$7 gas

[xrated]

That is an incorrect statement. People are researching this as we speak and have been for the last couple of years at least. I think it is called cellulosic ethanol or something like that, but it utilizes switch grass. They know the starting point and they know the end point, but finding a way to do it while using less energy and other chemicals has been the problem.

wiki

I know we are looking into switch, but why would the farmers give up corn? Ethanol has turned into the feel good Big Business and nobody will take on the farmers....at least not that I can see. In an ideal world we'd be running algea.

Snowfox, the book doesn't flat out talk about farming in that regard. Just how in some areas you are paid not to grow a crop, yet 3 states over you can grow it with government water and get other aid as well.

 

[ruffryder]

I know we are looking into switch, but why would the farmers give up corn?

To make more money? It is about yield per acre. With a different crop you would get more yield = more ethanol = more profits for a given chunk of land.

I am not sure if the plan is to replace corn farms with switch grass... maybe some. I would need to do more research to figure that out.

 

[xrated]

To make more money? It is about yield per acre. With a different crop you would get more yield = more ethanol = more profits for a given chunk of land.

I am not sure if the plan is to replace corn farms with switch grass... maybe some. I would need to do more research to figure that out.

I know that makes sense...but when has that ever mattered. Corn is super subsidized, why leave it?

 

[modsledr]

I would like to know why so many people think that drilling more wells and finding more reserves will bring the price down in the U.S. & Canada?? (for the record, I'm all for increasing U.S. and Canadian production, to keep the money at home).

Why would the oil companies not sell on the open market at market prices?

The only way prices are coming down is if the gov't steps in and sets the price...which they will never do because of the inevitable lawsuits...and it would most likely be found unconstitutional.

Now, if the gov't would get in the oil business, that is another story (and another topic!!) lol

 

[hilinerider]

need to get rid of this crp welfare program that has half of this area vacant with all the small towns drying up and blowing away, all the checks go to the big city or arizona, millions of acres that are perfect for growing switch or camelina(really good oil seed)

 

[Melonhead]

keep crying, this is good.

btw, get back to work

 

[xrated]

need to get rid of this crp welfare program that has half of this area vacant with all the small towns drying up and blowing away, all the checks go to the big city or arizona, millions of acres that are perfect for growing switch or camelina(really good oil seed)

So you want the upland bird population to drop, the duck pop to drop and in general all wildlife population to drop off? Course I'd be fine if the land wa growing multie purpose stuff like switch grass.

 

[winter brew]

And another.....http://money.cnn.com/2008/05/06/news/economy/oil_profits_tax/index.htm?postversion=2008050612

 

[Beels]

So you want the upland bird population to drop, the duck pop to drop and in general all wildlife population to drop off? Course I'd be fine if the land wa growing multie purpose stuff like switch grass.

I hope you're joking. On this side of the border, every acre that can possibly produce a crop is being farmed and there's more frikken wildlife than you can shake a stick at.

 

[CBX]

Ethanol

For those of you who actually think that this whole thing is driven by farmers, i encourage you to do some research.......... look up the Energy Independence and security act of 2007......... to think a farmer is to blame is awfully close minded........seriously. ethanol production has been mandated by the feds. commerical switchgrass production isnt there yet.........

what your seeing in energy and food pricing isnt really hard to understand.

oil is traded in USD........thanks to those who made that happen...... USD aint worth jack because of monetary policy and the fed reserve having created a tech bubble, burst, then create a housing bubble, burst, now there is a commodity bubble going. because currency isnt worth jack. and in order to keep the investment hype up interest rate is supressed to encourage investment. so investors invest in commodites (oil, fuels, gold, grains, etc.) they all need to show yeilds.......after all, they are using your roth IRA's and 401K's to do that. and they all require yeild to work.

if the government really wanted to fix pricing they could. but they dont. why you ask? it comes down to debt...... dont kid yourselves. there is plenty of oil here in the USA and alaska to meet every single need. but what would happen if we cut off opec. all of a sudden oil sales in USD is no longer............what would that do to the US dollar?........ not to mention the economy of the middle east. it would probalby tank it...... the dollar has been propped up by being the currency of crude oil. and other countries buying the U.S. debt. making it a viscous cycle.

its all a smoke and mirrors paper trade.

so how does this get fixed? ya got me......... i think getting rid of career politicans would be a great start.

 

[ruffryder]

so how does this get fixed? ya got me......... i think getting rid of career politicans would be a great start.

Totally agree. I had a place mat once, had all the presidents on it and other info. Once thing that got my attention was that in the beginning the people who were presidents did something else... like doctors, lawyers, engineers, military personnel, business people (not sure on that one). Towards the end it was all politicians as careers. We need people with more experience out in the rest of the world, rather then people expert at playing the game.

 

[Snow Fox]

Dang CBX, that is a very thought provoking and well written post. I also agree that career politicians are a BAD thing. The founding fathers wanted citizens to offer their time to this great country and then go back to their private lives. This country desperately needs term limits. Politicians are so out of touch with the normal, run of the mill American. They do not have a clue of what should be in the best interest of this country. We have the two party system to thank for this. It is near impossible for a third party candidate to get elected to a national office. Ross Perot was the last, but he had the money to do it. With the two party system we have one more choice than a dictatorship. This is what a democracy is supposed to be??

 

[onlyrotax]

Dang CBX, that is a very thought provoking and well written post. I also agree that career politicians are a BAD thing. The founding fathers wanted citizens to offer their time to this great country and then go back to their private lives. This country desperately needs term limits. Politicians are so out of touch with the normal, run of the mill American. They do not have a clue of what should be in the best interest of this country. We have the two party system to thank for this. It is near impossible for a third party candidate to get elected to a national office. Ross Perot was the last, but he had the money to do it. With the two party system we have one more choice than a dictatorship. This is what a democracy is supposed to be??[/QUOTE What he said, and now we are about to take the next step, I do not believe a standing senator has ever been elected president and now we have no choice but to elect one. I have my doubts about McCain but at least he is ex-military.

