2011 PRO A ARMS BENT

[IceCap]

My theory is the ski hits something under the snow and moves the ski tip upward, bending the rear tube downward by twisting it rather than blunt force bending. There is little suspension movement in that case and all of the force transfers to that point. Mine bend there almost everytime. They need to come up with a new design. I think the weak link is the bend just after the shock mount. I think Holz has the same problem. I've bent plenty of those as well. I only bend 1 stocker before I go aftermarket!

I agree with your theory..... My first and only ride this year I hit a rock with my left ski and it bounced the sled upwards and I didn't think that was fast or hard enough to cause any damage.
After the sled was home I noticed the lower rear A-arm tube was bent. (sagging downward)

It also had no marks or chips on the paint.... so no evidence that it was hit.
However the paint was chipping near the knuckle. (Probably from twisting force)
It seems strange that I took two 42" prybars and tried to staighten the lower tube..... it straightened a bit ... but man did it take a lot of force.

Question do the chromoly after market ones bend or are they brittle and snap because they are stronger?

 

[tdblakes]

I think the main point here is, and what most of us are thinkig, is that they are a tad weaker than they they need to be to achieve that protection, and at $175 a pop, something needs to change.

I agree. I had to pay $230 last year at Frontier in Laramie for 1 for my Assault, but I had to have it... If I had some money sitting around I would put a set of Zbros on and keep the stockers for spares.

 

[crf118r]

Question do the chromoly after market ones bend or are they brittle and snap because they are stronger?

In my experience with Holz, which are cro-mo, they bend similarly, just not as easily. I haven't had or heard of any snapping, but that's not to say it isn't impossible.

 

[skibreeze]

I picked up some tubing that the inner diameter is the same as the outer diameter of the A arm and the same thickness. I then cut the tubing into 3" lengths and then cut it in half lengthwise. I then cut a slit where the support plate joins the tube. I did this so I could get the 1/2 sleeve over the spot where the stock tube always bends. I just scribed where I wanted it and then ground off the powder coat, welded on the 1/2 sleeve and repainted it. I haven't gotten a chance to ride with these yet, but I am hoping that it will make them stronger without going too far. It is a Pita, but I have the time to try and see how it works. I wanted to go this route simply because I didn't want to buy any wider A arms and definitely don't want to have to buy entire sets.

 

[POLZIN]

I'm not knocking your product, I think that those look real nice. But, I'm not a big fan of people using automotive heim joints for the lower a arm. To me, there is a reason that on Holz, Z-Broz, and even the stock ones, there is alot of material surrounding a spherical joint to take the abuse of the force acting on this area. Best of luck though.

Take a look at serouis baja race trucks ,rock crawlers ,etc . I'd be willing to bet these are as strong or stonger than what you list with the possible exception of Z-broz arms . The do build a durable looking product. there are many other advantage to this system besides strength and bling. if you bend a holz arm you buy a set . in the unlikley event that you bend or damage these beyond reapair you buy that arm . uppers are all the same lowers are all the same . no left /right . the most expensive joint on the set is 18.00 buck retailand should be easily changed in the field with mostly tools that are on the sled already . like I said lots of advantages .

 

[BigBoreManiac]

At the risk of getting flamed again for my extensive experience (maybe abuse)with A-arm failures, I will offer my 0.02 worth based on observing multiple failed pieces.

The most common mode of failure occurs on the bottom A-arm, back tube inside of the shock attachment. The probable cause is the rigidizing effect of the shock mount causes a stress riser in this region of the tube and concentrates the buckling action of any ski hit. Only on the early Fusion arms did I have any failure that I thought was due to a landing (and there I had a couple). As noted before most failures are attributed to hits to the ski (usally while turned), that torque the A-arm sideways.

If my assessment is correct, looking for arms that don't concentrate the buckling in the tube would definitely have better survivabliity. I also think this same rationale applies to the "protectors", no matter how simple they may be. If the protector stabilizes the lateral buckling loads whatsoever, they drastically reduce the crippling effect in the tube.

