Your Dynojet Questions are Answered!

DynojetResearch · Sep 19, 2012

the_hog,

This App project has come to a halt until our high priority projects are completed. While the App is perfectly ready, the method to equip existing or new PCV's with a Bluetooth chip has not been nailed down yet. It may be some time before that comes to fruition.
As I should clarify what the_hog is asking about:
For those that attended the EXPO in West Yellowstone, I was able to display a Smartphone with an Android App to function the same way as the LCD screen does. It will enable map loading, data logging, real time gauges and provide a user with a wireless tuning aid communicating all through Bluetooth.

aebsledder,
Thank you for your comment. I hope to spend more time on the snow with you and other Snowest-ers that I have come across. Perhaps, I can even teach you again in another Avalanche Safety Class this year!!

~T.J.

jeepin270 · Sep 21, 2012

Tj, is there any plans for the cfi-4's? If so, when.

graham_r · Sep 21, 2012

Any Plans to make the program compatible with macs

DynojetResearch · Sep 24, 2012

jeepin270,
The CFI-4's have gotten the same dual PTI treatment that all the other 2 stroke Power Commanders have received. These are ready to purchase on the shelves now and will fuel your boosted CFI-4 Polaris engine superbly. Progressing any further with ignition control or sled specific products is not yet on our to-do list.

Top_Secret,
There is no plan to make the PCV Control Center work on the Mac operating system. I have not tried it myself as we have no Mac's on hand, but emulator software might be a good place to start.

Stocker · Sep 24, 2012

DynojetResearch said:
the_hog,

This App project has come to a halt until our high priority projects are completed. While the App is perfectly ready, the method to equip existing or new PCV's with a Bluetooth chip has not been nailed down yet. It may be some time before that comes to fruition.
As I should clarify what the_hog is asking about:
For those that attended the EXPO in West Yellowstone, I was able to display a Smartphone with an Android App to function the same way as the LCD screen does. It will enable map loading, data logging, real time gauges and provide a user with a wireless tuning aid communicating all through Bluetooth.

~T.J.

Can the Droid app be run by USB cable through the standard PCV connector? Bluetooth would be sweet once you get a chip adapted, but IMO the incredible benefits of using a smartphone for tuning in the field cannot wait even if its through a corded connection. Sorry for being a little impatient, but I've been hoping for a PCV smartphone app for years...

I'd also like to add my thanks for coming on the forums to provide support, very well played.

Jeva · Sep 24, 2012

Stocker said:
Can the Droid app be run by USB cable through the standard PCV connector? Bluetooth would be sweet once you get a chip adapted, but IMO the incredible benefits of using a smartphone for tuning in the field cannot wait even if its through a corded connection. Sorry for being a little impatient, but I've been hoping for a PCV smartphone app for years...

I'd also like to add my thanks for coming on the forums to provide support, very well played.

I agree, I would be ok with using a cable.

DynojetResearch · Sep 25, 2012

Stocker said:
Can the Droid app be run by USB cable through the standard PCV connector? Bluetooth would be sweet once you get a chip adapted, but IMO the incredible benefits of using a smartphone for tuning in the field cannot wait even if its through a corded connection. Sorry for being a little impatient, but I've been hoping for a PCV smartphone app for years...

I'd also like to add my thanks for coming on the forums to provide support, very well played.

Stocker,
The App cannot be run via a standard USB cable. It receives/sends packets of information only in one specified method.
I had no idea the amount of interest that a SmartPhone App could draw! It would be a great feature to have access to, especially for us sledheads who like to tinker and tune in the field.
I can check on the overall timeframe of projects within our Engineering department to see when the App could be pushed along.

Thanks you to everyone for all of your great comments!

frock · Sep 25, 2012

Sent you a PM, TJ.

DynojetResearch · Sep 26, 2012

Thank you frock -
Message Received and Replied!!

ZeeeR9 · Nov 22, 2012

T.J. great post about your product. Things seam to have gone quiet on this so I have a few questions. I just recently purchased a 2010 CFR 1000 and plan to add a PCV with Autotune on it along with a ypipe and can, no pipe.
I read alot about manufacturers and suppliers providing maps if you buy from them but I have purchased the items on here and other sites to save money.
Q1- Does Dynojet have base maps for my application that I could start with?

Q-2 Can you give a good explaination of how the autotune works with the PCV and the best approach to using it.

Q-3 Were do you recommend mounting the sensor in the exhuast for the best results. IE. towards the Y pipe or towards the muffler end of the pipe.

I am excited to use your products and will probably pick your brain more as the winter progresses.

Thanks in advance.

DynojetResearch · Nov 26, 2012

Great questions ZeeeR9.

