850 gone down already??

[slyrydr]

great thread, for better or worse, more people reading and posting....isn't that what a forum is about ?

 

[Devilmanak]

One buddy has 500+ on his 850 no probs.
Another buddy has I am guessing 200 and one no-start/flood.
Another had an electrical issue that caused a dead sled, 100 miles or so.
Hopefully this is like when the Axys came out and there were a handful of ring issues right off the bat, then it was probably one of Poo's best 800 engines to date!

 

[Devilmanak]

great thread, for better or worse, more people reading and posting....isn't that what a forum is about ?

Forums are for fun! Like telling everyone that dude is married but has a boyfriend on the side!

 

[Mafesto]

I think that if the thread is moderated for content, then it should also be moderated for childish name-calling and insults.

Well that's a dumb idea. Don't be such a poopy head!
:

 

[CATDIESELPOWER]

Please leave this thread alone. I can’t wait to log on to Snowest and catch up.
. People have paid to join the forum just to read this thread. I would think that would make Harris Publishing want to keep this thread unmolested.

 

[TheBreeze]

That is correct I heard the same thing on the crank rebuild vs crate motor. I would be disappointed in polaris if I was in his shoes. At that point you just have to hope the dealer tech builds a better motor that the factory.... which could be the case at times IMO

 

[indydan]

Dan, thank you for all the input. Do you have an idea of how many failures there are to date?? As far as I can tell it would seem to be (internet reported) a hundred or less??
Wife and I are both over 200 miles and loving these sleds. Wife is improving quickly on her 850. Photo from yesterday, couldn't believe what she was trying and pulling off as she is not an aggressive rider.

Great photo ! I do not know the number of failures.

But I remember the 900 and the dragon days and this seems worse sooner ( but that’s just a feel and I do not have stats.

 

[indydan]

A lot of the guys that are badgering the dealers to sell them a sled at just over cost because if not they'll drive 500 miles to another dealer that will are also driving those $80k trucks and new trailers! None of the sled dealers in my area (any brand) are driving brand new trucks and trailers.

I think some of the dealer discussion and margins are valid because it helps understand how/why Polaris will handle things if there truly is a 900 or 800 Dragon fiasco coming down the pipe. I ride Cats, but I wish no one ill will with their new sleds.

I feel the same way ( the dealer part of this is vital )

The dealer and aftermarket shops like mine are the people that will get Polaris thru this in the end.

I have already showed Polaris how to fix it.... that was easy for my shop.

Not easy for Polaris when the bottom end has to come apart.

They are not set up for a large bottom end update..... the will have to roll the dice and let the chips fall where they may.

Dan

 

[indydan]

You are the Wall Mart of the polaris dealer in your area. You have the insight and forward looking mind to keep things going. New markets, internet sales, web advertising. If you were to open 12 more Polaris dealers you would be competing against yourself in online sells. Logistics is the biggest issue! No one likes to drive 2 hours to the dealer. Your success has come at the expense of your competition and the logistics for the consumer become farther. It is a catch 22 for the consumer as they shop online to get the best price and on a lot of parts logistics is not a issue. Free shipping is everywhere, even larger items as tracks are shipped free from a lot of places, but then we as consumers watch the one dealer we liked to buy our sleds from around the corner go out of business as he did not adapt as you did. I am not smart enough to know the answer but i am aware enough to see what is happening. This in no way is a bash to you, you just have evolved faster then your neighbor and adapted. I for one do not shop at Wall Mart and i try to support the little guy even if it cost a few more bucks. I think a lot of small business owners feel this same way but it is definitely the majority that follow the all mighty buck first and see the consequences later. I feel from Polaris mind set or any other manufacture they need to look at logistics. When the big keep getting bigger they swallow up the rest and we have one dealer within every 200 miles. What gives here? Maybe the future will be more Tesla like and you buy your sled online and the UPS guy drops it off at your door? Warranty claims UPS picks it up? Wait maybe i need to invest more in logistics companies and forget the lithium market i lost so much on in 2018? We the consumer are partly to blame for where we are and it is no fault of yours to take advantage of it. The question is, is this really where we want to be? I don't think we have a choice.

