an interesting thought. but there are plenty of M8s with turbos running a three tower clutch putting out a lot more power than the m1000 with a three tower....
plus i know a ton of guys with 4 towers blowing belts too.
Belt Blower - Opinions needed ASAP!!!
- Thread starter mrquick68
- Start date
an interesting thought. but there are plenty of M8s with turbos running a three tower clutch putting out a lot more power than the m1000 with a three tower....
plus i know a ton of guys with 4 towers blowing belts too.
I own a belt eater too maybe not as bad as quick but I usually only get 300miles out of a belt. I don't know if I have solved my problems but I did find that a roller in my primary was toast and think that had something to do with my issues but have not rode enough with my new spider to know if that solved any issues or not. I know what your talking about with people telling you to move the secondary in and out and the dealer basically taking your money and doing nothing I did it all last season and went through 7 belts. I only have about 400 some miles this season so have not rode enough to get irritated about the amount of money I am spending on belts but I hope you do figure out the problem cause I know lots of us on 1000's have the same issue.
Well, i'll be looking through my primary tonight. i'll check all the rollers and buttons and bushings...
M
mtn_extreme
Well-known member
If I were to really try and diagnosis the problem, I would check the motor mounts and possibly go to a harder derometer mount to help control torque. The m1000 motor is a torque monster and this issue has always been a problem when you are connecting the belt to a solid direct drive. Some time back Geo had a great post about this very issue. Maybe an aftermarket torque stop???
I am just guessing as I don't have an m1000 to play with. You might pm Geo.
I am just guessing as I don't have an m1000 to play with. You might pm Geo.
A little birdy told me that he put a harder motor stop in and it made a huge difference. Now if the little birdy would just get the harder stops made!! 
There is your answer.....need to make a change to either reduce squeeze in the secondary OR add squeeze in the primary and belt blowing will go away. I'm not thinking it's alignment related, if alignment is anywhere close to good it will be good enough....and you have checked alignment.
Yep - gonna try a little softer spring in the primary for this weekend.
Just food for thought. But I rode my M1000 for 8-9 hundred hard miles last year with the original belt. Still looks good. Bought a Bar this year and I would have to shim it out .250 to make it correct with the bar. WTF. Got me thinking. Maybe with the Secondary that far in was the ticket. I shimmed it out for the last ride and it would look good according to the bar (offset & Parralism) But the clutches were hot as he!!. It’s a 08 and I had the team conversion (Sled junkys) Kit on last year. I haven’t had enough time to ride this year yet. I’m going to take it to the dealer tomorrow and see what he thinks.
Bought a Bar this year and I would have to shim it out .250 to make it correct with the bar. WTF. Got me thinking. Maybe with the Secondary that far in was the ticket. I shimmed it out for the last ride and it would look good according to the bar (offset & Parralism) But the clutches were hot as he!!. It’s a 08 and I had the team conversion (Sled junkys) Kit on last year. I haven’t had enough time to ride this year yet. I’m going to take it to the dealer tomorrow and see what he thinks.
Just food for thought. But I rode my M1000 for 8-9 hundred hard miles last year with the original belt. Still looks good.
interesting... .250" is a TON though.
my dealer said they had issues on WOT runs across a lake. The full shift out issue you mentioned above. They suggested and I agreed to putting a purple primary spring in, Only have 150 miles on my sled but no marking on my clutches or cord pops on my belt and its the 046 not the 060.
I bought my M1200 last year used and I was always pulling cords out of the outside of the belt. If I didn't hold the sled wide open belts would last a few weekends but if I drag raced, I would blow a belt in 3 or 4 600ft passes.
I was told the driven had to be moved in..closer to the DD when cords pull on the outside. I found this to be VERY true! When I use Cats alignment bar I need 1-.60 shim and 5-.30 shims. When I use the "floating method" for alignment I only needed 1-.30 shim...WOW... and now I can finally hold that thing wide open and the belt looks good!!
Now my problem is my DD is leaking??? I think my bolt is going in almost a full 1/4" further into the input gear and it's not venting?? The drive doesn't leak just sitting it only leaks when I run the sled.