A1) Here at Dynojet, we do not carry any maps for the snowmobile Power Commanders in-house. Any sled map can be obtained through one of our distributors who spend countless hours on a dyno and in the field developing these maps. Due to the sheer number of combinations that a sledder can install on their machine (brand X's intake, brand Y's Y-pipe and pipe) we've found it would be almost impossbible to develop a coherent database for everyone to reference. On top of this, each aftermarket parts house would need to send us one of each of their products for map development -- which might not be attractive to them. In the future, we may be attempt to change this for the benefit of all parties involved.

A2) The link below should be of great assistance to you, but I will summarize the details. The Autotune references the ratio of Air to fuel composition exiting the exhaust via a Bosch Wideband probe which is then relayed to the PCV. Inside the PCV "Target AFR tables", the user (you) can input any valid ratio that you desire your machine to run at throughout the entire operating range. Typically this is in the high 14:1's in the bottom end, mid 13:1's in the mid range, and upper 12:1's on the high end for naturally aspirated applications. As you are riding on your tuning day, if the exhaust gases are not within the specified value that you inserted into the Target AFR table, the fueling to your engine is then adjusted in real time until the correct ratio is being burned. This is especially useful if you plan to try various combinations of engine modifications -- the map will be built FOR you as you ride no matter what alteration you make.
http://www.powercommander.com/powercommander/Products/AutoTune/powercommander_autotune.aspx

A3) The main rules for placement of an Wideband sensor on a 2 Stroke are:
--Keep it oriented as vertically upward as possible. This prevents moisture from fouling the sensor. Autotune instructions indicate only a 10* inclination from horizontal, but a higher angle is always better in the oil-rich exhaust emitted from our 2 Stroke powerplants.
--Place the sensor in an area where there is "flow" past the tip. This really means to Not place it in the corner of the silencer where a high amount of turbulence can develop and lead to very skewed readings.
In most cases and with your CFR1000, the O2 sensor is placed in the expansion chamber of the pipe near the factory EGT probe. Having the sensor on an inside bend also keeps it cleaner than if it were on the outside of the bend.

Thanks again for the questions and enjoy the upcoming winter!!

~T.J.

mountainhorse · Nov 26, 2012

DJ....

What efforts have you made or products under development for the Turbo 2-stroke market?

gunnerthesnowman · Nov 26, 2012

DynojetResearch said:
Great questions ZeeeR9.

A1) Here at Dynojet, we do not carry any maps for the snowmobile Power Commanders in-house. Any sled map can be obtained through one of our distributors who spend countless hours on a dyno and in the field developing these maps. Due to the sheer number of combinations that a sledder can install on their machine (brand X's intake, brand Y's Y-pipe and pipe) we've found it would be almost impossbible to develop a coherent database for everyone to reference. On top of this, each aftermarket parts house would need to send us one of each of their products for map development -- which might not be attractive to them. In the future, we may be attempt to change this for the benefit of all parties involved.

A2) The link below should be of great assistance to you, but I will summarize the details. The Autotune references the ratio of Air to fuel composition exiting the exhaust via a Bosch Wideband probe which is then relayed to the PCV. Inside the PCV "Target AFR tables", the user (you) can input any valid ratio that you desire your machine to run at throughout the entire operating range. Typically this is in the high 14:1's in the bottom end, mid 13:1's in the mid range, and upper 12:1's on the high end for naturally aspirated applications. As you are riding on your tuning day, if the exhaust gases are not within the specified value that you inserted into the Target AFR table, the fueling to your engine is then adjusted in real time until the correct ratio is being burned. This is especially useful if you plan to try various combinations of engine modifications -- the map will be built FOR you as you ride no matter what alteration you make.
http://www.powercommander.com/powercommander/Products/AutoTune/powercommander_autotune.aspx

A3) The main rules for placement of an Wideband sensor on a 2 Stroke are:
--Keep it oriented as vertically upward as possible. This prevents moisture from fouling the sensor. Autotune instructions indicate only a 10* inclination from horizontal, but a higher angle is always better in the oil-rich exhaust emitted from our 2 Stroke powerplants.
--Place the sensor in an area where there is "flow" past the tip. This really means to Not place it in the corner of the silencer where a high amount of turbulence can develop and lead to very skewed readings.
In most cases and with your CFR1000, the O2 sensor is placed in the expansion chamber of the pipe near the factory EGT probe. Having the sensor on an inside bend also keeps it cleaner than if it were on the outside of the bend.

Is this true with N/A Pro 800 as well

Thanks again for the questions and enjoy the upcoming winter!!

~T.J.

ttt

Insaneboltrounder/sjohns · Nov 26, 2012

just curious if a finely tuned pcv sled makes more power than a stocker?

