$7 gas

[xtralettucetomatoe580]

Just face it, too many people benefit from high oil prices to actually see a change. It takes a real politician to change that. The three clowns running for president and the 535 in the House and Senate sure as hell wont change anything. It will have to get worse before it gets better anyways if anyone actually does a thing about it.

Dont even get me started on how stupid a gas tax holiday is.

 

[Dakota Drifter]

The public is so dependant on gas that supply and demand theory doesn't work. The oil companies want to make the same amount or more money then the year before. If demand goes down they must raise prices to get the same profit. We use more ethonal, drive less, get more fuel efficient cars the more gas has to go up for the oil companies to make the same profit.

Another thing to think about. Obama is out spending hilary 4 to 1. He has broke records for campaign contributions. Obama is muslim and our oil comes from muslim countries. Is the oil prices going up to give more money to Obamas campaign???

 

[xrated]

We use more ethonal, drive less, get more fuel efficient cars the more gas has to go up for the oil companies to make the same profit.

yet ethanol goes up right along with gas? Dare to figure out why? could it be that this wonder cure all corn based crop being shoved on us isn't so good. If it's so great why aren't the farmers figuring out how to run machinery off it? Why aren't we taking example from Brazil and finding better more efficent crops for it then corn?

 

[modsledr]

WHAT
it already is -its called anti trust.....it forces cost control...it limits any one company from controling the market and their profits.so open your eyes take an economic coarse and learn about how the government has been doing exactly that for years and it needs to be applied to oil companies

Anti-Trust does not "force cost control". It controls monopolies by ensuring their business practices dont damage consumers, and it prevents agreements between companies that are harmful to consumers. (maybe it's you who needs to take a class??)

Like WinterBrew said, the oil companies have been investigated extensively and have been found to have done nothing wrong.

If you want to make a change, take petroleum off the exchanges so SPECULATION cant affect the price of a barrel of oil which is where most oil companies make their profits...not at the pump (except for those who own the wells AND refineries).

 

[asu_gt]

It was from a house committee hearing on Rising Diesel Prices:
http://inside.c-spanarchives.org:8080/cspan/cspan.csp?command=dprogram&record=564121044

Based on the comments from the John Flemy, Chief Economist, American Petroleum Institute and Tyson Slocum, Director, Public Citizen, Energy Program, it did not appear to include ethanol or alternative supplements. The 2 billion came from the guy representing the oil companies and the 9 billion came from the guy representing the Public citizen group. The discrepancy seemed to be related to reporting and tax benefits and such.

Anyone know if other countries are experienceing the same RATE of increase in gas and diesel prices as us in NA?
jay

ASU, do you have any statistics or reports to back up your claim of subsidies? Are you sure you're not referring to those for Ethanol?

Extralettuce, nice points. You've got the facts.

 

[xtralettucetomatoe580]

Anti-Trust does not "force cost control". It controls monopolies by ensuring their business practices dont damage consumers, and it prevents agreements between companies that are harmful to consumers. (maybe it's you who needs to take a class??)

Like WinterBrew said, the oil companies have been investigated extensively and have been found to have done nothing wrong.

If you want to make a change, take petroleum off the exchanges so SPECULATION cant affect the price of a barrel of oil which is where most oil companies make their profits...not at the pump (except for those who own the wells AND refineries).

Right on with your third paragraph. But a trust will be able to raise prices because of their nature. When a company holds a vast majority of a market segment they do have the ability to be more competitive and drive smaller competitors to follow suit. Your right when you say it does not "force" control but it almost always follows. But oil companies are not a trust in the first place so it doesnt even matter about anit-trust laws or not. They implement good business practices and make a good profit on something they have NO control over. And that is the price of oil itself. If you think about it, it takes just as much processing for a barrel that is $124 as it does for a barrel at $62. So obviously they are not going to be going through rough times.

 

[PLUMR]

first off all, of you take away the govt. incentives for ethanol blends the price at the pump would be a whole lot higher for it. Letting corn go back to a food source should help pricing in a lot of markets ( might knock the farmers profits back to where they were pre the ethanol push).
second(excuse me if I am wrong), but doesn't OPEC set the oil prices at their monthly meetings. And OPEC is not just middle eastern countries, but about 95% of all oil producing nations belong. So if the US and Canada stay away from OPEC and produce their own supply and the govt. controls the pricing (I remember controlled pricing and gas at 25 cents per gallon), would that not help alleviate high prices. Sure the govt. would screw it up some how, but more drilling and refineries mean more jobs, and price regulating should help.
And third, I don't begrudge the oil companies making a profit. If my company only made a 10% profit annually, I couldn't live the way I have become accustomed. Everyone focuses on the $$ of profit and not the % profit. Sure billions are big numbers, but it takes 9 times more than that to run the companies.