I was told the driven had to be moved in..closer to the DD when cords pull on the outside. I found this to be VERY true! When I use Cats alignment bar I need 1-.60 shim and 5-.30 shims. When I use the "floating method" for alignment I only needed 1-.30 shim...WOW... and now I can finally hold that thing wide open and the belt looks good!!
Now my problem is my DD is leaking??? I think my bolt is going in almost a full 1/4" further into the input gear and it's not venting?? The drive doesn't leak just sitting it only leaks when I run the sled.
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I think less primary spring is probably the right direction.....OR bring a red/white secondary spring along and try that as well....or loosening up on the green. Might take a combination of things to find the sweet spot, but I find watching the temps of the 2 clutches real close is the quickest/easiest way to dial in a setup and get the most out of it.
trying to help
we had one blowing belts clutches were hot it was out of paralle you need to be 60to90 thousand off paralle shim alinment to spec and tight off set even if you have to move motor check the new 09 way to set parallelism
we had one blowing belts clutches were hot it was out of paralle you need to be 60to90 thousand off paralle shim alinment to spec and tight off set even if you have to move motor check the new 09 way to set parallelism
Half way through I was thinking ppl spring too, or more weights specifically at the tip, I will be runnin adjustables with tungsten insterts for more manipulation of heal or tip, and that is a little 8, what are you pulling now, Spring finish/weight in pri? Not enough squeeze. Almost positive. We will see though right
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i call bs on that one, based on the fact that my 07 4 tower eats belts pretty good, although this year for whatever reason hasn't yet, maybe the lack of snow causing less strain on the belt...
i only overshift ONCE on the trail and it snapped the belt into a bunch of tiny pieces of rubber and strings. Took me 20 mintues to pull the entire clutch apart and get the peices out. Nightmare. Thus i fabbed the white spacer to be the perfect length so that it wouldn't let the clutch overshift and pull the belt into the helix. This is a totally seperate issue though. I almost never do top speed pulls. I just happed to be WOT on the trail and hit a patch of ice and ZING - BOOM!
my motor and alignment was set by my dealer to align with the brand new 09 parallel and alignment specs that came out in the latest bulletin. Since then its eatin belts even faster!
Half way through I was thinking ppl spring too, or more weights specifically at the tip, I will be runnin adjustables with tungsten insterts for more manipulation of heal or tip, and that is a little 8, what are you pulling now, Spring finish/weight in pri? Not enough squeeze. Almost positive. We will see though right
agreed that the primary spring might be the culprit, see my next post regarding springs i plan on trying.
my current clutching setup is as follows
Primary - 83g cat light tips, Ti yellow/white
Secondary - RKT kit, 38/36 progressive w/ sno pro green spring one hole looser than centre.
Pulls 7700rpm w/ 046 belt
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OK - more thoughts of mine for you all to read (assuming people are actually reading this!)... Sorry its soooo long:
-the Ti springs look to be an issue. I heard this from a few top sled builders out there (i won't drop names, but you've all heard of them). So to check their comments, i pulled the primary spring out this morning before work and sure enough its much wider in overall diameter than the steel springs are... So this gets me thinking that i may very well be dealing with a coil bind issue... the Ti spring actually got STUCK in the primary cover!
- to further that thought, i'm beginning to believe that i may NOT have an alignment issue. I'm starting to think i've just got a slipping belt (in the primary) issue. My black pen method has worked perfect of years and currently i'm showing PERFECT alignment... hmmm.
-so i'm going to go after a fix in two ways, unfortunately at the same time (unless someone wants to donate a steel ylw/wht to me within the next day!). First, i've confirmed a number of times that torsion springs seems shift out faster on the bottom, get stiffer more expontially than compression springs. Their benefits are in their smoothness of operation - no binding as they shift like compression spring does (thus the popularity of the shift-assist devices). All this to say, that i like the "idea" of a torsion kit and will continue to play with it for now. i've got all the parts on the bench ready to go back to compression if i want to though. So long story short - the 1000 makes the torque to pull a softer spring than the ylw/white off the bottom and i'm only starting the helix out at 38* so a harder shift out from the beginning shouldn't cause any further issues, and i like this feel personally. BUT - i need a spring that squeezes a little harder at climbing speeds of around 52mph where i'm streaking my primary. In addition, i believe my Ti spring being so FAT was causing it to act EVEN stiffer in the primary and causing coil binding, perhaps not even a straight out pressure increase, which could've caused my only half-circle black streak. So, i'm gonna try a slightly less stiff spring in the ylw/grn.