For the record, while I am not impressed with the stock survivability, I have had very few failures that I didn't know why happened (except on the Fusion).

 

[Rick!]

I picked up some tubing that the inner diameter is the same as the outer diameter of the A arm and the same thickness. I then cut the tubing into 3" lengths and then cut it in half lengthwise. I then cut a slit where the support plate joins the tube. I did this so I could get the 1/2 sleeve over the spot where the stock tube always bends. I just scribed where I wanted it and then ground off the powder coat, welded on the 1/2 sleeve and repainted it. I haven't gotten a chance to ride with these yet, but I am hoping that it will make them stronger without going too far. It is a Pita, but I have the time to try and see how it works. I wanted to go this route simply because I didn't want to buy any wider A arms and definitely don't want to have to buy entire sets.

I'd work on the "h" part.


Rectangular cross section

• b = width (x-dimension),
• h = height (y-dimension)

 

[skibreeze]

I did, by doubling the wall thickness on one side.

 

[1NaughtyRMK]

So in conclusion...

Stop running into things and wait for some deep POW!

 

[crf118r]

Can you really expect us to wait with these beauties in the garage

 

[F-Bomb]

a couple questions way back...
The 09s and the 11's weigh the same or so close that my shipping mechanical scale didn't let me know an obvious difference. Polaris spec'd a different powder and re-designed the welds but the geometry is identical and crosses over. The shock mount holes are different and so are the hein joints threads fitments.

"does Polaris even stress test"...I don't know about Polaris (well actually yes I do) but I put a demo PRO through some serious, I mean high speed pee blood serious aggressive bump riding and then also saw another demo go through thousands of miles of misc torture. Rental program style stuff. Arms didn't magically fail. Yep they replaced some parts related to impacts and obvious misuse but as a whole the sled really did stand up to above average abuse. If you have a front end part that unexplainably fails under normal use it needs to go back for a lab metal test. There are established metal yield rates and structural weld failure rates for these parts. See your dealer or regional Polaris rep. If you hit something or landed in a fashion that sacked your suspension enough to damage it then PIPE DOWN AND PAY UP. Trying to cheat a company irrgardless of size/money into paying for your misuse is just STEALING. (that is a general commentary not directed towards anyone or anything stated so far in this thread)

Love the comment about looking where you are going...WORD

 

[Arcteryx]

"does Polaris even stress test"...I don't know about Polaris (well actually yes I do) but I put a demo PRO through some serious, I mean high speed pee blood serious aggressive bump riding and then also saw another demo go through thousands of miles of misc torture. Rental program style stuff. Arms didn't magically fail. Yep they replaced some parts related to impacts and obvious misuse but as a whole the sled really did stand up to above average abuse. If you have a front end part that unexplainably fails under normal use it needs to go back for a lab metal test. There are established metal yield rates and structural weld failure rates for these parts. See your dealer or regional Polaris rep. If you hit something or landed in a fashion that sacked your suspension enough to damage it then PIPE DOWN AND PAY UP. Trying to cheat a company irrgardless of size/money into paying for your misuse is just STEALING. (that is a general commentary not directed towards anyone or anything stated so far in this thread)
Love the comment about looking where you are going...WORD

Well gee!! If you saw 2 whole sleds go through thousands of miles of stress tests that's good enough for me. Must not be any problems if 2 whole non production sleds had thousands of miles put on them with no issues. It's crazy to think about the idea that if in years past Polaris had just tested at least 2 whole sleds there would never have been crank issues on the 2004 ish 800s. No 900 issues. No D800 top ends to replace and all they would have had to do was test 2 sleds!! Wow, crazy.
You statisticians that don't understand that a sample size of 2 (n=2) doesn't provide any significant data amaze me. By the same logic if two pair of better boards have problems, they must all be bad... No??
I already bought my Zbroz arms and didn't ask Polaris for a dime. Again, the reason for my post and some others was to share experiences to see if others had experienced the same thing. And obviously there are. I guess none of us was on either of the 2 sleds you mentioned.
"Watch were we are going, word" That pisses me off!
The rock I hit was fully buried. You couldn't even see it after knowing exactly where it was. I made no excuses for hitting it. Just an observation that a minor impact folded an a arm and that's what other people are reporting on this thread too.
How about not continuing to poach other threads to continuously bombard us with adds for your products. Probably not a good idea either to poach, advertise and then bash potential customers by telling them they don't watch where they are going and that they are wrong about what they think they are seeing.

