there is only one way to settle this. load the sleds and head for the backcountry
Av gas or Race gas
- Thread starter alrevedup
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L
Linc
Active member
there is only one way to settle this. load the sleds and head for the backcountry
Great, let's DOO it.....I'll bring the boosted snow plane and I think Handsome has a line on a non-boosted one. We're gonna kick all your asses.
S
Sako7STW
Well-known member
JSCC, Its like NytroTURBOD actually knows you drive a Dodge and build houses for a living??
Now for my $.02 worth on this holy friggin shizznit of soap opera thread.I tested all three in my ring-ding sled as it runs a very high compression simular to the levels of boosted sleds. The mixed 50/50 worked ok but was very inconsistant and I fought jetting constantly. The race gas did an excellent job as I expected, it also put a 6" drain pipe on my wallet. The AV Gas does great. jetting stays very consistant BUT it is very hard to get it "Just Right". I do think I was getting a bit more power with the race gas as my water temps were consitantly 30deg cooler with it vs the AV and 45 deg cooler than the 50/50 mix. It wasnt enough though to make me change back to race gas due to the cost.
As for the "Pinheads" on here that are chemical experts saying its to dry dont have a freakin clue. I work at a gas processing facility and I can tell you there is virtually no difference besides the lead content that is added between AV and Race when it comes to its lubrication properties. The thing you need to be most concerned about is adequet octanes for your application. Learn how to read you piston wash and if you dont have detonation then your just fine period. No need for further octane if there no detonation and your not having heat problems. The Vapor lock stuff is total horse shat! If you look at the specific gravity of AV gas you will see its its on the mark with the rest of the fuels out. If it were to have a real low sp. grav. it would also have a higher vapor pressure and a lower flash point (boiling point), all of which it doesnt. AV gas was desighned to actually combat vapor lock as thats the reason you dont see planes running on premium, it was tried by the airinautical industry and the number one problem was vapor locking so they went back to good ol 100LL.
If you want dry, propane is for you, its so dry your burning just the fumes. Very low Sp. Grav. very low flash point, ect. But yet Brad Story runs it just fine as well as thousands of others in gasoline based engines. It doesnt even have Oils or Lead in it! Just that stinky azz Mercaptin. You can take it to even the next level of "dry" look at Natural Gas. HMMMM ever heard of a Natural gas powerd vehicle?? Yep, my company has hundreds of them and yet they dont vapor lock and we dont replace rings every 2 hundred miles either. Get what I am saying yet? You AV gas bashers have took the marketing hype and swallowed the bait. They are full of it, AV gas is perfectly fine to run in anything that requires that octane level, if you dont need the octane your just pissin money (and HP) down the drain.
Now for my $.02 worth on this holy friggin shizznit of soap opera thread.I tested all three in my ring-ding sled as it runs a very high compression simular to the levels of boosted sleds. The mixed 50/50 worked ok but was very inconsistant and I fought jetting constantly. The race gas did an excellent job as I expected, it also put a 6" drain pipe on my wallet. The AV Gas does great. jetting stays very consistant BUT it is very hard to get it "Just Right". I do think I was getting a bit more power with the race gas as my water temps were consitantly 30deg cooler with it vs the AV and 45 deg cooler than the 50/50 mix. It wasnt enough though to make me change back to race gas due to the cost.
As for the "Pinheads" on here that are chemical experts saying its to dry dont have a freakin clue. I work at a gas processing facility and I can tell you there is virtually no difference besides the lead content that is added between AV and Race when it comes to its lubrication properties. The thing you need to be most concerned about is adequet octanes for your application. Learn how to read you piston wash and if you dont have detonation then your just fine period. No need for further octane if there no detonation and your not having heat problems. The Vapor lock stuff is total horse shat! If you look at the specific gravity of AV gas you will see its its on the mark with the rest of the fuels out. If it were to have a real low sp. grav. it would also have a higher vapor pressure and a lower flash point (boiling point), all of which it doesnt. AV gas was desighned to actually combat vapor lock as thats the reason you dont see planes running on premium, it was tried by the airinautical industry and the number one problem was vapor locking so they went back to good ol 100LL.
If you want dry, propane is for you, its so dry your burning just the fumes. Very low Sp. Grav. very low flash point, ect. But yet Brad Story runs it just fine as well as thousands of others in gasoline based engines. It doesnt even have Oils or Lead in it! Just that stinky azz Mercaptin. You can take it to even the next level of "dry" look at Natural Gas. HMMMM ever heard of a Natural gas powerd vehicle?? Yep, my company has hundreds of them and yet they dont vapor lock and we dont replace rings every 2 hundred miles either. Get what I am saying yet? You AV gas bashers have took the marketing hype and swallowed the bait. They are full of it, AV gas is perfectly fine to run in anything that requires that octane level, if you dont need the octane your just pissin money (and HP) down the drain.
I thought it was going to be just another stupid AV gas thread but it turned good at the end.
My 2 cents, I run it in my two stroke triple, 14.5:1 with .056 squish with no problems, ever. Anything I have left at the end of the year goes into the weed wacker, lawn tractor, generator, quad etc and works great. If only the airport would cash my welfare cheque I could quit getting screwed by that "payday loan" place.
My 2 cents, I run it in my two stroke triple, 14.5:1 with .056 squish with no problems, ever. Anything I have left at the end of the year goes into the weed wacker, lawn tractor, generator, quad etc and works great. If only the airport would cash my welfare cheque I could quit getting screwed by that "payday loan" place.
