Belt Blower - Opinions needed ASAP!!!
- Thread starter mrquick68
- Start date
Bravo! I think your on to something with the lower gear shift out change. One further question I have is what if any RPM change did you notice after gear down? Does the engine free wind easier at higher rpm through shift out? Might want to try a little less angle helix. Just a thought. I still have a concern about the engine moving too much from front to back,,, meaning under load does the engine move towards the driven clutch alot? That would explain the outside string pulling thing. Because if you think about it, that would put the belt in inward curve like this ) looking down at the clutches from in the saddle, which would try to pull the string straight on top between the clutches. I am very interested in this for the knowledge. Just a computer sledder for now but this sport is in my blood, and at some point,,, I will get back in and this is the sled I will buy unless it all changes. Pray for a better tomorrow...
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H
homeycat
Member
does the belt look heat checked? simple things first would be to do exact oppisite of what your dealer did with the alignment. i took the bolt and all the shims out ran the sled in the air and measured it after it stopped rolling. find the distance where it floated to and shim the secondary to that. if its pulling cords i think it has alignment prob. i feel your pain!!! went through this all last year....
i'd like to know if 1000 owners w/ belt issues also have Ti primary springs??? Confirm or deny...
I'm having the same symptoms as you meaning primary hottest belt second and seconday slightly cooler. I am running a yellow with white spring in primary, RKT secondary with sno pro green in middle hole. Alignment has been checked several times. Running 57/63 gears. I'm sure I can get many miles from a belt if riding on harder snow or if I were to ride a lot of trail. But if I put it on a hillside with a lot of snow and hold it open for long runs it gets extremely hot. There have been days that I would blow 2 belts. Extremely expensive snowmobiling. I have had many snowmobiles and never experienced anything like this. I really hope this thread comes up with a solution because too many people are experiencing this dilemma with the 1000. I was talking to a guy that works at Timbersled. He rides a 1000. He told me his sled is hard on belts. He hasn't been able to find a solution. I almost sure it's not because of the power the 1000 makes because I have rode with guys that had PSI engines making a ton of power and not having this problem with belts. I'm wondering if there's a way to tell how much these motors move in the chassis when under full power. Maybe the motor mounts are too soft? I saw somewhere where each year AC is changing the part numbers for the motor mounts. Are they getting harder?
Sawyer, I think you're right on the motor mount thing.. How hard would it be to fab up a couple mounts, one for the right front and one for the left rear?? With the torque of these motors and the faster shifting there HAS TO BE more torque flex on the stock motor mounts. With the mount failures I've read about in other threads on here I would study this area extensively. It's just like gearing down a truck or street car, the more you move the torque around meaning from the engine to the clutch to the drive train something has to give... In the case of a car when you gear down the drive train takes more of the abuse.Hmmm, thinking about that,, with higher gearing in a car more of the torque is kept at the engine hence broken motor mounts.. Any body power brake a big ol sled and have a motor mount go?? I have, so I would look at the motor for too much movement or too soft of motor mounts. With the length of these tracks, and the bite they have especially in deep snow, in some way would act like higher gearing I think. And even though the clutches are shifting all the way out, between the torque of the engine and the pull of the track something is giving up. I would guess the motor mounts. I don't know just rambling now my brain is starting too melt.
on the motor mount issue ive heard of people carving solid ones out of hockey pucks to stiffen them up. just an idea.
as for the rest of this post, i'll be sure to keep tabs on this as it sounds like my m7 has pretty much the same issue. primary is hotter, black streak about half way around the outside of the primary and ive blown a couple belts. except mine isn't just pullin strings its grenading the outside layer into a million little pieces but the rest of the belt looks fine. i've noticed that my m7 only seems to be slipping when its wide open for a bit, like on a long pull i will start to smell belt burning. i have cutler adjustables set with pretty light tips so first thing im gonna try is moving a bit of weight to the tips to see what happens. i also have a gold primary spring i might try again. if that dont help i might try swapping out my stiff cat orange sec. spring for a bit softer one to see if that helps balance the clutching out a bit as i have geared down my sled to and people say that usually means u can run a softer sec. spring. hopefully this will get figured out.
