Another Shooting & the Politics of it

Jean-Luc Picard · Feb 16, 2018

So... 17 more innocents dead because someone was off their rocker.

I don't know that I have a perfect answer to it, but I wanted to point out a few things I've discussed with various people that should really be a part of the nations discussion.

A gun is a tool.
- Tools can be used correctly or incorrectly.
- Some tools we require special licenses to use - Why? (this is perhaps another discussion)
  - Cars
  - Dentists Drills
  - X-ray Machines
  - Tractor Trailers
  - Why not require a license for the purchase of a gun?
    - Ok, so I'm not entirely for the government having all access over who has guns either, but I also don't want some teenager able to go drive a tractor trailer 'cuz he wants to.
- Responsible & Trained Adults should have & make use of this tool.
  - If more responsible people were carrying, I think violent crime would go down.
Some people are not mentally stable
- What do we do with them?
  - Asylums? Yeah, that's humane.
  - Medicate?
  - Restrict?
  - Monitor?
  - Confine?
- How do we identify them?
  - Whose responsibility would this be?
  - Who is checking on those who are checking?
  - Do we want a society of "Us" and "Them?" (ok - so Star Trek talking here - Check out the episode of DS9 "Past Tense" we may be headed there)
- Did we create their mental instability to begin with?
  - Soldiers
  - Public School
  - Poverty
  - Lack of access to health care
These mass shootings happen where there are large groups of people
- How do we provide security without becoming a police state?
- Do we reduce opportunities?
Mass Shootings also happen in Schools
- WHY DO WE NOT ARM TEACHERS?
  - Why is so much of the Left so afraid of a tool?
    - HOW MANY TV "HEROES" 'DON'T LIKE GUNS' (Dr. Who, Niel Caffrey, I'm sure there are more).
- Why do we not hire the out of work returning vets to patrol schools?
  - Ok, so this could possibly make school ever so slightly more like prison & reinforce the police state idea, but it could help with the mental state of some vets & employment status.
- WHY on earth do we send our kids into an artificial and unsafe environment for the formative years of their lives?
  - Full Disclosure - My wife & I homeschool.
    - But WHAT ABOUT THEIR SOCIAL LIFE?
      - Simple. We aren't Socialists.
  - Bullying. Why do we accept this as a part of life you've just got to deal with?
  - How many of our kids opinions are being formed by the state?
    - And why are you OK with this?
Bad & disturbed people will use whatever they can get.
- Fertilizer & Ammonia
- Moving Trucks
- Knives

I realize much of this is already in the public discourse, but too often it comes down to "take away the guns," "make Gun-free zones." Yeah. That works out real well.

I realize I may be preaching to the choir on some of this too, but I'm curious to hear feedback & other peoples ideas. From all sides.

So... Let her rip.

Mafesto · Feb 16, 2018

Excellent post.

Saundet · Feb 16, 2018

Liberal logic.

DUI —-> blame the driver.
Bombing —-> blame the bomber.
Shooting —-> blame the gun?

jerrydecoy · Feb 16, 2018

I’m not sure what all or maybe even any of the answers are but I don’t think more gun control solves this issue. My sons high school has a armed city police officer in the school all day. Some may disagree but it Makes me feel better knowing he’s there. I would support more then one gun inside his school being carried by trained adults. Maybe it doesn’t stop a shooting but minimizes victims? I think access into the schools is also gonna have to be tightened. My sons old middle school had all the doors locked during the day and you had to stand in front of a camera and talk to the office before they allowed entry at the main door.

Jean-Luc Picard · Feb 16, 2018

jerrydecoy said:
I’m not sure what all or maybe even any of the answers are but I don’t think more gun control solves this issue. My sons high school has a armed city police officer in the school all day. Some may disagree but it Makes me feel better knowing he’s there. I would support more then one gun inside his school being carried by trained adults. Maybe it doesn’t stop a shooting but minimizes victims? I think access into the schools is also gonna have to be tightened. My sons old middle school had all the doors locked during the day and you had to stand in front of a camera and talk to the office before they allowed entry at the main door.

I personally think it would stop a shooting, or at least deter several (not to mention get the bullets flying in the right direction). Why do they pick the targets they do? Because they're safe. Low risk. If you know a place has a trillion security cameras, that's not the place you're going to rob.