Man, I love these Av Gas threads. Since I make my living blending the stuff (along with diesel, unleaded fuels, and jet fuel) I guess I'll throw some facts into this thread.
Fact; as RYDR has heard; 100 LL Aviation Fuel does burn at a slower rate. The reason for this is due to the amount of Toluene that is added. For the average recreational user; the slight loss in engine performance caused by the slower burn rate is minimal.
Fact; the engine used for octane cert. of 100 LL is a supercharged internal combustion engine.
Fact; For someone who doesn't need more than 100 octane fuel; 100 LL is the most consistant fuel available due to the many federal guidelines it must meet for certification that road fuels don't have. We blend a fresh batch of 100 LL to a storage tank and then sampe it for cert. Once Certified; it is then transfered to the "rack tank" that the truck rack pumps from.
Fact; All of the ingredients that Pinned got from Wikpedia are found in 85.5-92 Octane Uneaded gasolines except for the TEL. The difference is; the blend stocks for 100 LL are actually; Light Akylate (term we use for a more refined/purer form), High Severity Reformate, Toluene and TEL (Tetra Ethyl Lead). All unleaded fuels have; Akylate, Reformate, Toluene, Naptha, FCC Gasoline (high sulpher content/low octane garbage) and Butane.
I have used 50/50 race and pump mixed and 100 LL in my super charged RX-1 on different ocasions. The ony reason I don't use 100 ll full time is because; I don't like hauling 55 gal drums to the mtns when I go on 3-5 day trips to Cooke City.
Jim
Since I make my living blending the stuff (along with diesel, unleaded fuels, and jet fuel) I guess I'll throw some facts into this thread.Fact; as RYDR has heard; 100 LL Aviation Fuel does burn at a slower rate. The reason for this is due to the amount of Toluene that is added. For the average recreational user; the slight loss in engine performance caused by the slower burn rate is minimal.
Fact; the engine used for octane cert. of 100 LL is a supercharged internal combustion engine.
Fact; For someone who doesn't need more than 100 octane fuel; 100 LL is the most consistant fuel available due to the many federal guidelines it must meet for certification that road fuels don't have. We blend a fresh batch of 100 LL to a storage tank and then sampe it for cert. Once Certified; it is then transfered to the "rack tank" that the truck rack pumps from.
Fact; All of the ingredients that Pinned got from Wikpedia are found in 85.5-92 Octane Uneaded gasolines except for the TEL. The difference is; the blend stocks for 100 LL are actually; Light Akylate (term we use for a more refined/purer form), High Severity Reformate, Toluene and TEL (Tetra Ethyl Lead). All unleaded fuels have; Akylate, Reformate, Toluene, Naptha, FCC Gasoline (high sulpher content/low octane garbage) and Butane.
I have used 50/50 race and pump mixed and 100 LL in my super charged RX-1 on different ocasions. The ony reason I don't use 100 ll full time is because; I don't like hauling 55 gal drums to the mtns when I go on 3-5 day trips to Cooke City.
Jim
THANK YOU!!! Finally. And, the toluene is a slower burning fuel, as Jim said. However, with timing, which most rank engines have plenty of, you can counter the effects of the slower burn. On the dyno, we have added straight Toluene to fuel to see how it works, as a detonation deterent. Works amazingly well. To the point that power is increased over some good fuels, due to the reduction in detonation. Toluene used to be ran in turbocharged race cars almost straight. It will handle huge cylinder pressures, and still not detonate. AV GAS IS EXCELLENT FUEL.... get it through your heads!!! Shiza!!!
I dont think you want to run straight toluene as it is a pretty bad carcinogen. I dont think it vaporizes very well and has a low laminar flame speed.
BlgsRX-1mtn is correct.
Avgas is a good fuel is you dont need more than 100 oct.
But I still havent figured out why more people dont run E85 (political BS aside). 100 octane, 2something a gallon, way better deal if you can get it.
BlgsRX-1mtn is correct.
Avgas is a good fuel is you dont need more than 100 oct.
But I still havent figured out why more people dont run E85 (political BS aside). 100 octane, 2something a gallon, way better deal if you can get it.
L
Linc
Active member
I wasn't thinking of it straight but as an additive,,,if it's even nesessary.
Its funny you say that. Because I was impressed with the arguments about avgas. If you saw my sled you would know that my 40 year old ego is fine with looking like any other nytro out there. I have a turbo and run race gas because I like techy stuff. If I could put a turbo on my riding lawn mower I would.
As for why I buy race gas. My friend and dealer suggested it, I like it including the smell, I buy it from another friend and I can get it 6 days a week.
You are right though I am pretty shallow I do wear Klim gear.
Linc, I am a painter. I buy it from Sherwin Williams as a solvent. Same name, smells like it will run an engine and is definitely a carcenagenic (sp?).
toluene is already in gasoline, thats how they get the octane of unleaded up. You can run it straight or any ratio in between if you want, but there are better fuels. Toulene is basically benzene which is pretty nasty stuff.
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hey linc a few years ago you could buy Toulene any where but all the crackheads runnied that . Its a major ingredent in meth so good luck finding it in a small town .
question
is the lead in av gas dangerous for my health when I get it on my hands or breath in some exhaust fumes?
is the lead in av gas dangerous for my health when I get it on my hands or breath in some exhaust fumes?
