$10,000 sleds and up

[xrated]

Just reading old posts, and it seems when it comes to safety gear like the ABS people don;t like the grand price tag(yeah I don't like it either, but I will save for one) and then people jump on the guy who says that 1 grand is alot of cash to get and spend. Instantly the "cheap skate" is being flamed and bashed for being stingy and spending 10 grand on their sled but crying over a grand to save a life.

My question is am I the only guy who is riding a 2 grand sled that is paid for and all mods being done are on a cash and then parts baisis?(that's why I have a old 99 Poo sitting around with no skid and track, but have a new skid) Well besides Scott with his Bought not Built Gen II.

 

[Snorider]

Just reading old posts, and it seems when it comes to safety gear like the ABS people don;t like the grand price tag(yeah I don't like it either, but I will save for one) and then people jump on the guy who says that 1 grand is alot of cash to get and spend. Instantly the "cheap skate" is being flamed and bashed for being stingy and spending 10 grand on their sled but crying over a grand to save a life.

My question is am I the only guy who is riding a 2 grand sled that is paid for and all mods being done are on a cash and then parts baisis?(that's why I have a old 99 Poo sitting around with no skid and track, but have a new skid) Well besides Scott with his Bought not Built Gen II.

I'm in the same boat, but i will put saftey equipment before my mods to my sled. thats an easy one.

 

[OuraySledder]

I sure didn't intend to flame anybody. I do think that if you have 10k to drop on a new sled, you would have to be a fool not to pony up for the airbag IF you ride avy terrain regularly.

I got lucky and bought my ABS bag a few years back when I had the money. Subsequent divorce, and the sale of freaking everything (including a couple 800 rmks) has me riding borrowed sleds this year so I FEEL YOUR PAIN when it comes to the cost of sleds, fuel and accessories.

 

[winter brew]

There are a couple ways to look at this I suppose. I have had older (less expensive) sleds and it seems they are always costing money to keep reliable. Something always wearing out or breaking and in my case the brand new sled costs LESS money. If something breaks it's under warranty, when things get some miles on them, sell it and get another new sled. I can honestly say that my repair bills were higher than any sled payment. I do own my sled, but for those that don't sometimes a pmnt is the cheapest route to go, leaving more $$ for the equipment we should ALL be carrying on the hill.

 

[Snorider]

i take maintance very seriously, and really haven'y had the huge parts bill on my sled to keep it trustworthy. And my parts bill this year is cheaper than a year of paymetns. I refuse to be in debt(more than I have to be able to farm) so payments are not an option. When I buy a new sled it's cash. I've seen too many people get one too many more payments than they need. Thats how come i'm glad to see a lot of people with more money than me.

 

[ARCTIC DUCK]

hey x, to answer your question, let me remind u that in flatland minnesota u dont need a 10k sled to rip up those things u call hills.lol

i dont listen to anyone when they start biotchin about cost, if you cant afford it, stay the hell home and let the rest of us enjoy the day. if you dont have a beacon, probe and shovel, im not riding w/ you. period.

i know alot of my friends think the same way. if you cant afford the gear then u certainly shouldnt be able to afford the sled. my .02

 

[xrated]

hey x, to answer your question, let me remind u that in flatland minnesota u dont need a 10k sled to rip up those things u call hills.lol

i dont listen to anyone when they start biotchin about cost, if you cant afford it, stay the hell home and let the rest of us enjoy the day. if you dont have a beacon, probe and shovel, im not riding w/ you. period.

i know alot of my friends think the same way. if you cant afford the gear then u certainly shouldnt be able to afford the sled. my .02

damnit duck we do have hills, they are just short! I agree 100 percent on the basic needed items like beacons, probes and shovels. I view the ABs as really great but not a required item like the others. Just like in water skiing, I don't have a nice ski boat, hell it's an outboard. I know I can't afford the best boats, but I make sure I have a good life jacket because it is required equipment. I may not have the top of the line bindings to save my ankles, but I have what I need to keep me floating if something happens.

I just really wanted to see if there are others who don't drive 10 grand sleds. As for costs, the sled is about the only thing a guy can control, gotta pay that going rate for gas and stickers...it's just the price ya pay to play.

 

[Snoman69]

I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, but......


I agree with some of what is said..... I think it should be mandatory to have a beacon, probe, and shovel.... PERIOD!!!!! I have a spare, just incase someone doesn't have one....

I don't agree with people getting flammed because they don't have an ABS pack...... Are they valuable, YES.... Can I justify spending a grand on one, nope, not yet..... Do I spend that on my sled, sure I have....

I am not completely sold on them yet.... Due to my mod, i lost alot of storage on the sled... I had to upgrade my pac to fit everything it... The ABS packs just don't have the storage.... I have an Ogio Three 6 and this thing is freakin packed to the brim...

Will I get an ABS, I'm sure I will..... It's very easy for people to slam others when they have unlimited cash flow. Not everyone is on the same boat.... I have friends that are lucky to be riding at all..... Does that mean they don't value their life, because they can't afford the latest and greatest... NOT IMHO.... You work with what you have...