-All this to say - i think Ti springs are causing problems and i think with my specific setup i need a little softer finishing primary spring or more tip weight. the spring is easier, so i'm gonna try it first. Yellow/Green 114-267 vs. Yellow/White 122-285. Kelsey likes the orange/white Orange/White 143-290, but i find higher starting/higher engagement springs always build more primary heat. plus i ride trees often and enjoy the ability to get quick pulls off the bottom-end. I really liked the gold in my m7 w/ twins and its 75/275...
-one last thought - if you are really following my belt issues and my list of mods, you'll note that i did do some alignment mods, though i kept having belt heat. I added a torsion kit as well, which seemed to help just a littl bit, but my belts kept burning, THEN i geared down and things got better, but didn't get fixed all the way. Hmmm - the gear down changes my alignment again because its puts clutches FURTHER into the shift at the same (or close) given track speed. Well, now i'm back to trust myself again - my alignments good, i've just got a balancing issue between the clutches... more primary squeeze at climbing speeds and i hope i've got it fixed!
Comments please
-the Ti springs look to be an issue. I heard this from a few top sled builders out there (i won't drop names, but you've all heard of them
). So to check their comments, i pulled the primary spring out this morning before work and sure enough its much wider in overall diameter than the steel springs are... So this gets me thinking that i may very well be dealing with a coil bind issue... the Ti spring actually got STUCK in the primary cover! - to further that thought, i'm beginning to believe that i may NOT have an alignment issue. I'm starting to think i've just got a slipping belt (in the primary) issue. My black pen method has worked perfect of years and currently i'm showing PERFECT alignment... hmmm.
-so i'm going to go after a fix in two ways, unfortunately at the same time (unless someone wants to donate a steel ylw/wht to me within the next day!). First, i've confirmed a number of times that torsion springs seems shift out faster on the bottom, get stiffer more expontially than compression springs. Their benefits are in their smoothness of operation - no binding as they shift like compression spring does (thus the popularity of the shift-assist devices). All this to say, that i like the "idea" of a torsion kit and will continue to play with it for now. i've got all the parts on the bench ready to go back to compression if i want to though. So long story short - the 1000 makes the torque to pull a softer spring than the ylw/white off the bottom and i'm only starting the helix out at 38* so a harder shift out from the beginning shouldn't cause any further issues, and i like this feel personally. BUT - i need a spring that squeezes a little harder at climbing speeds of around 52mph where i'm streaking my primary. In addition, i believe my Ti spring being so FAT was causing it to act EVEN stiffer in the primary and causing coil binding, perhaps not even a straight out pressure increase, which could've caused my only half-circle black streak. So, i'm gonna try a slightly less stiff spring in the ylw/grn.
-All this to say - i think Ti springs are causing problems and i think with my specific setup i need a little softer finishing primary spring or more tip weight. the spring is easier, so i'm gonna try it first. Yellow/Green 114-267 vs. Yellow/White 122-285. Kelsey likes the orange/white Orange/White 143-290, but i find higher starting/higher engagement springs always build more primary heat. plus i ride trees often and enjoy the ability to get quick pulls off the bottom-end. I really liked the gold in my m7 w/ twins and its 75/275...
-one last thought - if you are really following my belt issues and my list of mods, you'll note that i did do some alignment mods, though i kept having belt heat. I added a torsion kit as well, which seemed to help just a littl bit, but my belts kept burning, THEN i geared down and things got better, but didn't get fixed all the way. Hmmm - the gear down changes my alignment again because its puts clutches FURTHER into the shift at the same (or close) given track speed. Well, now i'm back to trust myself again - my alignments good, i've just got a balancing issue between the clutches... more primary squeeze at climbing speeds and i hope i've got it fixed!
Comments please
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