WSSA Votes for Registration Fee Increase #2

[plumnuts]

okay.. I quit posting because the other thread went over 75 posts... so I am back in...

I am now receiving E-mails from WSSA leadership on this topic and it not looking so bleak. It appears if the WSSA moves on recommending a dramatic raise in the snowmobile fees... it may shut the door on obtaining the snowmobile funds full share of the gas tax... this is big bucks!

A proposal that is being circulated is a raise in the fees 10-15 bucks and coupled with the full share of the gas tax, the snowmobile fund would be fully funded with a reserve. Seems some folks on the board put some math to it and discovered what was needed and were looking for substained revenue stream. Board folks also figured out a huge increase in the snowmobile fees would decrease revenue and be "a public relations nightmare"... okay... WSSA leadership is thinking this through... and what I have read from the E-mails.. I can support the modest increase in tag price...

 

[Bagger]

Well, it would seem that the WSSA really isn't out to fund the Olympia fat cats at the expense of the people they are supposed to be looking out for.

Who'd a thunk it.

Can somebody please let all the Chicken Littles know that the Sky isn't falling after all, but that their support was noted.

Bag

 

[CleElum Sledhead]

and to saws Dave.. sorry I gave up on saws...just found it more satisfying and productive on my own. miss your company. hope you are doing well.

stirring this pot IS A GOOD THING!!!

Chris

Good luck with your new direction Chris. Hope it works out. I have pretty much given up on the snowmobile crowd in general to be willing to fight to keep our access. Far to few are willing to participate, leaving the heavy lifting to just a handful of people. Pretty sad...

Let's get back on track for this thread.

How much do WA snowmobilers want to pay for grooming?

Thought - Seniors get a lot of discounts, I wonder if the license fee for sleds that are older than n (n = maybe 10 years) could get a discount? As in many cases these older sleds are hand-me-down sleds, cabin beat around sleds, or sleds from folks that do not have the income or desire to upgrade every few years.

Just trying to think outside the box.

 

[winter brew]

The lesser price on older sleds is a good thought. Keep the sport affordable for those that aren't dumb enough to spend $13K on a new sled! LOL

 

[blindman]

Good luck with your new direction Chris. Hope it works out. I have pretty much given up on the snowmobile crowd in general to be willing to fight to keep our access. Far to few are willing to participate, leaving the heavy lifting to just a handful of people. Pretty sad...

Let's get back on track for this thread.

How much do WA snowmobilers want to pay for grooming?

Thought - Seniors get a lot of discounts, I wonder if the license fee for sleds that are older than n (n = maybe 10 years) could get a discount? As in many cases these older sleds are hand-me-down sleds, cabin beat around sleds, or sleds from folks that do not have the income or desire to upgrade every few years.

Just trying to think outside the box.

same oh same oh from the status quoh


some more

Quote:
Originally Posted by tar
There is nothing stoping you or any one donating to the program. If any one thinks the program is short on funds, donate then. Don't tell us how much you would spend.
Tar

Tar, I believe we should all post how much we would spend...after all that is what started this thread

Sooooo

set up and collect at the trailhead and get rid of the state and I will do the same here as in canada...ehh remember I have already spent $200 in canada this season

now you know about $ 20.00 per ride...

if anyone does not want to pay then leave some areas ungroomed and not maintained for them to ride as is done in canada.. those areas are not bad after fresh snow...however the snowpark can be a bitch

for me riding in this state with the canada model described above, choosing where to ride each time would probably be about $ 600 from me alone into the grooming fund

pay as you go without gvt would be my best scenario...and if we could sue for offroad gas tax to pay some then hell ya.


my bad after looking back I have only spent $180 for trailhead fees in canada so far this year...planning one more trip so may be about $250 when done
Last edited by wendell; 03-12-2012 at 04:00 PM.


from the last thread ...what I would pay

the license fee should be
$200.00 i would pay in a heartbeat


i have already paid that riding in canada this year for trail fees

the rest of you are just whiners

 

[blindman]

The lesser price on older sleds is a good thought. Keep the sport affordable for those that aren't dumb enough to spend $13K on a new sled! LOL

need to charge a user fee per sled at the trailhead

otherwise we are stuck in this state of who should have what,,,, and who should be excluded....

