B
Bacon
Well-known member
Some guys have lots of cash. I can easily see that they would say screw it and buy new Doos. When the poo 850’s get fixed they will sell them. Or keep them.
850 gone down already??
- Thread starter ANTHONY11
- Start date
Some guys have lots of cash. I can easily see that they would say screw it and buy new Doos. When the poo 850’s get fixed they will sell them. Or keep them.
All I seen was Canada. Didn't see anything about Quebec.
I'm not overly protective of Polaris. I have an axys 850 and a doo. I'm happy with both. I've owned cats in the past (m-series was the best) and would jump back on one no problem with right incentives. The post just made no sense the way it was written. 7/12 or 9/12 or whatever and all going down in the same group, is obvious reason to at least question to causation, especially when we have no other details and nobody has reported widespread failure at that level. For all we know someone dumped sugar in their gas. Just a lot of information missing.
my bad
I will call tomorrow and find if he knows where they are.
Just got a hold of him.
It was 7 sleds out of 12.
The group was from south of Winnipeg.
The guy he was talking to said a few guys have them for sale locally.
a few other guys put heirs for sale on site i have never heard of call ...... Kijiji
You guys that all got you're panties in a bundle that think one sled out of 4000 goes down......... you should spend some time calling Polaris dealers all over Canada and ask whats really going on.
If you think the masses are sitting on forums around the clock you're frick dreaming.... the numbers on here are tiny compared to 850 owners.
The 850 problems make the 900 fusion motor look like dream machine.
I went thru the 900 fusion/Rmk and the 800 Dragon days... that was childs play compared to the failure rate of the 850... and i mean childs play.
Winter just started in many places in Canada a few weeks ago....The wrath of the 850 is coming well beyond the dragon and the 900
There is another big failure coming that i have not even mentioned yet.... this is another one that will amke many say..... Oh Dan you can't be sure of that you're just guessing and trying to get business.... Ha....Ok then thats what i am doing.
Its all in print........ and we will see.
The upgrade and the warranty to back it will be posted soon.
I will say this......I wouldn't sell you're 850 yet.
The future for this motor 850 platform is going to be pretty amazing.
We are currently building 7 - test motors that will be finshed soon.
4 - A8.5 Warthog High elevation turbos,
3- N/A motors.
We are moving at a blastering pace on this motor.
I know i may beat this motor up but i do like this motor more then just about any Polaris motor i have seen to date.
Truely an awesome motor.
Dan
It was 7 sleds out of 12.
The group was from south of Winnipeg.
The guy he was talking to said a few guys have them for sale locally.
a few other guys put heirs for sale on site i have never heard of call ...... Kijiji
You guys that all got you're panties in a bundle that think one sled out of 4000 goes down......... you should spend some time calling Polaris dealers all over Canada and ask whats really going on.
If you think the masses are sitting on forums around the clock you're frick dreaming.... the numbers on here are tiny compared to 850 owners.
The 850 problems make the 900 fusion motor look like dream machine.
I went thru the 900 fusion/Rmk and the 800 Dragon days... that was childs play compared to the failure rate of the 850... and i mean childs play.
Winter just started in many places in Canada a few weeks ago....The wrath of the 850 is coming well beyond the dragon and the 900
There is another big failure coming that i have not even mentioned yet.... this is another one that will amke many say..... Oh Dan you can't be sure of that you're just guessing and trying to get business.... Ha....Ok then thats what i am doing.
Its all in print........ and we will see.
The upgrade and the warranty to back it will be posted soon.
I will say this......I wouldn't sell you're 850 yet.
The future for this motor 850 platform is going to be pretty amazing.
We are currently building 7 - test motors that will be finshed soon.
4 - A8.5 Warthog High elevation turbos,
3- N/A motors.
We are moving at a blastering pace on this motor.
I know i may beat this motor up but i do like this motor more then just about any Polaris motor i have seen to date.
Truely an awesome motor.