Yes to just about everything in this post.

You are the Walmart in your area......

And yes it’s possible the consumer along with the manufacture are the ones controlling the dealer...... and it seems to be the way it works.

The dealer network is in deep trouble in my opinion..... and that is really bummer.

Dan

 

[Big10inch]

they will have to roll the dice and let the chips fall where they may.

Dan

How does this keep happening to Polaris? Why do they insist on sending out motors that are likely to fail? Do they expect that customers deserve this kind of treatment after dropping $14-15k on a new machine?

I still marvel at how many insist on coming back for this punishment. I have ridden the Doo 850 and the Alpha Cat, I don't see where Poo has anything on the others anymore. I bought a first year Axys and it failed me, no chance I was giving them more R&D money to test the 850 for them. You guys that bought these, well, can't say I feel sorry for you at all. You could see this train wreck coming for miles.

 

[indydan]

Dan...? I think you missed a post when you were responding to everyone about dealer profit margins...

I didn’t miss this one....... I didn’t miss it I didn’t have a good answer.

I still don’t for the most part.


I think with today’s technology it was time for a really for a truly dependable sled that offered a lot of consumer confidence..

My shop had a lot better things to do to this winter then to stop dead in it’s tracks and tear into a 4 year warranty motor that really should not be a valid service candidate for many years.

I knew this would turn into exactly what it has.....and there is nothing any of us can do about it.

Non of this is mine or anyone else’s fault...... the reason that every 850 owner is concerned about this thread is because there has already been enough that have gone down within this thread to erode confidence.

And not even 5 percent of the ones that have failed are on this thread.

The 900 failures were far less...... and I mean far less.

The difference is the 900 sled itself wasn’t that great.... it was a budge hurried copy of a ski doo REV...... because Polaris knew they were behind.

And even after a 900 was fixed it was still a little ratty as a snowmobile.

Where as the 850....... with a few what seems to me as fairly minor updates is a AWESOME MOTOR AND CHASSIS

Dan

 

[indydan]

How does this keep happening to Polaris? Why do they insist on sending out motors that are likely to fail? Do they expect that customers deserve this kind of treatment after dropping $14-15k on a new machine?

I still marvel at how many insist on coming back for this punishment. I have ridden the Doo 850 and the Alpha Cat, I don't see where Poo has anything on the others anymore. I bought a first year Axys and it failed me, no chance I was giving them more R&D money to test the 850 for them. You guys that bought these, well, can't say I feel sorry for you at all. You could see this train wreck coming for miles.

I feel the rag...... I will forever be a Polaris guy.

The ALPHA is one badazz machine ! Other then the rail is a bit under engineered.

The 850 doo motor is an awesome motor...... I have not drove the chassis

Dan

 

[indydan]

Here is what I think based on information (not from this thread)

1)The bearing is secure and will be fine IF it was assembled with the spacer properly. If you have over 100 miles on your engine, the bearing is not going to walk and seize

2) The honing process is fine and will not be causing any piston failures. you can NOT feel any hone marks with your nail nor is the plating sub-par.

3) The oil line issue, may be a valid one and one for concern. Concern in and that it will make a serious oil mess in your sled. It should not cause engine failure because the mess will be spotted before you can have any failure.

Ride and enjoy your sled, it is the most powerful twin Polaris has ever produced. It runs very well.

IF it fails, you have warranty and if it don't then you have this crazy thread reference.

IMO, this engine is going to be fine (especially in 2020) and it is screaming for a big bore to make it really shine!

This is the worst and most inaccurate post since the start of the thread.... considering Kelsey of RK-tech has sled shop.

This post is funny...... your last line really tank any chance of the post in general having any validity.

Quote - “ and it’s screaming for a big bore “

This is a really laugher..... this motor started out just shy of a 900.

And it didn’t work worth a chit...... Polaris kept backing it off until it fell into a sweet spot.

And don’t think for one minute they wouldn’t have loved for it to be a 900.... he’ll it’s not even an 850.

