pretty sure it was an oops by the guy... not worried.
850 Patriot Owners- Poll Failure or Not
- Thread starter GoBigParts
- Start date
pretty sure it was an oops by the guy... not worried.
What my dealer told me is that none of the pre-production 850's that they ran for a couple years had the bearing issue. Multiple vendors assembling multiple bottom ends and one vendor didn't do it right was what he was suggesting. That doesn't jive with the sky is falling crowd who claim a design flaw. Of course if it is a design flaw they will all go down, right? LOL
What my dealer told me is that none of the pre-production 850's that they ran for a couple years had the bearing issue. Multiple vendors assembling multiple bottom ends and one vendor didn't do it right was what he was suggesting. That doesn't jive with the sky is falling crowd who claim a design flaw. Of course if it is a design flaw they will all go down, right? LOL
Doesn’t Polaris assemble their own engines in Osceola? Pre-production, one off, hand built to exacting tolerances is far different than any production run. its The production run that seems to be having issues.
Yes you are correct............ but do you know why you are correct ?
Many of the test motors did NOT use that bearing.
Many of the test sleds had twin PTO bearings and one of them contained an inner race and was an interference fit bearing.
But at the last moment the bearing was change by Engineer Larry H how retired shortly there after.........( thats the word on the street )
and my guess is the ( word on the street is correct )
Dan
So you’re saying the “word on the street” is your guess, and you don’t know any of this for a fact? Just more theory?
Was there anything different with the center bearings on those engines as well?
I have two 850's 400 miles, and 300 miles on them no probs, I have 3 other 850's in my club they have no issue's. I talked to my dealer he sold 8 850's none of those customers have contacted the dealer with any problems.
I find it funny that most of the guys that have seen all these falures don't own one. If one of mine goes down I'll be posting it on here. Until I personally see one it's mostly over blown internet hype to me.
I'll be ordering another 850 for my son next year. He's 13 and rides way better with the changes they made in 19. Can't hardly keep him off my wife's or mine.
I find it funny that most of the guys that have seen all these falures don't own one. If one of mine goes down I'll be posting it on here. Until I personally see one it's mostly over blown internet hype to me.
I'll be ordering another 850 for my son next year. He's 13 and rides way better with the changes they made in 19. Can't hardly keep him off my wife's or mine.
Same experience here with our two 850's, our friends and the dealers we know. Hopefully the failures were an assembly run done wrong. My 850 has been pushed hard in steep terrain and deep snow the last couple rides and it is performing awesome. Fingers have been crossed as no tow out possible from some of the places we ride.
Just askin for clarity man. Sorry my question upset you enough to give me a bad rep. The way you wrote your post didn’t seem clear cuz you ended your statement in “and my guess is the (the word on the street is correct)”... just want facts, not word on the street. I understand that’s probably not realistically going to happen, but it would be nice to substantiate claims. I assume you know plenty of people on the inside and probably have some fairly reliable sources. But you know what they say about assuming...
So tell us about this twin pto bearing crank? That is from one of the preproduction test sleds? Or one of the test motors off their shelf? Or an updated production sled??
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What my dealer told me is that none of the pre-production 850's that they ran for a couple years had the bearing issue. Multiple vendors assembling multiple bottom ends and one vendor didn't do it right was what he was suggesting. That doesn't jive with the sky is falling crowd who claim a design flaw. Of course if it is a design flaw they will all go down, right? LOL
I doubt a design flaw would be so bad it would be a 100% failure rate.
The failure rate probably isn’t to bad as long as your sled isn’t one that fails but if it does fail the failure rate is probably one to many.
Hey Dude !! I don't give you a bad ( rep ) something was dicked up last night with snowest ..... ( just about everyone had a 509 ) logo under their Avator .... And I was trying to ( QUOTE ) and nothing would work so was clicking on everything ...
There wasn't even a thumbs up or down to click.... I have only gave one or two thumbs down and it was someone was slamming me on very post.
Is there a way for me to change it ? Or is it a done deal ?
Dan
Someone shipped a motor in for all the updates...... We tore it apart to machine the case and groove the bearing ..... It has twin PTO bearings.
Called the customer and asked him when he got the sled ...... He said he bought the motor on eBay.
So.... Not sure I believe that, I have several Auto searches set up on eBay for 850 stuff I would have seen it.