05900 · Feb 16, 2018

The FBI has said it did not properly follow up on a warning that Florida school shooting suspect Nikolas Cruz might carry out an attack.
Last month, a person close to the 19-year-old contacted the law enforcement agency to warn of "the potential of him conducting a school shooting".
But protocols were not followed and the tipline did not pass along the complaint, the FBI said.
It was not the first potential warning to the FBI regarding Mr Cruz.

Glad these assclowns are on it !!!
Can't wait to see the abba ....abba..abbbut guns are bad mmmkay!! bullshyt
that will follow. What will the FBI say next??

bholmlate · Feb 16, 2018

I blame obama

89sandman · Feb 16, 2018

Is it worth your son's or daughter's life so you can own a AR-15? I think your opinion would be quite different if one of your children were killed. I in no way think that all guns should ever be made illegal but guns such as the AR-15 that cause these incidents to have such high casualty rates need to go.

James T Kirk · Feb 16, 2018

89sandman said:
Is it worth your son's or daughter's life so you can own a AR-15? I think your opinion would be quite different if one of your children were killed. I in no way think that all guns should ever be made illegal but guns such as the AR-15 that cause these incidents to have such high casualty rates need to go.

I definitely agree with ya, but being able to legally purchase an AR-15 with 30 round mags and a bump stock is a bigger issue. If people have to own one to make em feel good about their lack of manliness then at least limit it to a 3-5 round clip or restrict them to range use only or something. I know a guy who owns one in Canada, it’s legal but quite restricted-I’m not sure of the exact details but he sure as he!! Can’t take it into the local Wendy’s. Seems kinda sensible to me...

I was on a dirt bike trip in Utah about 10 years ago, a friend of a friend showed up with an AR-50 (yea, 50) that he had just purchased with 50 rounds for $2k at a gun shop on the western slope of Colorado. It was awesome getting to shoot a few 700 grain(if I remember correctly, the shell casings were huge) .50 cal bullets that could remove the top half of a man at 2000m, and the desert west of Moab was a good place to try it out, but I have always reflected how ridiculous it was that some dude with a pile of cash that was probably a couple beers into it could walk into a store and buy that.

The USA has 89 firearms per every 100 people. Next closest is Yemen with 55 per 100. The USA has no affordable mental health care that can be easily accessed. The USA also seems to have a waaaaay higher proportion of these incidents than just about anywhere. Coincidence??

For the record, I own a really nice 20ga over/under that I still use to shoot clays occasionally as I don’t really hunt birds anymore and a bolt action 30-06 that has put a lot of meat in my freezer and will continue to do so. I consider them to be sensible firearms with a practical use, contrary to an ar-15 (or 50).

jerrydecoy · Feb 16, 2018

Ban the AR-15 and these shootings still happen! Not the problem! Bump stocks are easily built at home for any semi-auto! I don’t own an AR but I have quite a few clients who do and manliness has nothing to do with the guys i know who have one. They love to shoot and it’s a hobby they’re passionate about. They aren’t the people I worry about. Ban all the guns you want and I guarantee the people who want them to cause harm will find a way to get their hands on one!!!

wrtmani · Feb 16, 2018

When I turned 21 in 1994, I purchased a new pistol, a S&W model 410, .40 S&W caliber, ten shot magazine. This paticular model was originally the 411 with a 11 shot magazine, but became the 410 when Bill Clinton passed his "It's a Crime, Bill" of 1994 which among other things restricted pistol magazines to ten rounds for all new guns manufactured in the US after it was enacted. Yet here we are today with Glocks, S&W's and others with 15+ round magazines...

This same bill then also banned magazines for my Ruger 10/22 .22 rimfire over 10 rounds as well...Companies got around this by making devices that held 3- 10-rnd magazines in a triangle pattern...

As long as there are restrictions there is always going to be somebody finding a way around them (bumpstocks, multiple magazine holders, etc.) I'm not saying no restrictions whatsover, but until this country decides what is important (immigration/border security, crime prevention, infrastructure repair for example) and instead of the usual "kick the can down the road" and let somebody else figure it out later mentality changes we will see little no improvement in this situation.