ZeeeR9 · Nov 26, 2012

DynojetResearch said:
Great questions ZeeeR9.

A1) Here at Dynojet, we do not carry any maps for the snowmobile Power Commanders in-house. Any sled map can be obtained through one of our distributors who spend countless hours on a dyno and in the field developing these maps. Due to the sheer number of combinations that a sledder can install on their machine (brand X's intake, brand Y's Y-pipe and pipe) we've found it would be almost impossbible to develop a coherent database for everyone to reference. On top of this, each aftermarket parts house would need to send us one of each of their products for map development -- which might not be attractive to them. In the future, we may be attempt to change this for the benefit of all parties involved.

A2) The link below should be of great assistance to you, but I will summarize the details. The Autotune references the ratio of Air to fuel composition exiting the exhaust via a Bosch Wideband probe which is then relayed to the PCV. Inside the PCV "Target AFR tables", the user (you) can input any valid ratio that you desire your machine to run at throughout the entire operating range. Typically this is in the high 14:1's in the bottom end, mid 13:1's in the mid range, and upper 12:1's on the high end for naturally aspirated applications. As you are riding on your tuning day, if the exhaust gases are not within the specified value that you inserted into the Target AFR table, the fueling to your engine is then adjusted in real time until the correct ratio is being burned. This is especially useful if you plan to try various combinations of engine modifications -- the map will be built FOR you as you ride no matter what alteration you make.
http://www.powercommander.com/powercommander/Products/AutoTune/powercommander_autotune.aspx

A3) The main rules for placement of an Wideband sensor on a 2 Stroke are:
--Keep it oriented as vertically upward as possible. This prevents moisture from fouling the sensor. Autotune instructions indicate only a 10* inclination from horizontal, but a higher angle is always better in the oil-rich exhaust emitted from our 2 Stroke powerplants.
--Place the sensor in an area where there is "flow" past the tip. This really means to Not place it in the corner of the silencer where a high amount of turbulence can develop and lead to very skewed readings.
In most cases and with your CFR1000, the O2 sensor is placed in the expansion chamber of the pipe near the factory EGT probe. Having the sensor on an inside bend also keeps it cleaner than if it were on the outside of the bend.

Thanks again for the questions and enjoy the upcoming winter!!

~T.J.

Thanks T.J. great explaination, sometimes reading everthing about your products gets mind blowing, and when some such as yourself expains it with the basics it really helps understand. I am looking forward to tuning my sled this winter with your product and will certianly post my findings.
thanks again.

DynojetResearch · Nov 27, 2012

MH -
In the turbo two stroke market, the latest from us is the Dual-PTi setup available for the boosted Arctic Cat's and Polaris's. This new fuel controller perfects the method that fuel is added by automatically compensating for elevation/barometric pressure differences. This means no more messing with buttons as you ride from the truck up into the high country - the PCV does it all for you. Also, for those familiar with PCV software, the fuel table for boost can be all Zeros - and we are already adding the proper theoretical amount of fuel without you having to tune the machine. Fine tuning is still conducted in the same manner by referencing plug color and wash - and then gauges after knowing baselines to obtain the most out of your sled.
This unit is pretty neat and I've loved having one on my Turbo Pro.

The next (and most common) question that I'll respond to regarding turbo fuel controllers is our ability to run secondary injectors on a Polaris:
A: We do have several of these prototypes in the hands of testers who I've been in contact with every week as the snow is beginning to fly. The PCV is perfectly able to handle the fueling of dual injector setups, but the mapping becomes a little convoluted since the sled now has two "imaginary" injectors. At this point, due to the complexity of tuning this version, I will not pull the trigger on releasing this into our production. Instead, a minor firmware fix will simplify the process and provide users with an easy upgrade to their fuel controller for their dual injector fueled Polaris.
We are currently in the process of fitting this into the schedule of our software engineers as we are swamped with a slurry of other projects - an have no estimate on timeframe when this would be available...

Gunner -
For any N/A sled equipped with a stock EGT probe, a close proximity to that location is the most common place I've seen the AFR bung installed. On the Pro (or even the Cat for that matter) I could also see the neckdown area that is unshielded just before the silencer as a potential spot to place the sensor in a vertical orientation (if it will fit under the hood). The airflow past this point should remain quite laminar, albeit at a higher velocity than in the expansion chamber. Both should be capable of producing accurate readings.....I would gladly heed the advice of any other members who have tried these with varying results.

sjohns -
This is a very good question that I'm sure will have some nay-sayers...nonetheless, any OEM machine does have the potential to produce more power than in stock form due to the manufacturers adherence to EPA standards. Whether it is a Dirtbike, a Harley Davidson, or a snowmobile, the tune in the ECU is conservative and very clean to meet standards. When attaching a sled to a dyno, I can say that horsepower increase is nothing to write home about (until we start playing with timing). Instead, the machine becomes more rideable by smoothing out those "safe zones" built in by the OEMs (which makes it feel like it has more ponies).