Dan
I did call my dealer about this actually, after reading your terrorizing posts I was wondering if I should ride anymore. His answer? A few are having spark plug issues (mapping) and one out of fourty delivered 850s blew due to improper break in. Keep typing, I’ll keep riding.
I would like enlightened on what is improper break in.
I'll bite. You have my interest. What is the next "big failure"? And is it your upgrade and warranty or are you stating Polaris has something coming down the pipe on this?
Whatever
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So, this is my first post on this forum. And being from Sweden i hope you can live with the possibility of bad grammar and spelling... (hoping that spellcheck can save me)
I find this thread extremely interesting. Mostly for the engine tech. =)
One thing i wondering about is this center bearing sealing. You say that Polaris made a big mistake relocating them to inside the bearing instead of on the outside. Looking at blueprints i can se the differences from the 800 H.O and the 850 an understand whats going on.
But when you look at the A-C 800 C-tec and the BRP 850 Etech both of them also have the sealing on the inside of the bearings. (If i´m reading the blueprints right)
For someone with small engine experience, what is the differences that makes it work in there engines but not in Polaris?
Do they have some kind of overflow channels as the ones you machined or how have they solved it?
Edit: Putting in a heads up on that it´s possible that i´m misunderstanding something. My engine tech english i kind of self learn so it may contain flaws...
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Such a great question !
I did say mistake in my opinion...... ( it's pretty obvious that both ways work )
Here is my beef with the change.
Going back to the 1999 440 small block ( pretty much the start for the small block Polaris ) - 5.040" inch center to center crankshaft ..... ( death of the Lab seal ) - Sealed center bearing still in use in 2019 in the 800 Axys.
the 2005/06 900 Fusion had simlar center seals to the new 850
The beauty of the Polaris small block 1999 440cc XCR thru 2019 5.040" center to center crankshaft is as follows.
With the center seals on the outside of the center bearings...... Two really good things happen.
1 - most people will all agree.... ( the 2 bearing get to run in a spray bath of injector oil ) from the the water/oil pump shaft..... At a design oil level equal to the bottom edge of the outer O.D. Of 2.835" or 72mm where the OEM drain on the MAG side is machined into all PRE 2018 cases I have seen.
2 - And most important to the ( CONSUMER ) not me as an engine shop...... Before I list this one let me just say this.... The likes and dislikes I mention in this thread about the small block and the new 850 are what I believe ( THE CONSUMER ) should like.....
From my point of view ( financially ) at the shop floor the 900 fusion and the 850 is better for our budget.
Ok getting back to #2 - and why it's important to the consumer......( after warranty ) if anything mishap of any kind happens within the confines of either cylinder such as an ring locator falls out, ring breaks, lean burn down, object goes thru the air box, many other strange things can and have happened since 1999 .... ( 20 years ) ...... The small block center bearings are completely isolated from foreign objects getting inside the ball area and hiding.
Which means small shops, and dealers, and the handy consumer ( can split the crankcase after a piston mishap ) - pop off the 2 end bearings......clean the crankshaft with a can of brake cleaner and high pressure air..... Clean out the 2 end bearings and put it back together and feel about 99% sure you got everything out. ( because of the outward seals )
On a 755/900 fusion or an 850 motor the bearing faces are wide open towards the cylinder cavities...... And the only real way to feel confident you got them cleaned out is to split the crankshaft center section ( and not just everyone can do this ) ...... And do it accurately.
From a consumer stand point and dealer stand point...... The small block is so much more dependable in the center section.
And the Small block ( sealed bearings have always been available from Polaris across the counter ) ....... Where as the center seals on the 755/900 fusion motor do not have a part number and have never been available.
The 850 after warranty is a consumer nightmare....... Look it up !!
4 part numbers related to the crank..... And one of those is a complete crankshaft for $1900US dollars.
You can not buy anything across the counter other then the 2 outside bearings and a flywheel key.
No rod part number
No lower rod bearing part number
No center bearing part number
No center seal part number
No center gear part number
No center bearing part number
No inner wheel part number
No rod pin part number
No PTO end part number
No MAG end part number
You can buy ....