 

[snowmanx]

first off all, of you take away the govt. incentives for ethanol blends the price at the pump would be a whole lot higher for it. Letting corn go back to a food source should help pricing in a lot of markets ( might knock the farmers profits back to where they were pre the ethanol push).
second(excuse me if I am wrong), but doesn't OPEC set the oil prices at their monthly meetings. And OPEC is not just middle eastern countries, but about 95% of all oil producing nations belong. So if the US and Canada stay away from OPEC and produce their own supply and the govt. controls the pricing (I remember controlled pricing and gas at 25 cents per gallon), would that not help alleviate high prices. Sure the govt. would screw it up some how, but more drilling and refineries mean more jobs, and price regulating should help.
And third, I don't begrudge the oil companies making a profit. If my company only made a 10% profit annually, I couldn't live the way I have become accustomed. Everyone focuses on the $$ of profit and not the % profit. Sure billions are big numbers, but it takes 9 times more than that to run the companies.

I pretty much agree with everything that you have said...but......

Do you really believe that oil companies profit margin is ONLY 9-10%???LOL I think that is a bunch of crap, they have enough resources, write offs, etc to make it look like anything that they want to, not to hard to manipulate the numbers when you are as . If they were making money, I believe about 9-10% profit margin when oil was at $30-60 per barrel, do you really believe that at $120 per barrel that they are STILL only making 10% profit margin?

You guys that believe what they are selling, but I don't buy it for one minute.

 

[snowmanx]

first off all, of you take away the govt. incentives for ethanol blends the price at the pump would be a whole lot higher for it. Letting corn go back to a food source should help pricing in a lot of markets ( might knock the farmers profits back to where they were pre the ethanol push).
second(excuse me if I am wrong), but doesn't OPEC set the oil prices at their monthly meetings. And OPEC is not just middle eastern countries, but about 95% of all oil producing nations belong. So if the US and Canada stay away from OPEC and produce their own supply and the govt. controls the pricing (I remember controlled pricing and gas at 25 cents per gallon), would that not help alleviate high prices. Sure the govt. would screw it up some how, but more drilling and refineries mean more jobs, and price regulating should help.
And third, I don't begrudge the oil companies making a profit. If my company only made a 10% profit annually, I couldn't live the way I have become accustomed. Everyone focuses on the $$ of profit and not the % profit. Sure billions are big numbers, but it takes 9 times more than that to run the companies.

I pretty much agree with everything that you have said...but......

Do you really believe that oil companies profit margin is ONLY 9-10%???LOL I think that is a bunch of crap, they have enough resources, write offs, etc to make it look like anything that they want to, not to hard to manipulate the numbers when you are as . If they were making money, I believe about 9-10% profit margin when oil was at $30-60 per barrel, do you really believe that at $120 per barrel that they are STILL only making 10% profit margin?

You guys can believe what they are selling, but I don't buy it for one minute.

 

[Snow Fox]

We use more ethonal, drive less, get more fuel efficient cars the more gas has to go up for the oil companies to make the same profit.

yet ethanol goes up right along with gas? Dare to figure out why? could it be that this wonder cure all corn based crop being shoved on us isn't so good. If it's so great why aren't the farmers figuring out how to run machinery off it? Why aren't we taking example from Brazil and finding better more efficent crops for it then corn?

There is a better alternative for ethonal, it is called switchgrass. Why it is not being used to produce ethonal is beyond me. Switchgrass will produce way more gallons of fuel per acre than corn. Switchgrass is native to North America and is drought tolerant and takes very little water to grow. Rainwater would be enough irrigation. There is so much CRP ground in the midwest that could be planted with Switchgrass to produce ethanol. See this link: abcnews.go.com/GMA/Business/story?id=1566784


The other alternative (which is better) is hydrogen power. The technology has been around for a long time now. There are people building hydrogen powered motors in their basements, it is not that difficult. Go to youtube and type in Hydrogen motor, all sorts of videos come up.

I believe that it comes down to one thing, and that is greed. Large corporations (oil companies, etc.) control the dollars in the government. To many politicians are bought and paid for. Lobbyists control what is happening in our state and local governments, which in not always for the good of the American people. Only for the good of large corporations that keep getting richer and more powerful. Americans as a whole are so blind as to what is happening in this country.

 

[ruffryder]

There is a better alternative for ethonal, it is called switchgrass. Why it is not being used to produce ethonal is beyond me. Switchgrass will produce way more gallons of fuel per acre than corn. Switchgrass is native to North America and is drought tolerant and takes very little water to grow. Rainwater would be enough irrigation. There is so much CRP ground in the midwest that could be planted with Switchgrass to produce ethanol. See this link: abcnews.go.com/GMA/Business/story?id=1566784


The other alternative (which is better) is hydrogen power. The technology has been around for a long time now. There are people building hydrogen powered motors in their basements, it is not that difficult. Go to youtube and type in Hydrogen motor, all sorts of videos come up.

Ethanol from switch grass is a work in progress. Lots of people know about it's potential, but finding away to do it efficiently has been the problem so far... I think that and being able to utilize yard waste and garbage for that matter (think Mr. Fusion) would be easy ways to produce some energy from things that are just thrown away or not utilized anymore.

Ethanol from corn was the start, and was a means of getting interest / govt support into alternative fuels.