ZeeeR9 -
The amount of neat capabilities that is available within the Dynojet line of products does become mindblowing sometimes. I am more than happy to clear up misconceptions or provide additional clarification. The ability to explain things in a easy to follow manner is directly attributed to my years as an educator at the collegiate level. Thank you Montana State!

Have a great day everyone - and thanks for keeping this thread going! I enjoy the enthusiasm...

~T.J.

ZeeeR9 · Dec 10, 2012

ZeeeR9 said:
Thanks T.J. great explaination, sometimes reading everthing about your products gets mind blowing, and when some such as yourself expains it with the basics it really helps understand. I am looking forward to tuning my sled this winter with your product and will certianly post my findings.
thanks again.

Ok, I have done some more research and have a couple more questions for you to see if I'm correct in what I am thinking.

Q1- So, I have the PCV now and the autotune kit. My plan is to install both items on the sled (sled is stock) enable the autotune feature, set the AFR's to my desired numbers and just drive the sled. As I understand this should give me some numbers as to what the sled is doing stock with my set desired AFR's. Then I will bolt on say the Y-pipe and do the same. each time analizing the numbers and accepting the trims. each step would add to building the final map after all the changes have been made.

Q2- Is there a specific way a person should operate the sled to get the best results from the autotune or just drive as one would normal. Some say that if the sled hickups, burps or backfires it throws the numbers off. My understanding is you should run the sled thru the RPM range at a steady rate and throttle speed to the top RPM and get the numbers from that. Don't trail ride for map numbers??

Q3- In regards to fuel Octane. AC recommends burning regular octane fuel in the sled, but when things like Ypipes etc are added the aftermarket suppliers say to use supreme or 91oct fuel. My question is if one is using the autotuner and set AFR's does it matter which octane you burn?

I guess if you can make any sence out of these questions your answers will be greatly appriciated.
Thanks
Scott

DynojetResearch · Dec 11, 2012

ZeeeR9,

Great questions and I'm glad to see that you're diving into the PCV ready for the fun season.

A1) Using the autotune on the stock machine without your modifications is an overkill step to take -- but do so if you wish. This will cement the operations of the PCV in your mind as you go through the tuning cycle. Most times, stock machines with an autotune will not need show large amounts of fuel trims to hit your desired ratios (at least we always hope that the OEMs can put together a coherent fuel map -- but this is not always the case). Enabling the autotune after ALL of your modifications are installed will make the process much quicker, but doing it one piece at a time will tell you how much the air/fuel flow has been changed with respect to each mod. Sometimes this is neat to see the resulting map changes firsthand.....

A2) Steady application of throttle is by far the only way to give autotune the chance to build you a map. Normal riding with the blips and stabs of throttle really throw off the exhaust gas readings because the ECU can insert Accel Pump pulses, turn of the injectors when chopping the gas, and any other random event it chooses. The key here to remember is that the PCV is piggyback system and will only add/subtract on top of what the ECU already wants to do. If you induce these choppy throttle movements and the ECU jerks the duty cycles around, the PCV will tune incorrectly. Your plan to ride at constant 5%, then 10%, then 15%, etc....throttle positions is perfect.

A3) Octane of fuel does not change how many part of fuel + parts of air are going through your engine. While octane may alter the burn of the fuel (hotter/colder) the composition of the fuel mixture must remain the same inside the engine because it has the same efficiency, needing the same fuel volume.
I will caution against oxygenated fuel or fuels containing ethanol. These fuels have a molecular composition with a % of oxygen already in the fuel. This results in an air-rich burn and leaner conditions if you do not increase the fuel (actual Liquid part) injected.

Thanks for these questions!!

~T.J.

sdcc · Dec 12, 2012

Thanks for the great info.

Team Pigeon · Jan 5, 2013

I was told that I am able to use the WB2 in lieu of the auto tune- is this proper info? The WB2 gives me the capability to run an AFR gauge. The LCD is nice but doesn't function the best in the cold. If only the WB 2 could give me a throttle position output too. That's all I'd need to make my fine adjustments.

Also another question. Is it possible to connect a 9volt to the system as temporary power when fiddling with the PCV and LCD? To have the sled running is real annoying when making LCD changes. Not sure if the auto tune would be trying to rob power to heat up the Bosch sensor?

Thanks in advance, your posts here have helped explain a few things.

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