YOU COULD HAVE A CLUB ANNUAL PASS FOR YOUR "AREA" JUST LIKE CANADA

have non groomed areas for those who do not want to pay.


just like skiing....go find a place to park and do your thing


OR.... PAY TO RIDE THE RESORT

 

[JETJOHNSO]

a couple of you guys dont get it,

We have over 100 snoparks in our state, who's going to set up a road block and collect at all of them or just some, what about the family of 5 who shows up at crystal springs, do we collect 20 bucks for each family member as they enter our trail system ? Do we ding them every time they come up or just now and than, do we take credit cards, pay pal or cash, who hauls the cash to the bank, how many people are going to give up their weekend to collect money. EVERY WEEK END from Dec 1 to March 31 rst, what about thursday nights at green water ?? Whos going to go hang out upthere, What about Mt Baker, ,, that might be the easiest one to collect at, weekends only or what do we do with the people who go up and ride during the week,?? I'm not bashing on you and eveyone has an idea of how to do it ,,,Its just not possible by any means, did you see the post from the guy in canada that is lobbying to get a provincial reg fee likes ours right now.! they actually like our system and wish they had it up there. AND AS FOR THE FUEL TAX, I posted this problem so many times ,,,, WSSA and the lobbyiest have been trying for about 3 or 4 years, They say we are close, ?? REALLY ?? I'm all for it but I personally (and many others) dont think it's going to happen in this economy, the state is hurting to much, It's 14 cent times 135 gallons of gas == $ 18.90 per sled, which would be great, but the chances are slim to none, last time this was put into action we got like 2 to 3 cents evey few years to get us to 23 cents where we are now and than the lid was closed, I seriously dought they would give us the full amount at one time, ya right,,,,,

 

[sunbather1969]

This thread has turned

yup that's me...enjoy it, as gets more riders worked up and involved

sunbather....put in half the effort i have and YOU also can be like me..lol

and or either know what your talking about...lmao


and to saws Dave.. sorry I gave up on saws...just found it more satisfying and productive on my own. miss your company. hope you are doing well.

stirring this pot IS A GOOD THING!!!

Chris

into a pizzn match

 

[sunbather1969]

We have over 100 snoparks in our state, who's going to set up a road block and collect at all of them or just some, what about the family of 5 who shows up at crystal springs, do we collect 20 bucks for each family member as they enter our trail system ? Do we ding them every time they come up or just now and than, do we take credit cards, pay pal or cash, who hauls the cash to the bank, how many people are going to give up their weekend to collect money. EVERY WEEK END from Dec 1 to March 31 rst, what about thursday nights at green water ?? Whos going to go hang out upthere, What about Mt Baker, ,, that might be the easiest one to collect at, weekends only or what do we do with the people who go up and ride during the week,?? I'm not bashing on you and eveyone has an idea of how to do it ,,,Its just not possible by any means, did you see the post from the guy in canada that is lobbying to get a provincial reg fee likes ours right now.! they actually like our system and wish they had it up there. AND AS FOR THE FUEL TAX, I posted this problem so many times ,,,, WSSA and the lobbyiest have been trying for about 3 or 4 years, They say we are close, ?? REALLY ?? I'm all for it but I personally (and many others) dont think it's going to happen in this economy, the state is hurting to much, It's 14 cent times 135 gallons of gas == $ 18.90 per sled, which would be great, but the chances are slim to none, last time this was put into action we got like 2 to 3 cents evey few years to get us to 23 cents where we are now and than the lid was closed, I seriously dought they would give us the full amount at one time, ya right,,,,,

I appreciate everything you do for snowmobiling. I just don't think more money is going to make everything better, especially that kind of money.

 

[plumnuts]

this is the problem with the government being involved... I heard today...although some areas DO NOT NEED TO BE GROOMED they are grooming because there is still money allocated and the money has to be spent or you don't get the same amount next year... for you folks on the grooming committees... is this factual?