 

[longgold]

Well gee!! If you saw 2 whole sleds go through thousands of miles of stress tests that's good enough for me. Must not be any problems if 2 whole non production sleds had thousands of miles put on them with no issues. It's crazy to think about the idea that if in years past Polaris had just tested at least 2 whole sleds there would never have been crank issues on the 2004 ish 800s. No 900 issues. No D800 top ends to replace and all they would have had to do was test 2 sleds!! Wow, crazy.
You statisticians that don't understand that a sample size of 2 (n=2) doesn't provide any significant data amaze me. By the same logic if two pair of better boards have problems, they must all be bad... No??
I already bought my Zbroz arms and didn't ask Polaris for a dime. Again, the reason for my post and some others was to share experiences to see if others had experienced the same thing. And obviously there are. I guess none of us was on either of the 2 sleds you mentioned.
"Watch were we are going, word" That pisses me off!
The rock I hit was fully buried. You couldn't even see it after knowing exactly where it was. I made no excuses for hitting it. Just an observation that a minor impact folded an a arm and that's what other people are reporting on this thread too.
How about not continuing to poach other threads to continuously bombard us with adds for your products. Probably not a good idea either to poach, advertise and then bash potential customers by telling them they don't watch where they are going and that they are wrong about what they think they are seeing.

I mirror your sentiment and your statments Arcteryx..."watch where we are going?"..pffff...what kinda stupid arsed bull**** statement is that?

The things are weak, they are **** A-arms...........there...I said it

Hey...you want some logic...here's some logic Fboob...I paid POLARIS (not the Canadian Government as someone incorrectly posted on another thread) $2000 more than you, or any US customer, paid for their sled. That is $2000 that I consider THEFT. SO I tell you what...maybe I shouldnt feel so guilty putting my hand out to polaris for an a-arm that bent because I coughed at the same time as my shock compressed.

Funny thing is, mine and the majority of posts I have seen have intimated that they are going to purchase after market parts rather than go through the hassle of bending more OEM arms....and I arent claiming its a warranty issue...just dont want to buy more crap parts

maybe people should just suck it up and accept their "accordingv to you" weak running boards too?

By the way, Im 245lbs, the snow clearance on my stock boards is AWESOME, and with a $70 stock board brace, those things are stronger than ever...

 

[F-Bomb]

Oh I'm sorry you two! I thought readers, owners, and interested observers wouldn't mind another person's EXPERIENCED opinion not unlike your posts on your experiences and personal theories!

Just like you I was interested in the conversation and just like you wanted to ad my experience to the mix. I see that you feel like you are qualified to offer an experience and opinion but mine is somehow less valuable or exceptable to you. Enough so that you write a personal slam me and my work? WOW...hey fyi and just so you know. I thought that comment about watching where you are going was funny (irony wise). I've hit more stuff and smashed more parts then either of you will ever damage in three of your lifetimes combined. I'm always being told to quit hitting stuff. Have you ever heard the reference you are preaching to the choir? Well boys I'm the mormon tabernacle choir on this issue. THAT IS WHY I FOUND THAT COMMENT FUNNY.

Furthermore...Being a huge advocate of aftermarket parts including stronger chromoly arms and suspension parts (remember I break a lot of stuff)! I have nothing but aftermarket arms on all of my sleds. BUT I have not personally experienced enough impacts on this particular snowmobile design to come and this forum and state that sturdier chromoly arms are the answer. What if I recommended that and they somehow had negative effect on the more expensive aspects of the chassis in an accident? Personally I doubt they do and I took the risk myself on my personal equipment. I consider the comments that I make towards ALL LEVELS of consumers from experts to the totally inexperienced. Believe it or not a lot of folks read these threads and make decisions from my comments AND I TAKE TOTAL RESPONSIBILITY FOR THOSE COMMENTS. The difference is that I see FACE TO FACE thousands of you consumers each year. I don't get the anonymity of the internet to hide behind.