as for the rest of this post, i'll be sure to keep tabs on this as it sounds like my m7 has pretty much the same issue. primary is hotter, black streak about half way around the outside of the primary and ive blown a couple belts. except mine isn't just pullin strings its grenading the outside layer into a million little pieces but the rest of the belt looks fine. i've noticed that my m7 only seems to be slipping when its wide open for a bit, like on a long pull i will start to smell belt burning. i have cutler adjustables set with pretty light tips so first thing im gonna try is moving a bit of weight to the tips to see what happens. i also have a gold primary spring i might try again. if that dont help i might try swapping out my stiff cat orange sec. spring for a bit softer one to see if that helps balance the clutching out a bit as i have geared down my sled to and people say that usually means u can run a softer sec. spring. hopefully this will get figured out.
This may help....may not
Most of the posts I've read about the M8 are saying that they have no belt issues what-so-ever. Even the race gas TM8's (which we assume to make plenty of power, probably more then the lightly modded M1000) aren't having major belt problems. So what is there that is different between the two models that would explain the vast difference in belt reliability?
Is torque alone to explain the problem? (lots of BB mod sleds and boosted rides from all manufacturers that make higher #'s)
Is it the DD or gearing? (One think that the 8's would see the same problems then).
Are the motor mounts themselves, or their location different on the models?
(can't answer that)
Done searching for a thought.
Most of the posts I've read about the M8 are saying that they have no belt issues what-so-ever. Even the race gas TM8's (which we assume to make plenty of power, probably more then the lightly modded M1000) aren't having major belt problems. So what is there that is different between the two models that would explain the vast difference in belt reliability?
Is torque alone to explain the problem? (lots of BB mod sleds and boosted rides from all manufacturers that make higher #'s)
Is it the DD or gearing? (One think that the 8's would see the same problems then).
Are the motor mounts themselves, or their location different on the models?
(can't answer that)
Done searching for a thought.
I would like to hear from some experts on this issue as alot of us are having belt issues. Vohk, Ray at BDX, Kelsey at RKT, or maybe Racin Station. Are we missing something?
m1000
09 m1ooo eating belts as well. same clutching as my o8 sled which would get 4-500 miles to a belt. 550 miles on 09 and bottom rubber mount on clutch side was ripped. i would say mounts are different and our engines are just moving to much.
09 m1ooo eating belts as well. same clutching as my o8 sled which would get 4-500 miles to a belt. 550 miles on 09 and bottom rubber mount on clutch side was ripped. i would say mounts are different and our engines are just moving to much.
well, the motor mounts could be the issue, but not every 1000 eats belts right!?
If it where the mounts, they'd all munch belts. Still something to think about i guess.
At this point in time i believe more of the issue is clutch setup in general. You need a good balance between the primary and secondary.
Also - i think the reason we always see cords pulling on the outside of the belt is because that's where the movable sheeve is coming in contact with the belt. If you have a poor clutch setup, you'll burn belts and threads will pop. Get rid of the heat, and you'll fix the issue. I believe the high gearing, poor factory alignment, and Ti spring all combine to give a piss poor result. The sleds blowing belts are those that are ridden hard (as in the DEEP in the mountains).
I'm continuing to work through theory here, so bare with me. I'll be up riding in the next few days to see if i'm on the right track.
If it where the mounts, they'd all munch belts. Still something to think about i guess.
At this point in time i believe more of the issue is clutch setup in general. You need a good balance between the primary and secondary.
Also - i think the reason we always see cords pulling on the outside of the belt is because that's where the movable sheeve is coming in contact with the belt. If you have a poor clutch setup, you'll burn belts and threads will pop. Get rid of the heat, and you'll fix the issue. I believe the high gearing, poor factory alignment, and Ti spring all combine to give a piss poor result. The sleds blowing belts are those that are ridden hard (as in the DEEP in the mountains).
I'm continuing to work through theory here, so bare with me. I'll be up riding in the next few days to see if i'm on the right track.