I feel sorry for anyone who tries to make this thing a 900..... it will go from 840 great to 900 garbage in a moment.

And the OEM stock pistons are awesome other then the coating is a little subpar.

Everyone stand clear for the rage of ADDIE .... Better known as RK-tech Kelsey.

I will make the following statement crystal clear right now. ( the Polaris 850 has a great piston in it ) and know aftermarket piston made will surpass it in longevity and dependability.

Dan

 

[tdblakes]

Train wreck? Seems pretty far from a train wreck. No one has given any credible stats to an actual failure rate. Dan himself says he has no real stats. All this information is based on a relatively small number of failures that are documented on this forum, compared to the overall number of 850s out there. Until there is an actual credible failure rate, this is no more than social media hysteria. I’ve seen the effect first hand that false information about something has on a large company when something goes “viral”, true or not. This seems no different to me.

Dan is a gifted machinist and engine builder, no doubt, but he is also a business man. If you step back and look at the thread, he literally says he had to wait for a thread to get a big enough audience for him to start releasing his thoughts on the motor. He latched onto a failure, pointed out some things he believes are problematic, quickly create a solution for them, sets pricing for the work, and begins selling product. It’s simple, it works, and no better platform than social media to get the hype out.

Bottom line is I’m a skeptic when it comes to information on social media that went viral and suddenly becomes “fact”. We won’t truely know a realistic lifespan of the 850 for a long time and until people get a lot of hours and miles on them. Just being realistic. If my 850 goes down, it will get rebuilt and ran again. If you expected a 0.00% failure rate, then you were dreaming. There are undoubtedly troubles when moving to mass production but from the things I’ve seen or heard of so far, it seems to be a production issue, not a design flaw. My .02 flame away

 

[indydan]

Train wreck? Seems pretty far from a train wreck. No one has given any credible stats to an actual failure rate. Dan himself says he has no real stats. All this information is based on a relatively small number of failures that are documented on this forum, compared to the overall number of 850s out there. Until there is an actual credible failure rate, this is no more than social media hysteria. I’ve seen the effect first hand that false information about something has on a large company when something goes “viral”, true or not. This seems no different to me.

Dan is a gifted machinist and engine builder, no doubt, but he is also a business man. If you step back and look at the thread, he literally says he had to wait for a thread to get a big enough audience for him to start releasing his thoughts on the motor. He latched onto a failure, pointed out some things he believes are problematic, quickly create a solution for them, sets pricing for the work, and begins selling product. It’s simple, it works, and no better platform than social media to get the hype out.

Bottom line is I’m a skeptic when it comes to information on social media that went viral and suddenly becomes “fact”. We won’t truely know a realistic lifespan of the 850 for a long time and until people get a lot of hours and miles on them. Just being realistic. If my 850 goes down, it will get rebuilt and ran again. If you expected a 0.00% failure rate, then you were dreaming. There are undoubtedly troubles when moving to mass production but from the things I’ve seen or heard of so far, it seems to be a production issue, not a design flaw. My .02 flame away

Great post ! I would say you are spot on.

And It’s a 4 year warranty unit..... and Polaris is big enough to hold it together.

I said it before and I will say it again..... I love this motor.

My absolute favorite Polaris motor to date.

Dan

 

[snowmobiler]

all engines are good untill your on the wrong end of a tow rope.

 

[ADDIE]

This is the worst and most inaccurate post since the start of the thread.... considering Kelsey of RK-tech has sled shop.

This post is funny...... your last line really tank any chance of the post in general having any validity.

Quote - “ and it’s screaming for a big bore “

This is a really laugher..... this motor started out just shy of a 900.

And it didn’t work worth a chit...... Polaris kept backing it off until it fell into a sweet spot.

And don’t think for one minute they wouldn’t have loved for it to be a 900.... he’ll it’s not even an 850.

I feel sorry for anyone who tries to make this thing a 900..... it will go from 840 great to 900 garbage in a moment.

And the OEM stock pistons are awesome other then the coating is a little subpar.

