Thanks, I think I might try this since I think the powerclaw 3 inch is superior over the polaris 3 inch.
2022?
- Thread starter spag900
- Start date
Except for sidehilling, the powerclaw will washout before the Polaris track will.
For my Khaos, I had the same plan as u, after putting 600+mi on the Polaris 3in, i don't see the need in swapping it out. Instead, i spent that money on the elevate spindles and TRS /Indy specialties clutching. Those were greater improvements.
Now if this Polaris track falls apart, i will likely put a Powerclaw on as a replacement.
Sent it
Awesome, ya I think Ill try running it stock for a bit anyways. after running a doo 850 and the cat 800 I find the powerclaw just to be the most durable and works so darn good. This will be my first polaris so time will tell.
The last guy I've rode with who had a motor go down was on a '20 Cat that ingested snow. Hard to get far bashing Polaris when you've run through a tube of RTV to keep your cat from suffering the same fate. That said, although every manufacturer has their black marks, they're usually not as bad as they're made out to be (and there's almost always an aftermarket solution – long rod Dragon/Pro 800s with a properly balanced and maintained clutch hold up as well as any OE motor, for instance).
Anyway, I do see a path forward for Cat. For starters, forget turbos. You'll either incur a ton of R&D costs you can't afford, or put out a product that won't be as good to ride as the competition and will bite you in warranty claims. Most of us would buy a turbo sled just for the heck of it if we had cash to burn, but as long as the riding budget is a real thing, it isn't worth sacrificing for. There's always the aftermarket for people who love the Ascender and can't live without boost. It'd be worth bumping the displacement on the Ctec if the current architecture supports it, but it's not an overriding priority. The fact is, an average rider will still have fun even on a 600, so breaking the bank to get the extra 10HP from an 850-ish engine isn't likely to pay off when Doo and Poo are already ahead of you there.
I do think Cat is behind in the chassis department: I'd argue that the AXYS chassis is superior to the Ascender, but only marginally so, and in a few years a .5 generational upgrade could even the score. An all-new chassis and engine to truly take the crown would probably take money they'd never get back, and just bringing the right people in would be a challenge. That said, I do get the sense that Textron has cut back too much; you don't need as big a team as Doo or Poo, but once you cut past a certain point, all your design team can do is delay an inevitable demise.
The big focus I'd suggest is keeping prices where they are while still improving enough year-over-year that a '24 Cat would be a noticeably nicer sled than a '22. It doesn't take an all-new chassis; little things add up. Polaris is talking about the Matryx as something all-new, and even non-Polaris types are raving, but the only chassis changes are the tunnel and cooler. I'm not suggesting Cat could match Doo or Poo without an all-new chassis, but if they can give buyers some significant improvements every year and hold prices down, they would start to see gains. I might be optimistic to think they can hold prices where they are, but if they could, it would be huge. In a couple years, if they're still selling a solid mountain sled for $14k while the equivalent Doo or Poo is pushing $20k, I just don't see enough developments to justify the extra money to guys who just want something fun to ride with a warranty.
Lastly, regarding factory riders, to my mind that's the worst place to dump money. I don't care who's riding what. I know some people follow professional riders as religiously as their favorite quarterback or NASCAR driver, but to the value market – I'm thinking experienced riders who just want to get out and play in their favorite spots – it just doesn't move the needle. It's worth budgeting to bring on some up-and-coming riders along with some experienced loyalists, but I don't see how a big investment is going to be what helps the scrappy underdog win this fight.
Anyway, I do see a path forward for Cat. For starters, forget turbos. You'll either incur a ton of R&D costs you can't afford, or put out a product that won't be as good to ride as the competition and will bite you in warranty claims. Most of us would buy a turbo sled just for the heck of it if we had cash to burn, but as long as the riding budget is a real thing, it isn't worth sacrificing for. There's always the aftermarket for people who love the Ascender and can't live without boost. It'd be worth bumping the displacement on the Ctec if the current architecture supports it, but it's not an overriding priority. The fact is, an average rider will still have fun even on a 600, so breaking the bank to get the extra 10HP from an 850-ish engine isn't likely to pay off when Doo and Poo are already ahead of you there.
I do think Cat is behind in the chassis department: I'd argue that the AXYS chassis is superior to the Ascender, but only marginally so, and in a few years a .5 generational upgrade could even the score. An all-new chassis and engine to truly take the crown would probably take money they'd never get back, and just bringing the right people in would be a challenge. That said, I do get the sense that Textron has cut back too much; you don't need as big a team as Doo or Poo, but once you cut past a certain point, all your design team can do is delay an inevitable demise.
The big focus I'd suggest is keeping prices where they are while still improving enough year-over-year that a '24 Cat would be a noticeably nicer sled than a '22. It doesn't take an all-new chassis; little things add up. Polaris is talking about the Matryx as something all-new, and even non-Polaris types are raving, but the only chassis changes are the tunnel and cooler. I'm not suggesting Cat could match Doo or Poo without an all-new chassis, but if they can give buyers some significant improvements every year and hold prices down, they would start to see gains. I might be optimistic to think they can hold prices where they are, but if they could, it would be huge. In a couple years, if they're still selling a solid mountain sled for $14k while the equivalent Doo or Poo is pushing $20k, I just don't see enough developments to justify the extra money to guys who just want something fun to ride with a warranty.