My $.02

 

[x-guy]

shovel, beacon, probe should be manditory equipment for riding mountains, its not just for saving your life, but for others as well. An ABS bag is only involving yourself, you want to risk it, its your choice. Personally I would rather spend the money on education and courses to avoid the terrain altogether than spend the grand on an ABS bag that may give you that false sense of security and climb that hill that you otherwise would not have, I think the safety equipment that is manditory to you, depends very much on your riding stye, and how much at risk you are. Don't get me wrong, I think ABS bags are awesome, and can save lives, but if you only had a limited cash flow, I don't think its manditory.

 

[Bull]

beacon, probe, shovel. no question. won't ride with anyone that doesn't have one. ABS..no i don't. actually won't. guys i know with them tend to be more willing to "take a chance". just my experience. THE best backcountry skier i know, has NEVER SEEN an avy......he has won world extreme skiing titles....that says something to me. like many things....education, common sense, and good judgement is your best defense. most skiers i know will dig a pit, check avy reports, etc..... most riders don't. when in doubt, avoid the area. simple but safe strategy.

 

[XC700116]

I'm in agreement with Vert on this one. I can't justify the ABS pack for something that might happen if I get in a bad spot. I carry a beacon, shovel and probe and won't climb with people that don't. I look at it like vehicle airbags. When airbags came out in vehicles did everyone rush out and by an airbag equipped vehicle or chastise everyone that didn't? NO so what's the difference? It's a choice for personal protection only much like a Tek Vest is only a lot more expensive. Heck even the Avy Guy Mike Duffy only ordered one this year as he explained in the class I took from him.

 

[Snorider]

Avy classes are a must in my opinion. And why don't more riders dig pits? when you know how the snow is layered it makes me a lot more comfortable.

I first started taking avy classes cause my skiing was taking me in to very high prone areas. It carried over great into my sledding. one thing people don't get is that when one cuts loose it's udder choas. having a plan and going through drills helps more than enough to get refresher courses and practice drills. considering when your betting a life on it.

 

[OuraySledder]

I am glad you guys put so much faith in a shovel/probe/beacon set up. I have to chuckle when someone posts that they bring an extra in case somebody doesn't have the gear. If they don't own the beacon, how much good is it going to do if you get buried? Are they going to magically learn how to search while you are suffocating? How about the guys who travel from the midwest a couple of times a year, no offense meant guys but I was from MN years ago and I didn't know 1/10 of what I know today about avy danger and terrain. Glad you guys think a beacon and shovel is going to suffice here. Sure seems like there are a lot of inexperienced guys that die out west beacon or not.

Sure they are expensive but not getting buried is by far your best bet. The bags are proven to do this. Saying guys take more chances with a bag is as rediculous as saying guys with a beacon take more chances than those without. If either is the case, don't ride with those guys because they are stupid and going to get killed.

Everybody acts like this is a brand new, yet to be proven piece of gear. It has a very good history in Europe, proven effective. You guys don't wear your seatbelt in the truck either I suppose.

I guess it is like the old helmet addage, if your head is worth five dollars, buy a five dollar helmet. I know for sure my life is worth far more than the cost of a friggen backpack. I honestly don't understand any of the justification that goes on regarding these packs. I ride with mine because I consider it standard equipment for operating in avy terrain. It is just so far beyond the beacon/shovel/probe safety gear, so far beyond I can't imagine not having mine.

 

[ericbigbore]

I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, but......


I agree with some of what is said..... I think it should be mandatory to have a beacon, probe, and shovel.... PERIOD!!!!! I have a spare, just incase someone doesn't have one....

I don't agree with people getting flammed because they don't have an ABS pack...... Are they valuable, YES.... Can I justify spending a grand on one, nope, not yet..... Do I spend that on my sled, sure I have....

I am not completely sold on them yet.... Due to my mod, i lost alot of storage on the sled... I had to upgrade my pac to fit everything it... The ABS packs just don't have the storage.... I have an Ogio Three 6 and this thing is freakin packed to the brim...


Will I get an ABS, I'm sure I will..... It's very easy for people to slam others when they have unlimited cash flow. Not everyone is on the same boat.... I have friends that are lucky to be riding at all..... Does that mean they don't value their life, because they can't afford the latest and greatest... NOT IMHO.... You work with what you have...

My $.02

Good post vert edge and I will take it a bit further. When we ride we go DEEP in to the backcountry, I mean DEEP! The ABS does not have the required capacity for enough survival gear for extended over night needs. A beacon, probe and shovel are as required as gas and oil or your not riding with me in the backcountry.

The ABS is a good product and I'm sure I will own one some day when they are a little better thought out and a little less money. I think this product can give some people somewhat of a false sense of security and the best way to stay safe in the backcountry is to get educated and stay informed of conditions through your local avey site and use your head and stay out when its bad. What happens when you and your buddys get swallowed up and you lose everything, sleds and buddys and you have an ABS that saves you but now you have to spend the night or two with limmited gear.