 

[JETJOHNSO]

NOBODY LOOSE'S MONEY NEXT YEAR IF NOT SPEN THIS YEAR

Thats another mis-conception. If they dont spend their money in a certain area, it goes back into our dedicated snowmobile funds for next year, It doesnt get "swepted" or turned back to the general fund. It's ours and we keep it. And for you riders in the lower end of the state, Kelso ect. MT saint helens needs more money , we all agree on that , you guys are shorted in the program but I can tell you straight up, you are NEVER going to get more money with out a reg fee increase because there is no money to give you ! same thing with mt baker, they need more money also, thats the facts. ALL the area's were cut almost 20 % last season, might happen again for next year too. We do not collect enough money to run the program the way it should be. The facts are, it cost more to groom and plow every year but we collect less money, doesnt take any rocket scientist to figure that out. AGAIN we are operating off less money than we had 8 years ago, Why is it so hard for some people to figure this out ??

 

[plumnuts]

Thats another mis-conception. If they dont spend their money in a certain area, it goes back into our dedicated snowmobile funds for next year, It doesnt get "swepted" or turned back to the general fund. It's ours and we keep it. And for you riders in the lower end of the state, Kelso ect. Mountain saint helens needs more money , we all agree on that and I can tell you straight up, you are NEVER going to get more money with out a reg fee increase because there is no money to give you ! thats the facts. ALL the area's were cut almost 20 % last season, might happen again for next year too. We do not collect enough money to run the program the way it should be. The facts are, it cost more to groom and plow every year but we collect less money, doesnt take any rocket scientist to figure that out. AGAIN we are operating off less money than we had 8 years ago, whats so hard for some people to figure this out ??

ok... but I am telling you they are grooming... and no grooming is needed. smart money is on substainable revenue flow that meets the needs..

 

[JETJOHNSO]

where are they grooming where it doesnt need it

Have'nt heard that very often. what area is grooming and it's not needed, I'm sure the grooming council in that area would like that info to give to state parks.

 

[sunbather1969]

jet

where did the cuts in funding come from, registrations ? Also for a guys like me that doesn't have a problem spending the extra money get all the info on the new plan. I just want my money spent well with no fears of it going woosh. I would like to be more involved but i work out of state and country and being more involved other than my registrations is not a option . sorry

 

[plumnuts]

Have'nt heard that very often. what area is grooming and it's not needed, I'm sure the grooming council in that area would like that info to give to state parks.

as I am asking around... and calling around on this issue... there is a rush to groom this time of year as the area groom council want to exhaust any remaining money... as what I am told... the parks department considers left over money for the next budget year... the "use it or lose it" government way of budgeting...

I like the current WSSA plan being discussed of capturing all of the gas tax allowed and a modest increase in the registration. However there are other reasonable steps. Charge for the snow park permit and make the Legislative reprosocity changes.

 

[JETJOHNSO]

CUTS CAME FROM , NOT ENOUGH MONEY GATHERED LAST SEASON

The money we spent / spend this season came from last years license fees and gas tax money, We didnt take in enough to spend like we did the previous season. So we went thru the budget and made cuts thruout the entire program, grooming , plowing , sanitation, law enforcement ect ect. If you dont have it , you cant spend it. Next years budget will depend on this year sled reg and fuel tax money. And again, NOBODY WILL LOOSE MONEY NEXT YEAR IF NOT SPENT THIS YEAR. thats not the way the program works. Some area's get more snow than others, there are several grooming programs in the state that do not spend all their money allocated and still get the same amount the next year . We do not penalize them, We congratulate them for being frugal and not wasting money.

 

[plumnuts]

there are several grooming programs in the state that do not spend all their money allocated and still get the same amount the next year . We do not penalize them, We congratulate them for being frugal and not wasting money.

ok that sounds good.. but checking with a couple of people that are involved with local grooming (here and elsewhere in Eastern WA) are not aware of this policy

 

[Bagger]

Every bit of this dialog is Exactly why we ALL need to attend local club meetings, local grooming meetings and WSSA meetings.

This input needs to be made face to face and on the record with the folks that are in a position to act or bring the pressure to bear on the folks that can act.

Bitching on the internet is kinda like kissing your Sister. It's something to do, but you won't get much out of it.