Dan
Wow that’s bizarre. I’ll be curious to hear if you run across more motors like this. Got a serial number for the motor? We could try and figure out if it came before or after what’s already out there...
850 already down thread
I said in the beginning of the 850 down thread there would be big trouble if all the cylinders were like the ones off our first shop 850.
So far they have all been pretty bad...... There are some differences in the cylinders were are seeing but they are all pretty horrible.
I will say this.... From what I have seem none of the cylinders I have seen have a shot at making it to 2000 miles without a huge performance loss form Pistons with the skirts worn off and the rings wasted.
Polaris sent out a written bulletin shortly after I post cylinder finish troubles ( they were putting out a fire ) it said they had a new ring and it needed a rougher cylinder finish....... Ahhhhhhhhhh that would be incorrect information.
The early info I put out about the cylinder was not a guess.
I have been closer to more cylinders from more manufactures then everyone at Polaris added together.....nt hey don't know SH!t about cylinder finish.
Unless by some chance I am only seeing the worst cylinders! My prediction stands firm.....if there is plenty of snow and everyone gets to ride a lot there will be Almost zero past 1500 miles that still hold RPM
and my next prediction is if there is a cylinder recall the recall cylinders will not be done correctly either.
It takes me more time to polish finish one cylinder then it does to production hone 10 cylinders..... I can't see an OEM doing it right.
Few people to this day believe ( Silicon Carbide ) honing is a big deal.
If you could all sit down in a room with Larry Rugland ( life long race engine builder ) for Polaris and ask him about plated cylinder finish.
He would say this......" I don't much about plated cylinders " - but I do know what does and does not work...... Followed by this......the only cylinders I will use to build a fast race motor is used high mileage take off cylinders.
Unfortunately Larry never saw a cylinder that I honed after very late 2015...... It was early 2016 when I really started getting my head around how to get a plated cylinder smooth enough for ultimate ring seal.... And ring life.
The deal with silicon carbide plated cylinders that gets the ( people that think they are in the know ) in trouble about honing these type cylinders is the fact that none of them have very personally honed a carbide cylinder.
And after honing to size...... THEY HAVE TO BE POLISHED HONED
This is not a guess...... It's could hard fact.
You can spend $4000 on performance parts for any modern sled motor...... And none of them will be as effective as a torque plate polished honed cylinder with new Oem Pistons.
And to to think silicon plated honing is one of the most dreaded processes in my shop.... It's horrible to perform this process.
But it has to be done for long term consistent performance.
It's funny to me...... I argue with people from the United States that hardly put on any miles about honing.
And while this is going on....... Groves of Canadians sledders that put on high miles are sending cylinders down here and buying motors from Indy Specialty because they have found its the only way to get a top end to last.
MY BITCH IS THIS......... With all the testing that was said to be done and bragged about in Polaris videos....AND THEN THERE IS THE POLARIS AMBASSADOR's PROGRAM.
WOW !!! Now if this isn't a program of smoke and mirrors and bullsh't I don't know what is.
No offense to any chosen ambassadors.... But this is the biggest scam I have seen for a manufacture to get people on board ( almost like having Kool-Aid drinking employees the spew the message ) but no need for work and comp insurance or any normal business expensive that comes with being an employee.
Just give them a new sled..... Or a discounted sled and hand them a list of events they must go to and notebook of catchy slang throw around and your all set to go.
I got say it's almost enough to make you want to puke...... The BEAN counters just keep on finding a way to screw the dealers at yet another level.
What would be wrong with giving dealers a few free sleds ? ( they spew the Polaris message daily ) and get nothing but a demo they have to pay just under dealer cost for. What a joke !
Maybe I have this Polaris Ambassador thing all misunderstood ...... But this is sure what it seems from the surface.
I wonder what kind of rules there are for an Ambassador ( to admit problems found.... Or number of engine failures ) they have had ?
The failures should be posted in their Signature lines.
I bet that would be popular.
My 2 cents...... Sorry for rambling.
Dan
I said in the beginning of the 850 down thread there would be big trouble if all the cylinders were like the ones off our first shop 850.
So far they have all been pretty bad...... There are some differences in the cylinders were are seeing but they are all pretty horrible.
I will say this.... From what I have seem none of the cylinders I have seen have a shot at making it to 2000 miles without a huge performance loss form Pistons with the skirts worn off and the rings wasted.