Pro-8250 · Feb 16, 2018

Time and time again I see and hear people bringing up the second amendment and not having a clue of why or how it came about or what it really means. Here's a clue. Read the first four F***ing words.

A Well Regulated.
To control or maintain.

Militia.
A military force that is raised from the civil population to supplement a regular army in an emergency.

In 1773 the continental congress would budget for a two year military money. Their biggest concern was of a foreign invasion mainly by France and they wanted the citizens to be armed in case they couldn't fund the army. Fast forward to 1801 when negotiations started and were completed in 1803 of the Louisiana Purchase. Gee, who owned the Louisiana territory at the time?

This is what I remember from my eighth grade history class.

L.Hughes · Feb 16, 2018

89sandman said:
Is it worth your son's or daughter's life so you can own a AR-15? I think your opinion would be quite different if one of your children were killed. I in no way think that all guns should ever be made illegal but guns such as the AR-15 that cause these incidents to have such high casualty rates need to go.

Curious about what these “high” casualty rates are that you speak of compared to handguns, hands, knives, motor vehicles, drugs...

James T Kirk · Feb 16, 2018

L.Hughes said:
Curious about what these casualty rates are that you speak of compared to handguns, hands, knives, motor vehicles, drugs...

It’s really simple bud-if that guy in Florida had my old bolt action 30-06 he would likely have gotten off 2-3 shots before that same football coach that took a bunch of bullets beat the sh!t out of him and ended it. With a weapon like the one he had he likely got off 20x that many, and uninterrupted too so no opportunity to take him down.

You can compare it to vehicles, drugs, whatever. The cold hard facts are that the USA has a hugely disproportionate number of these shootings and a hugely disproportionate number of guns and a hugely disproportionate lack of access to mental health care for its people. Why else does this keep happening?

Tighter gun laws might be the answer, might not. Seems to work for the rest of the world. Bottom line is might as well try something different cause the current situation is fu(ked...

By the way, I know plenty of very passionate gun enthusiasts up here in Canada, not a single one of them complains about any of the gun laws. Most respect firearms and think you guys are nuts.

Mafesto · Feb 17, 2018

James T Kirk said:
By the way, I know plenty of very passionate gun enthusiasts up here in Canada, not a single one of them complains about any of the gun laws. Most respect firearms and think you guys are nuts.

Easy to talk like that knowing that your big buddy to the south will cover your butt if you get into something that you can't handle.

Mafesto · Feb 17, 2018

17 dead, many more injured.
Finger pointing solves nothing, yet started immediately, before the blood cooled.
NRA first, then the FBI.

Some of you ain't gonna like what I'm gonna say here.
I hope those that teased, harassed and bullied this kid realize that they played a part in these murders as well.
Who knows what the outcome would have been if one special young person would have shown kindness when this kid needed it?
Kids can be brutally unmerciful. I know, I was one.
I took part in teasing and bullying, and it's one of the largest mistakes and regret I have from my youth.
I wish someone would have set me straight back then. I would love to look back at those times with pride instead of shame.
Looking back, the teachers knew what was going on, they talked to us as a whole class about it which did no good. They should have talked to us one on one and shamed the hell out of each and every one of us.

Why is this not talked about in the news? Because it doesn't advance anybodys political agenda.
We all knew certain democrats were giddy with glee when the news of this shooting broke, knowing that was a golden opportunity to push the antigun agenda.
Sick bastards.

L.Hughes · Feb 17, 2018

James T Kirk said:
It’s really simple bud-if that guy in Florida had my old bolt action 30-06 he would likely have gotten off 2-3 shots before that same football coach that took a bunch of bullets beat the sh!t out of him and ended it. With a weapon like the one he had he likely got off 20x that many, and uninterrupted too so no opportunity to take him down.

You can compare it to vehicles, drugs, whatever. The cold hard facts are that the USA has a hugely disproportionate number of these shootings and a hugely disproportionate number of guns and a hugely disproportionate lack of access to mental health care for its people. Why else does this keep happening?

Tighter gun laws might be the answer, might not. Seems to work for the rest of the world. Bottom line is might as well try something different cause the current situation is fu(ked...

By the way, I know plenty of very passionate gun enthusiasts up here in Canada, not a single one of them complains about any of the gun laws. Most respect firearms and think you guys are nuts.