Attending meetings, getting ACCURATE information and taking the people in the drivers seat to task with your 'well informed' argument is far superior to logging on and kicking dirt at the folks that are trying to fix things while you refuse to even support the program that we have that is functional and is just underfunded because of a failure of increases for 7 years.

How many of you have gotten a pay raise in the last seven years?

How many of you truely believe that a 7 year old sled can hang with the current crop of new sleds? (don't worry, I know your's can! )

In the last 7 years how many of you bought helmet cams? ABS packs? Beacons? Spots? Was that in your sledding budget 7 years ago?

There is always going to be a percentage of society that is perfectly willing to let other's pay the way and still complain about the free stuff not being good enough.

Let's not throw out the baby with the bath water. Let's look at supporting our program that works and works well, is just underfunded. That is the program that is owned by us. Is funded by us and is managed by us.

Oh, wait, that's wrong That is the program that is owned by all of us. is funded by SOME of us and is managed by the BEST OF US. You know, the guys that give up thier keyboard throne so they can go take part in the meetings that keep it going.

Come on guys, think of our program as a sled in the back country low on fuel, wouldn't you stop and help? Are you really the guy that would ride by an empty sled and laugh on your way out to the truck?

REALLY?

Bag

 

[JETJOHNSO]

bagger, I knew I like you for some reason !!

Very well put, wish the rest of the snowmobiling community could see things your way,

 

[sunbather1969]

I couldn't read to far past

Every bit of this dialog is Exactly why we ALL need to attend local club meetings, local grooming meetings and WSSA meetings.

This input needs to be made face to face and on the record with the folks that are in a position to act or bring the pressure to bear on the folks that can act.

Bitching on the internet is kinda like kissing your Sister. It's something to do, but you won't get much out of it.

Attending meetings, getting ACCURATE information and taking the people in the drivers seat to task with your 'well informed' argument is far superior to logging on and kicking dirt at the folks that are trying to fix things while you refuse to even support the program that we have that is functional and is just underfunded because of a failure of increases for 7 years.

How many of you have gotten a pay raise in the last seven years?

How many of you truely believe that a 7 year old sled can hang with the current crop of new sleds? (don't worry, I know your's can! )

In the last 7 years how many of you bought helmet cams? ABS packs? Beacons? Spots? Was that in your sledding budget 7 years ago?

There is always going to be a percentage of society that is perfectly willing to let other's pay the way and still complain about the free stuff not being good enough.

Let's not throw out the baby with the bath water. Let's look at supporting our program that works and works well, is just underfunded. That is the program that is owned by us. Is funded by us and is managed by us.

Oh, wait, that's wrong That is the program that is owned by all of us. is funded by SOME of us and is managed by the BEST OF US. You know, the guys that give up thier keyboard throne so they can go take part in the meetings that keep it going.

Come on guys, think of our program as a sled in the back country low on fuel, wouldn't you stop and help? Are you really the guy that would ride by an empty sled and laugh on your way out to the truck?

REALLY?

Bag

Attending meetings and all the other bs, some people give everything they can with there registration i work out of state and pay dues at a few clubs if everything we need to do is give more money what the f do we get BOTTOM LINE DUDE! Really what your saying is we need to pay i understand and am educated but where's the rules and regs like everything else i pay money for! This is the second time i've asked for this in the 2nd thread! Where does the rollover money go and all the other bs i know that used to happen , PS IM STILL RIDING MY GROOMING FEE FOR IDAHO AND MONTANA SWEET TRAILS AND PEOPLE THEY ARE FRIENDLY WHEN THEY GROOM RIGHT TO THE LITTLE TOWNS EVERYWHERE VOLENTEER BY THE WAY . BOTH FEES CHEAPER THAN WHAT YOUR TALKING! YET I WILL PAY FOR WA,ID AND MONTANA I JUST DON'T GET WHAT I PAY FOR IN WA. NO FRICKEN SURPRISE! BAGGER What is diff between monies for groomed trails between id and wa per registrations in 2011/2012 season. When it rolls over how is it dispursed ? Lots of questions where's the answers? Give me info to my questions and many more i'll give you my money i already pay too much money to the governor to not ask ?s. Lots of people vote i'm a registered voter give us details instead of hitting us with ultimatums thats where my problem comes in.