Hydrogen, well where does it come from? I have really wondered why the big electric utilities are not pushing for the electric car, hydrogen economy at all. I mean in most other business areas, breaking into new markets provides big earnings / growth.

Having utilities utilize more of there generation and transmission/distribution capacity (currently sized for a couple days a year during the day (peak load)) would allow for faster rates of return on equipment and the ability to sell more energy. Increase of utilization of infrastructure seems like a no brainer to me.

Hopefully you will see the big utilities join together and start lobbying for the electric cars / hydrogen economy more. They have the clout / power / money... seems like they are afraid to jump into the 21st century with it.

 

[xtralettucetomatoe580]

Hydrogen is quite easy to come by. In fact you can fill your car up with water itself which for the snowesters who havent gradumacated third grade yet is H2O. Two parts Hyrdrogen to one part Oxygen. The only problem is how do you get that Hydrogen to split off from its O2. Boron a very abundant element is used to do this and you have a H2 product that will burn cleaner, more efficient, and more relaible then any fossil fuel based fuel. So in pretty dumbed down terms you fill your tank up with water and add some boron every now and then; plus the car you drive today can be fitted with what it would take to make it run.

Now the problem with that is the massive amount of restructuring in our gov, economy, and lifestyles to make a switch from boron filling stations from Gas. (You need very little boron:water for a ratio)

 

[xrated]

There is a better alternative for ethonal, it is called switchgrass. Why it is not being used to produce ethonal is beyond me.

Cause good old american farmers don't grow switch grass or to much of it to make big bucks...

 

[foothills m8]

Hello i am from canada (alberta) i have read a bit about what is above and all the opinions.We here in alberta have lots of big usa oil companys here doing work, my opinion is we are trying are best to get oil & gas to the south we have tons of oil to go south.Inn north america the usa is the big user.They have put oil and gas on the world markets so markets dictates prices.I do understand the usa does inport most of there oil but We are sure trying to change that.WE need plant to refine the oil faster, ummmmmmm is the usa in for a new presedent, ummm go hillary for me.....

 

[xrated]

Snowfox,

go down to the bookstore or library and get Cadillac Desert. It's about water in the west, but it will open your eyes into the Farmer rackett and just how f'ed up it is and then you will see more so why WE are using corn for ethanol.

 

[Dogmeat]

WallStreet (Goldman Sachs) now says $200 per barrel is a possibility.

200/122 x 3.999 (premium current price) = $6.67

Would this put a damper on sledding???

Not gonna cut into sledding, but it'll sure cut into my mod budget for next year.

But, such is life.

 

[Snow Fox]

Snowfox,

go down to the bookstore or library and get Cadillac Desert. It's about water in the west, but it will open your eyes into the Farmer rackett and just how f'ed up it is and then you will see more so why WE are using corn for ethanol.

I will do that xrated, I am always looking for something good to read. I spoke to my grandfather a while back about switchgrass. He was surprised to hear about the capibility to turn it into ethanol. I am originally from Nebraska and that is where the majority of my family still lives. My grandparents ranch and my grandfather was saying that switchgrass grows wild, it is basically a weed that you can't get rid of. It is all over some of his CRP ground. The fuel (switchgrass) is already abundant, it just needs to get used. The economy in Nebraska is going down the toilet, this is after all of these ethanol plants were built to help the economy. The price of corn is getting so high, that I worry for my family who ranch. With the high price of corn to feed the cattle and the cost of fuel to cut hay, etc. etc. I don't know how ranchers will make it. Growing up it was interesting to see. The rancher always had old tractors, equipment, etc. While farmers had new equipment and always had a new pickup. It always confused me because the farmers would actually end up in the red after harvest. When I asked about this, I learned the farmers were getting paid by the government to grow their crops. The ranchers had to make it on their own. I am assuming that is what part of the book you mentioned is about? It will be the consumer that takes the biggest hit, since all food, beef included will go through the roof in price. To me using switchgrass that can be grown so easily makes so much sense and it can only help with so many things including the price of fuel & food.

 

[graveler]

http://www.saudi-us-relations.org/articles/2008/ioi/080509-bourland-oil.html

 

[ruffryder]

Cause good old american farmers don't grow switch grass or to much of it to make big bucks...

That is an incorrect statement. People are researching this as we speak and have been for the last couple of years at least. I think it is called cellulosic ethanol or something like that, but it utilizes switch grass. They know the starting point and they know the end point, but finding a way to do it while using less energy and other chemicals has been the problem.

wiki

 

[mountaincat68papa]

Someday maybe it will all make sense to the greenies to allow responsible drilling and exploration for oil and build new refrineries in the US but the way it is going now I doubt it. More wilderness areas being added, more touchy feely kumbaya people jumping on the green band wagon. dont get me wrong Im all for keeping places beauriful, I snowmobile in a lot of them and they are as just as beautiful when I leave them but with resposible drilling and more refinreres = more jobs less dependance on foriegn oil lower gas prices lower everything but the greenies are a powerful politaccly correct rightous force. The next president whomever it will be does not look like its going to get better.