Will you take THE AVALANCHE CHALLENGE??

[KSH]

I love climbing hills, and am decent at it. I just have to restrain myself at times. My comments here are being purposely misunderstood, because we as a group don't want to look in the mirror and challenge behavior, we would rather put electronics on the job. You guys can continue to criticize the messenger, I have thick skin. Years of police work and search and rescue.

i agree about classes for avy awareness. That's a great idea. Who could oppose that?

You were a cop and worked S&R, and come on here and say I don't carry a beacon because I might find a dead body?

I'm glad you avoid all mountain riding on trails that could possibly hit by avalanches. Because trail riding in possible avalanche areas could be considered risky behavior.

I carry my beacon not because I ride in high risk areas, I carry it because I don't want to have to tell somebodies family that I could not possibly help save there life because I thought that they were doing something stupid and I thought letting them die was preferable to trying to recover them.

I understand your thinking, but the problem is when somebody starts thinking the beacon they carry is for helping to find them, not for finding others.

 

[christopher]

I carry my beacon not because I ride in high risk areas, I carry it because I don't want to have to tell somebodies family that I could not possibly help save there life because I thought that they were doing something stupid and I thought letting them die was preferable to trying to recover them.

Well Said!!

 

[polaris dude]

I don't see why you cannot all just take Lear's point for what its worth. Obviously he's just saying be smart and think about what your doing. This can be as simple as following the only 1 rider on a slope at a time rule or even to monitor snow pack conditions and watching for wind loading.

 

[deschutes]

This thread is getting interesting, and I am glad we are having some good dialog. I think everyone has made some great points, and I appreciate Lears comments and insight.

My understanding is that a number of years ago you were actually MORE likely to be involved in an avalanche incident if you had received some training and went out into the backcountry prepared. It took awhile, but eventually those creating and teaching avalanche curriculum took a hard look at what they were teaching. They realized that while they were teaching good snow science, recovery techniques, etc. there was not enough emphasis on decision making. At this point there was a shift in philosophy and a focus on taking the data that is collected or observed and using it to make good decisions to avoid putting oneself, and others, in a bad situation in the first place.

As to the beacon and such being recovery tools, yes technically you are correct. In the hands of a well trained and competent user (ie. a professional) the live recovery rate is close to 70%. For the average joe it is much less. However, it is still better than zero and you can increase the odds significantly by obtaining as much education and experience before you need it, and my hope is that you never do.

The avy challenge is not about the cool cats excluding someone because they don't have a beacon or probe or being irresponsible if you do. It is also definitely not about relying on technology to keep people safe. It is about making good decisions, which includes being prepared with something in your head (knowledge, experience, etc.) and something in your hand (the appropriate tools). It's about being proactive (having the common sense, ability and foresight to stay out of trouble) and the ability to be reactive (being equipped and knowing how to quickly deal with a situation if you need to). It's about sharing that knowledge and doing all you can to keep others safe, even if that means exerting a little peer pressure. By insisting that everyone in the group make these good decisions, you increase the odds that everyone will come home at the end of the day. Ultimately, this is what it is all about.

 

[tar]

I don't care what anyone thinks, I always wear my beacon, carry probes and a shovel, and so do the people I ride with.

My riding buddy Dan left his beacon is his truck. 1/1/08
He never thought he was going to die that day in an avalanche.
It took 2 days to find him.There were at least 20 people with probes looking.

Wearing a beacon may not have saved his life but we could have found him a lot sooner.

If you go in the back county just wear your beacon it's just that simple.

Oh yea, put in new batteries.

Ride smart stay alive.

Tar

 

[tar]

I would like to add that there was an other victim.

She was wearing a beacon and was found with in minutes, but she did not survive.

Tar

 

[Leardriver]

Sorry about your friend. It's always tragic when someone goes out for a day of fun, and something like that happens. I wish I could have been next to you digging and hoping for a miracle.

 

[turbo daryl]

Get Geared Stupid

If you don't rock gear you don't ride with us....

Beacons
Probes
Shovels
SnowPulse Airbags
Avilungs
Reco Wear
Garmin Rhino's with Topo Maps

And SURVIVAL GEAR.... (fire starter, survival blankets, first aid, xtra layers)

We go balls deep in the wilderness. I'm only 25 and me and all my boys ride very decked out. Had 2 friends die in an avi at 16 who were very experienced bad *** skiers and had ridden the line 100 times. If you don't carry gear you are ignorant. Also check your local sources...

Ours is...

http://www.sierraavalanchecenter.org/

Be smart! Carry gear.

 

[skibreeze]

If you don't rock gear you don't ride with us....

Beacons
Probes
Shovels
SnowPulse Airbags
Avilungs
Reco Wear
Garmin Rhino's with Topo Maps

And SURVIVAL GEAR.... (fire starter, survival blankets, first aid, xtra layers)

We go balls deep in the wilderness. I'm only 25 and me and all my boys ride very decked out. Had 2 friends die in an avi at 16 who were very experienced bad *** skiers and had ridden the line 100 times. If you don't carry gear you are ignorant. Also check your local sources...

Ours is...

http://www.sierraavalanchecenter.org/

Be smart! Carry gear.

Last I heard, we weren't supposed to go ball deep in the wilderness, but I get your point.

 

[The Fourth Wolf]

Our club maintains an education fund that reimburses members up to $250 per member per year for safety education and training as long as it has some bearing on snowmobiling. Anything from First Aid to Wilderness Survival courses, and of course, avalanche training.

How many other clubs are doing this?

 

[christopher]

Thats a heck of a good deal for your members!