Flywheel key
PTO bearing
Mag bearing
Yippy ! Lucky consumers
This unit out of warranty is going to be a money eating monster, and as far as serviceability to the consumer and the dealer ...... What options are there for servicing the bottom end ?
$1900 for a complete crank...... And the BEAN counters at Polaris will have the MARGIN for the dealer down to about 15 to 20% max by then.
The crankshafts are NOT made by Fuji Heavy Industries, or by MAPE ...... They hung both of those great vendors out to dry.... and went down a cheaper road.
Lung Ku builds their 850 crankshafts. ( you think that's located in America ...... ) ahhhhhh ......NO I don't think so.
I don't look at a new motor platform from the same point of view as consumer.
I look at the big picture into the future ..... And I try and see when and where the motor is going to need outside service beyond Polaris.
One may think at first glance with a 4 year warranty that there will be no need to even think about making a money on these motors until 2023......
Nothing could be farther away from that thought in my mind.
I will say this...... No Polaris motor to date has ever been ( LESS ) consumer friendly from a repair after warranty view point then this motor.
For that very reason I personally am on a war path to make all 850 crankshaft parts in house for far less money then buying a new crankshaft.
I inquired a bearing vendor today for a 1000 qty build of new center bearings with the seal located within the bearing... Not positive yet about the room available .... Most likely the gear shoulder will have to be shortened to make room for a wider sealed bearing ( early stages to soon to tell )
I will NOT be confined or trapped by the ( BEAN ) counters at Polaris.....
In 2007 I designed and had built a full billet crankshaft for the 755/900 Fuzion motor.... I believe it might have been the most successful lowest failure crankshaft ever built..... And back then I out-sourced all the machine work.
Now I can build the entire crankshaft in house ...... And not only can.... I have already started on certain componets.
My guess for this motor is as follows ..... There will be more demand for motor upgrade parts sooner then any past Polaris motor built to date.
There is no need to fear monger anyone about this motor...... The best thing that can happen for me is for it to snow like it never has before world wide.
I have been doing this for over 35 years..... It's just not that hard to see what's coming.
Polaris worked hard on this motor to phases out serviceability and screw the consumer.
Pistons....... $309 bucks each = $618 plus tax plus $1900 for a crankshaft, cylinder $1200..... Throw seals and gaskets in for a round number $200
$1900
$1200
$618
$200
______________
$3918.00
Plus tax...... Where is there room for shop labor ?
What if you need a crankcase because a cylinder sleeve extension broke and fell down and went thru the crankcase ?
Another $1100
$5018.00 dollars if you buy all the parts and assemble it in your garage.
The is the first time I have ever considered getting into having my own cylinders and crankcase Casted.
And yes I just mentioned the next failure on the horizon...... This motor will break cylinder sleeve extensions...... And in my opinion it won't be all that long until we see the first ones fail and blow a hole thru the crankcase.
Time will tell.
Dan
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Lung KU
隆固工業股份有限公司
隆固工業股份有限公司
So tell me, when was the last time Cat sold motors that were seizing up during break in? The primary clutches were an every 2000 mile rebuild/replace for years until they switched to Team but, I went through two clutches on my Axys in less than 1200 miles. No other manufacturer rivals the junk motors Polaris has sold to the public over the last 15 years, not even close. Polaris needs to do something for customers because they keep putting garbage on the market and letting you test it. They easily won the least likely to be a reliable sled prize with the 900, the 800 Dragon and now the 850 patriot.
Happy Riding!
Apparently you haven't visited the ascender forum lately.
Regardless, dan makes some good points about parts availability and post warranty that I hadn't previously considered. Thanks
That would be a lot Canadian dollars. I personally am not impressed with the 850s performance. The 800 is more zippy and does better in the tight short blast in the trees. 850 is better in the open though. Mapping is horrible on the one I have been riding. Are you running fuel controllers on your shop sleds? I know you doing fixes so they are more reliable, but is there anything for them running like **** ( bottom end loading up specifically)