Polaris sent out a written bulletin shortly after I post cylinder finish troubles ( they were putting out a fire ) it said they had a new ring and it needed a rougher cylinder finish....... Ahhhhhhhhhh that would be incorrect information.
The early info I put out about the cylinder was not a guess.
I have been closer to more cylinders from more manufactures then everyone at Polaris added together.....nt hey don't know SH!t about cylinder finish.
Unless by some chance I am only seeing the worst cylinders! My prediction stands firm.....if there is plenty of snow and everyone gets to ride a lot there will be Almost zero past 1500 miles that still hold RPM
and my next prediction is if there is a cylinder recall the recall cylinders will not be done correctly either.
It takes me more time to polish finish one cylinder then it does to production hone 10 cylinders..... I can't see an OEM doing it right.
Few people to this day believe ( Silicon Carbide ) honing is a big deal.
If you could all sit down in a room with Larry Rugland ( life long race engine builder ) for Polaris and ask him about plated cylinder finish.
He would say this......" I don't much about plated cylinders " - but I do know what does and does not work...... Followed by this......the only cylinders I will use to build a fast race motor is used high mileage take off cylinders.
Unfortunately Larry never saw a cylinder that I honed after very late 2015...... It was early 2016 when I really started getting my head around how to get a plated cylinder smooth enough for ultimate ring seal.... And ring life.
The deal with silicon carbide plated cylinders that gets the ( people that think they are in the know ) in trouble about honing these type cylinders is the fact that none of them have very personally honed a carbide cylinder.
And after honing to size...... THEY HAVE TO BE POLISHED HONED
This is not a guess...... It's could hard fact.
You can spend $4000 on performance parts for any modern sled motor...... And none of them will be as effective as a torque plate polished honed cylinder with new Oem Pistons.
And to to think silicon plated honing is one of the most dreaded processes in my shop.... It's horrible to perform this process.
But it has to be done for long term consistent performance.
It's funny to me...... I argue with people from the United States that hardly put on any miles about honing.
And while this is going on....... Groves of Canadians sledders that put on high miles are sending cylinders down here and buying motors from Indy Specialty because they have found its the only way to get a top end to last.
MY BITCH IS THIS......... With all the testing that was said to be done and bragged about in Polaris videos....AND THEN THERE IS THE POLARIS AMBASSADOR's PROGRAM.
WOW !!! Now if this isn't a program of smoke and mirrors and bullsh't I don't know what is.
No offense to any chosen ambassadors.... But this is the biggest scam I have seen for a manufacture to get people on board ( almost like having Kool-Aid drinking employees the spew the message ) but no need for work and comp insurance or any normal business expensive that comes with being an employee.
Just give them a new sled..... Or a discounted sled and hand them a list of events they must go to and notebook of catchy slang throw around and your all set to go.
I got say it's almost enough to make you want to puke...... The BEAN counters just keep on finding a way to screw the dealers at yet another level.
What would be wrong with giving dealers a few free sleds ? ( they spew the Polaris message daily ) and get nothing but a demo they have to pay just under dealer cost for. What a joke !
Maybe I have this Polaris Ambassador thing all misunderstood ...... But this is sure what it seems from the surface.
I wonder what kind of rules there are for an Ambassador ( to admit problems found.... Or number of engine failures ) they have had ?
The failures should be posted in their Signature lines.
I bet that would be popular.
My 2 cents...... Sorry for rambling.
Dan
I have a crankcase number..... And bearing part numbers.
I have to ask the customer if it's ok to post any of his info.
I don't need to get in any trouble over some dumb thing like this.
I'll check him him.
Dan
What my dealer told me is that none of the pre-production 850's that they ran for a couple years had the bearing issue. Multiple vendors assembling multiple bottom ends and one vendor didn't do it right was what he was suggesting. That doesn't jive with the sky is falling crowd who claim a design flaw. Of course if it is a design flaw they will all go down, right? LOL
If it was just an assembly fault, why would Polaris now order the use of Loctite on the PTO bearing when the dealers reassemble the engine?
To test a design, then change the design for production, is just about the stupidest move a manufacturer could make. All the testing was suddenly invalidated.
146 SKS 850
14hrs. Runing fine.
Located in Finland
14hrs. Runing fine.
Located in Finland
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