 

[Knox]

first of all im not trained at all in avalanche safety, i dont know how to use a beacon, the only info i have ever gotten on avys is off this site, which i am truly thankful for. i would like to be trained in every way possible on avys, i live in north dakota and no where can i find a place that offers any training.......i try to be an active backcountry rider when the time permits itself usually bein 3-5 times a year, most people think "o you only go out that many times a year its not worth a beacon or an abs bag" since when is someones life not for $300 for a beacon and $1500 for a bag? i have no way of taking courses so my only source of info on avalanche safety is here on snowest so whatever ever you guys/gals have keep it comin any info is greatly appreciated

 

[capnkirk]

Avy1 certified

Just took Mike Duffy's avy class yesterday. I may only get out west twice a year, but I intend to be prepaired. Beacon, probe, shovel all ready to go. Plus, my group attended the class too and all will have, and know how to use, all their Avy gear! I may just be a mid-westerner, but I don't want to tarnish the mountains with my blood, or the that of my buddies!

Looking forward to Avy2, coming feb. 10-11th in Munising, MI!

 

[suitcase]

The cost of these things hurts a little at first but well worth the money. Have set halfcase and myself up with Avy gear this yr. I have rolled the dice to long, and I won't let halfcase even get ahold of them.

 

[veritascs]

I only ride with people that have beacons.

I always bring a beacon/probe/shovel/string for pits.

And for this year, because I'm gonna have a sled that will get me in places I shouldn't be, I'm getting a avalanche airbag equipped backpack. I can easily justify it when it's less than a tenth of a new sled and has a very high success rate.

 

[Rev Kev]

Stepping things up this year, Taking Mike Duffys Classroom class (again) along with his On Snow Class Later in the season, while we are out west, Mike is coming out to meet up with our group on the Mountain.

 

[yep]

I only ride with people that have beacons.

I always bring a beacon/probe/shovel/string for pits.

And for this year, because I'm gonna have a sled that will get me in places I shouldn't be, I'm getting a avalanche airbag equipped backpack. I can easily justify it when it's less than a tenth of a new sled and has a very high success rate.

I think that was the point of some of the above posts. That if you have a sled that takes you places that you really should't be, then maybe all that training should have taught you that just because you have it all this safety gear that maybe you SHOULDN'T GO THERE! I think the above post proves some of the points that were made earlier in this thread to be true.

 

[EagleRiverDee]

I would add- commit to take avy training and ask your riding buddies to take training as well. Training is incredibly important and I don't think people realize how much so until they take it. Beacons are, to a point, self-explanatory but time is of the essence when looking for a buried rider. Understanding how to use your beacon, and having practiced finding a buried beacon, is very important. It makes me incredibly nervous that most of the people I ride with have NEVER practiced with their beacons. They just assume they'll figure it out when the time comes. Frankly, I don't want to be their learning curve.

I took avy training this year and on our first mock burial it took us 18 minutes to find and dig out 3 victims (the third had no beacon and we had to use surface clues). Needless to say, the third guy had poor chances as survival after 15 mins goes way down but we also weren't all that fast on finding the first two despite the beacons. After practice, we did another mock up scenario and improved our time for finding and digging out two victims with beacons to 8 minutes. The first victim was out in 2 minutes. I'm certain that with even more practice that could be improved further.

Put yourself under that snow, and ask yourself how long you want to wait to be dug out? Especially if you were unable to put an air pocket in front of your face?

Take the avy course, ask your friends to take the avy course, and practice not just during the course but on a routine basis afterward. Someone's life may depend on it.

 

[Powderfreak56]

Get Rid of that OL' Dinasour!!

This is something that nobody has touched on while reading these posts. I have a dear freind of mine that I respect and admire in more ways than he can imagine. Over the years he always kept after me on different occasions that I should get a snowmobile. His persistence payed off one day as I drove up to his house with a brand new machine. He found a riding buddy at last!
After a couple of times out, he had mentioned that I probably want to get a transciever. So I did my research on the web and bought a BCA Tracker 1. This was one of the fastest beacons on the planet! I should be able to find my buddy in case of an Avey super fast. Our first Avey search drill came to me as a wake up call! Yes, he had a tranciever, but I have NO idea what year this thing was made in. It was a Dinasour! On that occasion I hid my beacon and yelled Avalache! He comes out of the cabin untwirling the ear phones, plugging it in, turning it on and and trying to hear a signal. Turning side by side, listening for a stronger tone, taking a few steps in the somewhat direction. As this was going on, I couldn't help but to think that whoever he was looking for, meaning me, wasn't going to make it. This transciever was a dead body retrieval device. I think it took him almost eight minutes to find my beacon. We reversed roles and I found his in twenty seconds! One thing that I have heard over and over again was, "make sure your buddies have better equipment than you do". This was not the case. Not only did he have a Dinasour, he kept the beacon in his butt pack! Are you kidding me! What happens if that pack gets ripped off your body? I could be looking for a butt pack in the snow! Sorry buddy! Should of had that thing where it belongs...around your chest and under your coat. Not only that but, how is he going to look for me when he's missing his butt pack! I had bought a second transciever over the years. A BCA Traker2. I got him to use it on a couple occasions and I think my message got across. My persistence paid off!
As of this year he has retired the Dinasour and now owns a BCA Tracker2. I just hope it doesn't wind up in his butt pack!!!! I can now go out with him in confidence without that thought hanging over my head. "Don't ride with a Dinasour"!!

 

[EagleRiverDee]

Powderfreak-

That's a good point. I think a lot of folks don't realize that the old avy beacons are obsolete. I even saw someone say the other day that he prefers his old single antennae analog avy beacon because the batteries last longer. Yeah, that matters a LOT when you can't find your buddy or can't be found because your beacon is dead technology. Newer beacons may eat batteries faster but they still last plenty long- I might change batteries once per season, and that's getting out most weekends.