with large deficits to performance. Take some close measurements of the stock boot. Small diameter length, taper "up" length and rate. Then design your system around those measurements.
I will attach some explinations from the old French physicist, Bernulli...;
Modern engines universally have tuned intake tract volumes and associated resonance frequencies, designed to provide higher than atmospheric intake air pressure while the intake valves are open - increasing the density of the trapped air in the combustion chamber (higher compression). Modified engines often have the original air box and associated ducting removed and velocity stacks are installed as accessories.
Modern fuel injection systems with a plenum and single air inlet typically incorporate some sort of radiused entrance, designed to improve power, based on air flow increases. Power gains are usually at higher rpm.
The length of the stack is known to have a direct effect on a particular engine's boosted power range.
Image; *** enlarge the second image*** very good visual representation
Any form of intake will allow your engine to run, but with large deficits to performance. Take some close measurements of the stock boot. Small diameter length, taper "up" length and rate. Then design your system around those measurements.
I will attach some explinations from the old French physicist, Bernulli...;
Modern engines universally have tuned intake tract volumes and associated resonance frequencies, designed to provide higher than atmospheric intake air pressure while the intake valves are open - increasing the density of the trapped air in the combustion chamber (higher compression). Modified engines often have the original air box and associated ducting removed and velocity stacks are installed as accessories.
Modern fuel injection systems with a plenum and single air inlet typically incorporate some sort of radiused entrance, designed to improve power, based on air flow increases. Power gains are usually at higher rpm.
The length of the stack is known to have a direct effect on a particular engine's boosted power range.
Image; *** enlarge the second image*** very good visual representation
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mtn-doo
Well-known member
Belleville spring up-grade. Hey guys, I imagine everyone knows the 13.5 and Dungy models to current run the 280 spring. The 2013 model runs a 250 spring. The 280 simply applies more pressure to your clutch stack. Quicker lock-up's and more holding power. Here is a quick install. Remove your clutch cover, remove the 6 hub bolts, remove the hub and Belleville spring washer. When installing the 280, be sure and index it properly to the stiffest setting. To do this, find the marks, I, II, III or X, Y, Z on the center hub next to the bolt holes. Install one 6mil bolt in the hole marked III or Z then find any one of the six bolt holes and turn in in a few turns with your finger. Then take your remaining 5 bolts and install. Starting with your first in the III or Z hole will properly index you to the stiffer setting. Be sure to not over torque. Over torquing will cause clutch drag. Torque to 55 in/lbs or 4.8 ft/lbs.
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mtn-doo
Well-known member
Grip warmers. A tech coached me on the relay and signal wire set-up for the SXF I posted earlier. Mine is wired up and ready to go. I have not run it yet. A friend, "Gary", got the first test day. It appears the stator for the SXF will fall short of the load. The total wattage of the Grips and EFI are less than the wattage out-put, however Gary found a slow gradual loss in voltage as he rode. Eventually you would go dead..... That is great info Gary! Thank you.
Trail Tech, Enduro Dr., Moose, etc have stators that may solve the problem. We will play with it and post what we come up with!
Trail Tech, Enduro Dr., Moose, etc have stators that may solve the problem. We will play with it and post what we come up with!
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mtn-doo
Well-known member
Future tuning aids, I will be doing some testing later this season as well as recording the stock air/fuel performance as a base line. KOSO makes a small AFR tuning aide specifically for race teams. It has a small stainless probe and a stand alone electrical system. No wiring required, and a 30 second swap from one bike to another. Very handy to have one of these in your shop. The SXF450 idles perfectly with an AFR of 12.6 I will record stock numbers at altitude.
http://www.kosonorthamerica.com/kos...cle_gauges/narrow-band-af-ratio-mini-meter-4/
http://www.kosonorthamerica.com/kos...cle_gauges/narrow-band-af-ratio-mini-meter-4/
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mtn-doo
Well-known member
Hey guys, I installed a P3 Carbon fiber skid plate last week. It goes high in the front and has "wings" high on the sides. It is not insulating the engine but will be a protection for the crank case and lower engine. The direct contact of the aluminum case and snow. That is our oil sump. The crank case plowing through pow all day, cold snow directly on the aluminum case, keeps the oil sump super cold. That cold oil is pumped through the engine further cooling everything. I am sure a "tall" coverage skid plate will raise oil temps significantly.
I got a similar skid plate but made by e-line. I was thinking of filling the void between case and skid plate with something. Keep the oil hot. Maybe some sort of closed cell foam. Old camping pad or something like that.
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mtn-doo
Well-known member
Spray foam? Good idea
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JimBridger
Well-known member
I just used regular fiberglass insulation. lol I needed some pink on my bike anyway.
Just want something that won't hold ice and water and won't stick to engine. Is there a way to spray foam and not get it to stick to everything? Need to get the plate off for oil changes too.
a closed cell foam would work great, if a guy got a sheet of it and cut some sections to fit behind the plate. I could see it getting eaten up pretty badly from vibration, but skid plate with foam on the front of the motor, and a little better snow deflection in the rear and the bike might actually run halfway good in the snow!
if there was something that wouldnt be such a nightmare to get out for summer like spray foam, that would be perfect. just blow in, fits tight, done. good R value as well
i need to stop working on the house. to many home improvement ideas for the bikes.
if there was something that wouldnt be such a nightmare to get out for summer like spray foam, that would be perfect. just blow in, fits tight, done. good R value as well
i need to stop working on the house. to many home improvement ideas for the bikes.
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mtn-doo
Well-known member
Good idea Nick, I am going to get a piece of Black, closed cel foam, about 1, 1&1/2 thick. Lay it inside my carbon fiber skid plate, cut to fit precisely. Some light adhesive to stick it to the Carbon Fiber. Then a slight "press to fit", snug, and install fasteners. I could trim the edges "after" the install. Tapered cut. The entire lower unit would be dry and warm. Doesn't help the cylinder temps, but keeping the lower case and oil sump warm will have to have positive benefits. Actually, raising oil temps WILL raise cylinder temps. The cold oil circulating through the head is a huge heat killer. I am going to take a thermometer and read "oil temps" while riding, before and after the insulated skid plate and record the difference. On my "to do" list! Spray expanding foam would be a disaster!!! Ha
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mxracer299
Well-known member
While we're on the topic of engine temps.... I tried the spray foam, it ALMOST worked... and on to plan B! haha I'm thinking of some foam between the engine and skid plate and I started making some snow shields, made a tunnel on the front part of the skid to keep snow from getting thrown on the back of the engine, I wrapped the header and I'm building a snow shield on the exhaust side that's going OVER the header to help keep the heat in the engine compartment, i'll heat tape the inside of the shield. Anyway heres a couple pics of progress so far!
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mxracer299
Well-known member
Here's the exhaust side. Most of the shields I've seen have to be removed to change oil so I put U nut on the skid plate and now I can unbolt the three bolts on the bottom of the shield and drop the skid plate, i'm going to do something similar on the left side. I wrapped it all the way to the airbox to keep as much heat as possible in. It turned out very slim and fits really well, I think I may have to tidy up the other side now to match. I'm using stock car plastic for everything, it's $20 for a 2'x10' roll and comes in all kinds of colors... awesome stuff!!!
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mxracer299
Well-known member
Here's the other side with a redone shield and oil filter acess panel mounted to the skid plate, undo the bolts and drop the skid plate... oil changes made easy!