carry on..Signed Fboob

 

[Jkinzer]

Well gee!! If you saw 2 whole sleds go through thousands of miles of stress tests that's good enough for me. Must not be any problems if 2 whole non production sleds had thousands of miles put on them with no issues. It's crazy to think about the idea that if in years past Polaris had just tested at least 2 whole sleds there would never have been crank issues on the 2004 ish 800s. No 900 issues. No D800 top ends to replace and all they would have had to do was test 2 sleds!! Wow, crazy.
You statisticians that don't understand that a sample size of 2 (n=2) doesn't provide any significant data amaze me. By the same logic if two pair of better boards have problems, they must all be bad... No??
I already bought my Zbroz arms and didn't ask Polaris for a dime. Again, the reason for my post and some others was to share experiences to see if others had experienced the same thing. And obviously there are. I guess none of us was on either of the 2 sleds you mentioned.
"Watch were we are going, word" That pisses me off!
The rock I hit was fully buried. You couldn't even see it after knowing exactly where it was. I made no excuses for hitting it. Just an observation that a minor impact folded an a arm and that's what other people are reporting on this thread too.
How about not continuing to poach other threads to continuously bombard us with adds for your products. Probably not a good idea either to poach, advertise and then bash potential customers by telling them they don't watch where they are going and that they are wrong about what they think they are seeing.

I mirror your sentiment and your statments Arcteryx..."watch where we are going?"..pffff...what kinda stupid arsed bull**** statement is that?

The things are weak, they are **** A-arms...........there...I said it

Hey...you want some logic...here's some logic Fboob...I paid POLARIS (not the Canadian Government as someone incorrectly posted on another thread) $2000 more than you, or any US customer, paid for their sled. That is $2000 that I consider THEFT. SO I tell you what...maybe I shouldnt feel so guilty putting my hand out to polaris for an a-arm that bent because I coughed at the same time as my shock compressed.

Funny thing is, mine and the majority of posts I have seen have intimated that they are going to purchase after market parts rather than go through the hassle of bending more OEM arms....and I arent claiming its a warranty issue...just dont want to buy more crap parts

maybe people should just suck it up and accept their "accordingv to you" weak running boards too?

By the way, Im 245lbs, the snow clearance on my stock boards is AWESOME, and with a $70 stock board brace, those things are stronger than ever...

calm down boys, people have to pay for memberships now in the hopes of avoiding pissing matches like this. Everybody has their opinion and the right to share it

 

[longgold]

Oh I'm sorry you two! I thought readers, owners, and interested observers wouldn't mind another person's EXPERIENCED opinion not unlike your posts on your experiences and personal theories!

Just like you I was interested in the conversation and just like you wanted to ad my experience to the mix. I see that you feel like you are qualified to offer an experience and opinion but mine is somehow less valuable or exceptable to you. Enough so that you write a personal slam me and my work? WOW...hey fyi and just so you know. I thought that comment about watching where you are going was funny (irony wise). I've hit more stuff and smashed more parts then either of you will ever damage in three of your lifetimes combined. I'm always being told to quit hitting stuff. Have you ever heard the reference you are preaching to the choir? Well boys I'm the mormon tabernacle choir on this issue. THAT IS WHY I FOUND THAT COMMENT FUNNY.

Furthermore...Being a huge advocate of aftermarket parts including stronger chromoly arms and suspension parts (remember I break a lot of stuff)! I have nothing but aftermarket arms on all of my sleds. BUT I have not personally experienced enough impacts on this particular snowmobile design to come and this forum and state that sturdier chromoly arms are the answer. What if I recommended that and they somehow had negative effect on the more expensive aspects of the chassis in an accident? Personally I doubt they do and I took the risk myself on my personal equipment. I consider the comments that I make towards ALL LEVELS of consumers from experts to the totally inexperienced. Believe it or not a lot of folks read these threads and make decisions from my comments AND I TAKE TOTAL RESPONSIBILITY FOR THOSE COMMENTS. The difference is that I see FACE TO FACE thousands of you consumers each year. I don't get the anonymity of the internet to hide behind.

carry on..Signed Fboob

you can spin this around any way you want to...this is certainly not a pissing match. Like I said, and like Arcteryx said, this is a thread for people to discuss the weakness of the stock a-arms. Your response was to imply that we are whining and blaming Polaris, and that maybe we were even comtemplating stealing from Polaris...