I often wonder how many idiots never practice with their beacons or dig pits and check layers. I bet most just strap their beacon and/or ABS on and think they are safe now. I'm not bashing but taking a $2000 sled into the backcountry is a lot more risky than not wearing an ABS were we ride. What if you and your buddys cheap sleds break down and you are in an overnight situation with limmited gear.

Thats just my opinion, I always think worst case. Eric

 

[Bull]

i disagree that a pack is so far beyond a beacon/probe/shovel.......i don't disagree it is a great safety device, but so far beyond??? what the f are you going to do with your pack if someone IS buried? the beacon/shovel/probe is THE most important tool. ABS is a great addition, but the b/p/s is the must have. my point is that good judgement, and education will do FAR more in keeping you from dying in an avy that ABS will. watch "a dozen more turns"....even with ABS, chances are the fatality and the loss of limb would have still happened......the ABS doesn't have any effect on getting "strained" through trees. MAKE NO MISTAKE.......i believe the ABS is a GREAT tool. but i have seen an increased air of "safety" from guys that have spend the coin to get an ABS. for me, i choose to avoid. it isn't the cost of the ABS. i believe strongly in having the best safety margin i can. you read posts on here all the time in which guys talk about an slide they set off......just a little one, etc..... there is WAY to much ignorance and arrogance. the best way to never die in one, is never being in one. it is probably the most avoidable way sledders are dying. i am happy to be thought of as a girly-man. there have been more than a few times i have refused to follow the group, or sat way off to the side of a big hill as those i was with wore it out. we all have choices.

 

[XC700116]

How about the guys who travel from the midwest a couple of times a year, no offense meant guys but I was from MN years ago and I didn't know 1/10 of what I know today about avy danger and terrain. Glad you guys think a beacon and shovel is going to suffice here. Sure seems like there are a lot of inexperienced guys that die out west beacon or not.

Now I'm not trying to start a fight here but, I'm one of those guys from MN and ride with 7 more every year. We practice with our beacons every year before we go, check the avy report every morning (thanks to my blackberry, works great) and have all attended avy courses and know what to look out for. Over half of us are first aid and CPR qualified too. I'm not saying that more time and exposure won't help but where do you draw the line. I also think that the availibility of the information, classes and products are a big help for us. That being said with limited time and exposure to avy terain I draw the line just short of the ABS pack, and knowing myself as well as I do I think that I might be one of the ones lulled into the flase sense of security and push on to things that I probably shouldn't be on in the fun of the day.

On the other hand I worked with a guy from back home that goes every year too, their group doesn't wear beacons and haven't been to classes which is why I turned down the invitation to go with them.

 

[Weekday Warrior]

I agree with Verticaledge, Ericbigbore and like minded people not sold on the avy bags 100% even though most would still like to have it. I plan to get one but it'll be ahwile.

I also agree with OuraySledder -

If they don't own the beacon, how much good is it going to do if you get buried? Are they going to magically learn how to search while you are suffocating?

Ya, I think that pretty much says it all right there.


Give them a spare, educate them, and don't be azzes about it.

imo

 

[Weekday Warrior]

i disagree that a pack is so far beyond a beacon/probe/shovel.......i don't disagree it is a great safety device, but so far beyond??? what the f are you going to do with your pack if someone IS buried? the beacon/shovel/probe is THE most important tool. ABS is a great addition, but the b/p/s is the must have. my point is that good judgement, and education will do FAR more in keeping you from dying in an avy that ABS will. watch If they don't own the beacon, how much good is it going to do if you get buried? Are they going to magically learn how to search while you are suffocating? even with ABS, chances are the fatality and the loss of limb would have still happened......the ABS doesn't have any effect on getting "strained" through trees. MAKE NO MISTAKE.......i believe the ABS is a GREAT tool. but i have seen an increased air of "safety" from guys that have spend the coin to get an ABS. for me, i choose to avoid. it isn't the cost of the ABS. i believe strongly in having the best safety margin i can. you read posts on here all the time in which guys talk about an slide they set off......just a little one, etc..... there is WAY to much ignorance and arrogance. the best way to never die in one, is never being in one. it is probably the most avoidable way sledders are dying. i am happy to be thought of as a girly-man. there have been more than a few times i have refused to follow the group, or sat way off to the side of a big hill as those i was with wore it out. we all have choices.

love the "strained thru the trees" comment. Your post pretty much sums up my opinion.
everyone should watch that vid, "one more turn", one more time.

 

[RideGuy]

If we are following the rules....

One guy on a hill and stay away from the runout zone.....

A group should be able to share a pack..... I let my friends know that they can use my pack for any Pull any Time!!!!

J.

 

[Bull]

this is a great discussion. i'm not disagreeing with ouray about an ABS being a good thing. without any doubt, great item. just think that with the wrong attitude, it is not helpful......just like a guy buying/lending a beacon but having not a clue about using one. .........
on a lighter note......what about guys that spend 10 grand on a sled, and not 180 on a cover. you see then trailering down the road, new sled coated in 2 inches of brown schmeg. how the F do you ride when you get to your destination?? ha.