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parallel
check parallel and alignment your self im not kidding you done two m 1000 and are not blowing belts anymore motor has to be 60 to 90 tousand in the front of primary
check parallel and alignment your self im not kidding you done two m 1000 and are not blowing belts anymore motor has to be 60 to 90 tousand in the front of primary
well, the motor mounts could be the issue, but not every 1000 eats belts right!?
If it where the mounts, they'd all munch belts. Still something to think about i guess.
At this point in time i believe more of the issue is clutch setup in general. You need a good balance between the primary and secondary.
Also - i think the reason we always see cords pulling on the outside of the belt is because that's where the movable sheeve is coming in contact with the belt. If you have a poor clutch setup, you'll burn belts and threads will pop. Get rid of the heat, and you'll fix the issue. I believe the high gearing, poor factory alignment, and Ti spring all combine to give a piss poor result. The sleds blowing belts are those that are ridden hard (as in the DEEP in the mountains).
I'm continuing to work through theory here, so bare with me. I'll be up riding in the next few days to see if i'm on the right track.
I'm wondering about a couple of things here Quick. First is your thoughts that If it were the mounts everyone would be blowing belts. But I have to wonder if the people who get all this life out of their belts are really riding in deep snow on steep mountain sides under WFO throttle making long pulls. Maybe they are maybe they arent. I have run into a lot of people who talk like they are King Crap on the hillside but when you go ride with them they are mostly spectators sitting around talking smack and drinking beer. You know as well as I you are only as good as the people you ride against.
Secondly if you assume that it is set up, mostly all 1000's come with the orange spring in the secondary and similar setups in the primary. Now if you take these people at their word and they are all riding extremely hard we still have some sleds blowing belts and some not with virtually identical setups. I am sure going to be curious to see how your changes work out for you this weekend. It's snowing hard here so I imagine it is over there too. Should be good conditions for experimenting. Good luck.
Dennis I have been riding my M1000 for 5 years and have never had abelt problem. And I think you can see by my name I am no SPECTATOR!
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Yep just what I was talking about. 5 Years huh??? You must have been able to get an early prototype huh? You should go have another and spectate
and spectateI ment 3 years, my m1000 is a 2006 so sorry to confuse you. so go have a and get over yur self.
. so go have a and get over yur self. Are you sure you want to start off your snowest career like this Herman.
I ment 3 years, my m1000 is a 2006 so sorry to confuse you
they didn't make a 2006 M1000, though you likely bought yours at the end of 2006!
be careful with your facts on here herman - some of us are sticklers for finding any non-facts about sleds! ha ha.
what do you mean by "in front of the primary"??? This doesn't make sense to me.
The belt blowing problem due to motor mounts would very. Not all riders ride the same. Some that SAY they squeeze the throttle some times don't as much. Ran into this problem riding racing dirt bikes. Met a bunch of guys at a not so local pit one time and all they could talk about was how fast they were. Them being decked out in full riding gear and all. All I grew up wearing when riding was riggin gear. So went to race track they raced at and wooped azz never heard smack again. People ride different, so just because some don't have belt problems doesn't mean they won't. I would look at the motor mounts. I still have an issue with this smaller driven clutch not sure it totally calibrates insinc. with the drive clutch. Could the drive belt be just a little too short?? Sounds like some of the belt blowing is happening running down the trail. If the belt is even a little too short at full shift out there would be considerable stress on it. Seems to me that on the older sleds there was enough slack in the belt to push it in at least an inch or so. I do know that if these belts are squealing AT ALL at idle or just off idle when hot they are too wide or too short. If the belt sticks up out of the driven clutch more than 1/8 inch I think it is,, that too will cause the string to come out of the belt. To go with that, the belt sticking up too far also if you are using a real stiff spring with the belt like this just think where the string is,, it will be at or near sticking out of the clutch when at idle so with a real stiff spring not only is lots of squeeze already on the belt but now it has to come down into the sheaves almost snagging the outer edge of the belt as it starts on its path down into the driven clutch. I know some guys would get so frustrated with a belt issue like this that they would use a different sled brands belt that might be a little longer or narrower just a thought.
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FWIW - my belt sits almost flush in my driven clutch to get my deflection adjusted correctly (almost squealin', but not quite). I like my track spinning just a bit when its on the stand for setting the deflection. Tighter than looser.