 

[xrated]

I hope you're joking. On this side of the border, every acre that can possibly produce a crop is being farmed and there's more frikken wildlife than you can shake a stick at.

I'm not joking. You telling me that every available acre being farmed, and the subsequent tileling, and fert, use of extra water is good? Sure deer may love farmland, but other critters require other things.

Southern MN had terribel flooding last year with up to 18" of rain in one day. Streams flooded out terrible. Are you telling me that the damage would have been as bad if everything wasn't tilled, tiled and such?

I'm just saying planting crops all over isn't really the best thing all the time.

CBX, I get what your saying, but I still think the farmers pushed along with the feds. Why wouldn't they push for more places to sell a crop? But now ethanol is Big Business spawned by Dems, etc so it's here to stay.

 

[CBX]

I'm not joking. You telling me that every available acre being farmed, and the subsequent tileling, and fert, use of extra water is good? Sure deer may love farmland, but other critters require other things.

Southern MN had terribel flooding last year with up to 18" of rain in one day. Streams flooded out terrible. Are you telling me that the damage would have been as bad if everything wasn't tilled, tiled and such?

I'm just saying planting crops all over isn't really the best thing all the time.

CBX, I get what your saying, but I still think the farmers pushed along with the feds. Why wouldn't they push for more places to sell a crop? But now ethanol is Big Business spawned by Dems, etc so it's here to stay.

well X-rated. i also grow corn for a living as part of my business. has ethanol been turned into a politcal football...... yes....very much so. dont think the farmer is the one who made this all happen. i work closely with a company that is one of the biggest names in the U.S. corn industry. and they dont like it at all........ what does that tell you? they understand the implications of whats going on. do you realize that Urea, a nitrogen fertilizer is nearly 1000$ per ton USD right now?

as much as i hate to say it, one of two things will happen here soon. either things will tank, or things will get much much more expensive. i know alot of guys who have sold forward contracts for 10-18$ grains, and 6$ plus Bu of corn. i've heard rumors of 50$ corn in the field for corn silage in california.

this situation could get very ugly. i cant imagine that food processors wont pass the cost on directly to consumers. i see an 8-10$ box of cereal and a 25$ pizza a real possibility.

who knows. maybe they're letting the dollar tank as a reason to introduce the amero???........man now thats a scary thought. i really hope i'm wrong on that one.

 

[xrated]

dont think the farmer is the one who made this all happen

cbx I'm not saying it is all or was all the farmer. I know there alot of players in the ethanol game.

I don't want it to seem like I hate farmers, I just have troubles with all the government money that gets thrown into some things and not others...it's kinda hard to explain via typing I guess.

 

[SLEDtv.org]

We can dispute how and why prices are heading where they are....

But the real question remains... does this effect when and how often you sled... or would you not care if it was $20 a gallon, would you sled just as much?

 

[Snorider]

CBX I'm glad you can summerize the main points better than I can, because I have tried writting 4 ro 5 replies to this thread and they end up being as long as a USDA report. Because i think i was trying to go way too in depth than anyone on here would care to know or learn about that dosen't already know about it.

politics and ethanol have played a part in corn going up and as mentioned before other alternatives that produce double or more gal/per/acre are out there but it takes time. the goverment mandated push for bio fuels is what originally brought corn to the table for mass production bio fuels. with most of all corn production going to animal feed as DDG the by products of ethanol still get fed.


food is going to be more expensive and it's easy to see that coming and to figure out why. it's a trickle down effect, crude is at all time highs which as everyone on here knows fuel has gone through the roof. farming and all agriculture has a direct relationship with oil. and not the profits. the fuel, fertilizer and chemicals all depends on what oil does. the main thing that farmers have going against them is that while everyone else starting from the elevators gets to put on a fuel surcharge to help make up for the added cost of fuel, we do not. and if they didn't put that on they would go belly up. This is alot of the reason food has gone up. It takes more money for raw materials to get to you in the store as a finished product.

the United states loves it cheap food and this is why farming gets goverment money. the dollar being weak dosen't help but prices shot up for grain and everything else because the world has run out of reserves. india who holds usually the most grain reserves was basically out of wheat, and this year all the major grain producing countries had Devastating years except the US. we are compeletly all supply and demand. this is why more corn is being grown, i mean you wouldn't keep making or doing something that lost money would you? and with demand being high it has helped alot of farmers who made through the past couple years, and didn't go belly up, pay for past sins if they hadn't sold their crop too early.(the bank and bills won't wait) there are execptions though, there are some farmers out there with alot of old money behind them, but don't kid yourselves it's not as many as you might think.

CBX has it right on again too, something is going to happen and it's not going to be pretty.

I think i should quit now because i think i an going in to too much detail about this. but one last thought is we have one h3ll of a mess that we call goverment and they are so far out of touch with reality it's not even funny. Just like the stalling on the farm bill this year. But the people who could do the best jobs and get the country started back down the LONG path to getting us back on track flat out don't want to do it or don't have the money behind them.

 

[travydog]

http://www.keloland.com/NewsDetail6162.cfm?Id=0,69337

 

[hilinerider]

if you put all the crp back in production that is on land that is prime farmland (around here 70%) you wouldn't make a dent in the wildlife population, all they have to do is move over to the next pasture/coulee/creek, just because the crp isn't there doesn't mean they will all die, our game populations haven't incresed or decreased because crp, drought and hard winters does that