Instead of inflaming it...why dont you just apologize for a poorly thought out post and move on.

 

[FrozenMOTO]

Funny, KTM just came out with a hot new bike called the 350sxf. Now I go to the KTM forums on thumpertalk which used to be the best around and everyone on there is bashing KTM for making crappy bikes. I personally have owned two of them and have never received better service on a bike from anyone. The bikes are incredibly strong, light, and durable compared to other brands, I know as I have owned and ridden most others as well.

Yet all of a sudden when KTM comes out with a new bike and gets all these people buying it that FOLLOW the crowd now KTM's are pieces of crap. I like to think that in three months, the amount of time since I had the crank on my 2010 450sxf replaced on warranty(didn't fail they just though it might, only ten bike had the problem in the entire USA) that they are still treating customers right.

Basically were I was going with this is that when you get a bunch of crowd followers comes alot of complaining. Every brand has lemons and don't hit the mark every time.
Now with that being said I don't have much experience with Polaris as a company and only sled I ever bought was a Polaris and it stood up to all of my abuse and trust me thats alot.

I do agree there must be a problem with the a-arm, I have heard of LOADS of people bending them and ways they claim shouldn't. But to bash the company is crap to, you need to at least give them a chance.

With that being said if they fix them next year I may snowcheck a new assault. I agree with how much the cost MOST of use cant throw 150+ at the sled every weekend.


Disclaimer: This is not directly toward the people of this thread as you guys seem to have a level head but many others do not.

 

[IceCap]

Just wondering who is backordered on these? Also has anyone got one lately?

Mine was suppose to be in this week....... but now thw backorder is pushed to the 17th of December.

Glad mine isn't that bad that I can't ride.

I have the #2204422-458 on order which is the lower left side when you are sitting on the sled.

 

[rockinmranch]

So is there anything significantly difference from past few years in the design of the a-arm that makes them weaker? I understood them to be the same geometry and part number as last year. Earlier in this post it sound like there may be a difference, is it the problem? Being in the rental business I laugh at the daily excuses I hear. "Dude,the sled was only going like 5 miles an hour when it hit the tree, I can't believe it did that much damge" or "I didn't think that stump did anything". It is physics, something has to take the shock. I have always run Polaris but last year was the first year that I ran some Ski-Doo's also. 75% of the time a Ski-Doo will take an impact better than a Polaris because the a-arms are stronger(to strong). The other 25% bent s-module/bulk head. It's the pink elephant that Ski-Doo riders don't tell you about until you later figure it out yourself. This is no minor problem. Often you can hit a tree one one side and it will push one side back and the other side forward. A veteran ski-doo rider told me if you hit a tree on the other side it would fix it, he wasn't kidding. Point is, in all the Polaris rentals I have had returned wrecked, never has the shock bent the bulk head(knock on wood). Yes, the Polaris a-arms may be engineered a bit weaker, but it serves a purpose. Replacing a few a-arms beats the alternative that ski-doo is offering.

 

[FrozenMOTO]

You bring up a good point. But I think they need to beef up both. The way I ride my toys they get abused and then I work on them for the next outing. But 150 an arm would have me broke in a month. I could see there system being a good thing if they were only 50 bucks on arm but for the cost it just seems like in now time you would have a few grand in a-arms. Maybe they should offer a free two year a-arm no questions asked warranty on snocheck models. That would be cool.


I see what they are doing but does it not make more since to make something that would shear a bolt or something in a large impact rather than bend an arm. Then you could just pack extra bolts and a wrench and replace the bolt if you sheared it.