Everyone stand clear for the rage of ADDIE .... Better known as RK-tech Kelsey.

I will make the following statement crystal clear right now. ( the Polaris 850 has a great piston in it ) and know aftermarket piston made will surpass it in longevity and dependability.

Dan

Well, Dan, time will see who is correct,<

What we do know , now, as being is correct is that you are not a man of your word.
You swore ,on your mother's grave, that we would agree to discuss the subjects,in a civil manner, without any personal attacks.

We can see that this is hardly the case..

Nice work calling others on here "Morons".

You offer all this info as "Fact" and it is just your opinion.

In the end, you have your opinion (and that is all it is) and I have mine. Others have theirs.. There has been NO PROOF to any design flaws, just opinions on how one might change things.

The Bearing failures are isolated incidents due to an assembly line error. Chances are they will fail very early or they should be good.

We will all see how the Big Bore fairs against the stocker. Until then, again.. your opinion..

I do think the silicone in the oilers might be a flaw across the board. Time will tell on this one as well.

Kind of ironic.. You praise Polaris on their engineering on getting the awesome piston and bore to stroke ratio, yet the same engineers are idiots on crank design and cylinder finish.

 

[skippy]

Well, Dan, time will see who is correct,<

What we do know , now, as being is correct is that you are not a man of your word.
You swore ,on your mother's grave, that we would agree to discuss the subjects,in a civil manner, without any personal attacks.

We can see that this is hardly the case..

Nice work calling others on here "Morons".

You offer all this info as "Fact" and it is just your opinion.

In the end, you have your opinion (and that is all it is) and I have mine. Others have theirs.. There has been NO PROOF to any design flaws, just opinions on how one might change things.

The Bearing failures are isolated incidents due to an assembly line error. Chances are they will fail very early or they should be good.

We will all see how the Big Bore fairs against the stocker. Until then, again.. your opinion..

I do think the silicone in the oilers might be a flaw across the board. Time will tell on this one as well.

Kind of ironic.. You praise Polaris on their engineering on getting the awesome piston and bore to stroke ratio, yet the same engineers are idiots on crank design and cylinder finish.

You probably shouldn't talk about "man of your word" when you're hiding behind a different user name!

 

[indydan]

Well, Dan, time will see who is correct,<

What we do know , now, as being is correct is that you are not a man of your word.
You swore ,on your mother's grave, that you would not EVER make any personal attacks on public forums against me and that we would "DISCUSS" the subject at hand in a civil manner.

We can see that this is hardly the case..

Nice work calling others on here "Morons".

You offer all this info as "Fact" and it is just your opinion.

In the end, you have your opinion (and that is all it is) and I have mine. Others have theirs.. There has been NO PROOF to any design flaws, just opinions on how one might change things.

The Bearing failures are isolated incidents due to an assembly line error. Chances are they will fail very early or they should be good.

We will all see how the Big Bore fairs against the stocker. Until then, again.. your opinion..

I do think the silicone in the oilers might be a flaw across the board. Time will tell on this one as well.

Kind of ironic.. You praise Polaris on their engineering on getting the awesome piston and bore to stroke ratio, yet the same engineers are idiots on crank design and cylinder finish.

Don't confuse personal with business.

Don't even go where you want to go ( poor me, Dan hurt my feeling ) I was trying to turn this into a Polaris has a poopy piston thread so I can sell forged Pistons.


You think your suttle little tidbits are not seen.

It's a great motor....... And you most likely haven't seen a cylinder yet.

If you have one in your shop take a photo in les then the next 10 minutes time stamped against my post..... And make sure the photo is next to today date on a calendar with you yourself in the photo.

If you can do this, then you earn the right to be here posting your ( cylinder finish ) piston theories.

If the picture doesn't happen then we will go from there.

POST IT ! I really want to see it !

Then we can go to the next photo moment ( where You and I post pics of who has the most 850 cylinders this moment in their shop to make bold statements about )

Go ! 9:59 seconds and counting

Dan


.

 

[snowmobiler]

.LOL.