You missed my point. Facts are: rifles, including the scary black ones, are not the leading cause of firearm casualties in the US. Yes, they play a part but if you really cared about people being murdered by firearms then you’d be heading a different direction.

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2016/crime-in-the-u.s.-2016/tables/table-12

jerrydecoy · Feb 17, 2018

James T Kirk said:
It’s really simple bud-if that guy in Florida had my old bolt action 30-06 he would likely have gotten off 2-3 shots before that same football coach that took a bunch of bullets beat the sh!t out of him and ended it. With a weapon like the one he had he likely got off 20x that many, and uninterrupted too so no opportunity to take him down.

You can compare it to vehicles, drugs, whatever. The cold hard facts are that the USA has a hugely disproportionate number of these shootings and a hugely disproportionate number of guns and a hugely disproportionate lack of access to mental health care for its people. Why else does this keep happening?

Tighter gun laws might be the answer, might not. Seems to work for the rest of the world. Bottom line is might as well try something different cause the current situation is fu(ked...

By the way, I know plenty of very passionate gun enthusiasts up here in Canada, not a single one of them complains about any of the gun laws. Most respect firearms and think you guys are nuts.

So you’re saying stop producing and go around and collect all semi autos??? That kid didn’t need an AR to do that kind of damage! Is it really the gun that’s the problem. I’ve got 25+ at home in a safe an a loaded pistol in a drawer next to my bed(no trigger lock cuz I’m gonna use it if I need to). Those guns have never hurt anybody! I don’t give a damn what you have in Canada for gun laws...I don’t live there and if chit ever hits the fan on a global scale I bet you’ll take advantage of your dual citizenship! You take away guns from the average citizen and I’ll bet every cent I have that the criminals will find a way to get one. Maybe the right questions aren’t being asked? This is a mental health issue and yes it does need addressed but don’t tell me that people will stop mass killings if guns weren’t available! Crazy is crazy and fewer guns won’t solve that!!!

James T Kirk · Feb 17, 2018

jerrydecoy said:
So you’re saying stop producing and go around and collect all semi autos??? That kid didn’t need an AR to do that kind of damage! Is it really the gun that’s the problem. I’ve got 25+ at home in a safe an a loaded pistol in a drawer next to my bed(no trigger lock cuz I’m gonna use it if I need to). Those guns have never hurt anybody! I don’t give a damn what you have in Canada for gun laws...I don’t live there and if chit ever hits the fan on a global scale I bet you’ll take advantage of your dual citizenship! You take away guns from the average citizen and I’ll bet every cent I have that the criminals will find a way to get one. Maybe the right questions aren’t being asked? This is a mental health issue and yes it does need addressed but don’t tell me that people will stop mass killings if guns weren’t available! Crazy is crazy and fewer guns won’t solve that!!!

What was the result of Australia’s action in the late 90s with regards to murder and suicide rates? Look it up, drastic but effective. Like I said, would it be effective there? I’m not sure, but being able to buy an AR-50 half drunk in a gun shop is stupid...

What will solve it then? Surely leaving things just as they are, what, 7-8 school shootings already this year with 17 dead in the last one is just fine?? Why doesn’t this happen in other countries?? Maybe they should just kill the crazies along with the poor?

James T Kirk · Feb 17, 2018

jerrydecoy said:
So you’re saying stop producing and go around and collect all semi autos??? That kid didn’t need an AR to do that kind of damage! Is it really the gun that’s the problem. I’ve got 25+ at home in a safe an a loaded pistol in a drawer next to my bed(no trigger lock cuz I’m gonna use it if I need to). Those guns have never hurt anybody! I don’t give a damn what you have in Canada for gun laws...I don’t live there and if chit ever hits the fan on a global scale I bet you’ll take advantage of your dual citizenship! You take away guns from the average citizen and I’ll bet every cent I have that the criminals will find a way to get one. Maybe the right questions aren’t being asked? This is a mental health issue and yes it does need addressed but don’t tell me that people will stop mass killings if guns weren’t available! Crazy is crazy and fewer guns won’t solve that!!!

You have said you have school age kids and you have a loaded pistol in the drawer with no trigger lock? Supergenius.

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