Lastly, regarding factory riders, to my mind that's the worst place to dump money. I don't care who's riding what. I know some people follow professional riders as religiously as their favorite quarterback or NASCAR driver, but to the value market – I'm thinking experienced riders who just want to get out and play in their favorite spots – it just doesn't move the needle. It's worth budgeting to bring on some up-and-coming riders along with some experienced loyalists, but I don't see how a big investment is going to be what helps the scrappy underdog win this fight.
looks like the intake is still out the front..... such a terrible design!!!!!!!!!!!!!
My 21 has the silicone dampers and heavier gauge springs and still broke one at 229 miles.
I do a dab of high-temp RTV gasket maker on all my exhaust springs. Seems to be working at 1500ish Km
Guys complaining about snow on running boards: it can always be better, but I had to ride my 2005 M7 last weekend with full boards. Fully reminded me how good we have it now.
Ya and then you either install aftermarket boards or ride a sled with good ones and you get disappointed that cat won’t make that simple change
Running boards, seat, rear bumper.. surprises me that cat doesn't offer a "pro mtn" version and just adds the accessories from the catalog.. i run these parts, works flawless, add the ascender/or lifted spindles and they would have an all new sled in the eyes of the interweb...
Euro model.. Long cooler, 2.6 lug, estart, NO ALPHA
Some dealers were able to order basically this same sled as a floor model for 2021. My local dealer got 2 or 3 of them.Euro model.. Long cooler, 2.6 lug, estart, NO ALPHA
My dealer in rangeley Maine still has one on the floor as well. 2021 twin rail. I believe it has a gen 1 c tech 800 in it though. Could just be all talk though.
I have a 07 M and it's a huge difference from my Alpha, but sitting in the shop yesterday I measured belly pan clearance and the M has more. My point is if AC would have extended spindles, changed boards and fixed that snow flap rear bumper mess for the Ascender chassis they would have sold a lot more sleds. Look what Polaris has done with the Matrix (non slash) new plastic new fuel tank narrower rider position cut tunnel. Same as Cat did with the Ascender. Now everybody says Cat is riding on the same 2012 chassis while Polaris has this new wonderful chassis and really its an Axys with new plastic. Now with all that being said if I were buying today I would be looking real hard at the Slash this after years of bleeding green. No matter what we ride now it is a whole bunch better every year.
Not sure we're talking about the same thing, but my old EDGE has coolant through the running boards. Snow eliminators really helped, but still in some conditions and temperatures, those things are just slush magnets. Nice that it'll all melt if you let it idle long enough, but a few minutes of playing and they're packed up again!
Nothing on the matryx slash is even remotely close to cat asceder chassis. Taller, narrower, shorter better designed tunnel, more power, a thing called fit and finish. Better boards, better gauge, storage, belt holder, estart with 11 gallon tank, waaay lighter plus waaay easier steering. Cat has better traction but polaris jumps up on top of snow and goes quicker than any and i bet the matryx is another level above what I'm comparing it to. My alpha also uses more gas and oil than the polaris. At least a gallon or 2 more fuel. Sad to see my alpha go but I'm riding a boost next year.
I know u have both, i also have both and i have to disagree on some of this.
My Ctech uses much less oil, so much less in fact that i put a few oz of oil in my gas tank every time i fuel up.
Both 800's
Alpha - avg 60:1
Khaos - avg 42:1
Both avg 5mpg.
Fit and finish is honestly comparable.
Cat wins in some areas and Poo in others.
The Alpha has a much narrower seat/ tank area than the Axys, the Matryx will now be comparable to the Alpha. That's the first thing i noticed, riding the Khaos, is how fat the tank and seat are, can't put ur feet against the tunnel unless ur bowlegged.
Getting up on top of the snow faster, that really depends on the type of snow u ride.
Here, the Alpha wins 90% of the time.
As far as "much narrower", that is mostly at the top of the sled. The bottom, that actually contacts the snow, is only slightly narrower. Untill they put one ski in the front, i don't need the top half of the chassis any narrower. It's not a bad thing to be skinny up top but as it is right now, u can lay ur sled over in the shop and the handle bars hit the ground before the top of the side panel can.
Sent it
In Montana the alpha digs down where the polaris jumps on top. Alpha definitely has traction.
My alpha uses more gas than my buddy's kaos every time by a gallon or 2.
Until they get rid of that useless abortion in front of the bars their fit and finish sucks imo.
I do like the cat seat better than all of them. Polaris tank is fat but i have a skinz and the matryx is narrower than cat. The axys is narrower and the matryx will be that much more. Weight more centralized and less of it.
The alpha is the funnest sled out there just not the best sled imo. Could be so much more.
My alpha uses more gas than my buddy's kaos every time by a gallon or 2.
Until they get rid of that useless abortion in front of the bars their fit and finish sucks imo.
I do like the cat seat better than all of them. Polaris tank is fat but i have a skinz and the matryx is narrower than cat. The axys is narrower and the matryx will be that much more. Weight more centralized and less of it.
The alpha is the funnest sled out there just not the best sled imo. Could be so much more.
