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snowmobiler
Well-known member
maybe a few richy sledders will give some avy gear to the poor needy sledders for christmas.
Who doesn't use avalanche gear.
- Thread starter dootime3
- Start date
I disagree. Just because you own a sled doesn't mean you have (or have budgeted) 350 bones to drop on a transceiver. Buddy rides a 17 year old sled because he can't afford a new one right now. He can afford gas and food though, so he rides.
And yes, 300+ for a beacon is pricing based on the fear associated with avalanches, not the cost of producing the unit. Apple's margins on iPhones are ridiculous, but people willingly pay it so they charge it. Same with beacon manufacturers.
And the question "How much is your life worth" is what pushy home security sales people ask.
FYI, I ride with beacon, probe and shovel because I want to be able to help, just in case.
D
dootime3
Member
There was 3 places I mentioned in my first post where we ride without avy gear. Togwatee, snowys and big horns. Reason I even brought it up was because we see a lot of people in the parking lots, lodges leaving on there sleds without backpacks and their shovels strapped to the tunnel. We can't be the only ones at those places riding without.
http://jhavalanche.org/areaFatalities
According to this. 5 killed in a avalanche in togwatee over the last 30 years. 3 in the snowys. 0 in the big horns. That's on a snowmobile, not including skiing. It just doesn't seem like big avy territory. Now if we were to go to Cooke where there seems to be an avalanche death every week you can be guaranteed we would have em. But we don't go to Cooke cause of that reason alone.
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http://jhavalanche.org/areaFatalities
According to this. 5 killed in a avalanche in togwatee over the last 30 years. 3 in the snowys. 0 in the big horns. That's on a snowmobile, not including skiing. It just doesn't seem like big avy territory. Now if we were to go to Cooke where there seems to be an avalanche death every week you can be guaranteed we would have em. But we don't go to Cooke cause of that reason alone.
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Dootime3 : those are exactly the places we ride and I see far less avy gear in the parking lot when coming and going then I see people with.
Here's one more thing to all of you that are spouting the, "well if you don't have avy gear you ain't riding with me" stuff. Do you think your some god or something, that everyone wants to ride with you? Here's a clue I have a specific group of people I ride with and there's a reason for that. So when your spouting that think of this you are not in that group and haven't been for 40 years I think I can safely say you will not be riding with me.
Good luck have fun, Dale.
Here's one more thing to all of you that are spouting the, "well if you don't have avy gear you ain't riding with me" stuff. Do you think your some god or something, that everyone wants to ride with you? Here's a clue I have a specific group of people I ride with and there's a reason for that. So when your spouting that think of this you are not in that group and haven't been for 40 years I think I can safely say you will not be riding with me.
Good luck have fun, Dale.
This statement has nothing to do with thinking you are Gods gift to sledding. It has to do with the fact that IF something happens out there I want to know that the guys I'm riding with could help try and save my life just as I would theirs.
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capulin overdrive
Well-known member
Exactly!
And it's not a money thing, it's a priority thing.
Plenty of people with not so great jobs have and wear all the gear.
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Bcorn
Well-known member
I like it!
Since I occasionally do not wear my gear I will go ahead and answer with some questions myself...
Who wears a seat belt while in a vehicle every time?
Who wears a life vest while on the water every time?
Who wears a helmet while riding motorcycle every time?
Who wears a helmet while riding bicycle every time?
Who wears a harness while working above 8' every time?
Who wears safety glasses when appropriate every time?
Who wears hearing protection when appropriate every time?
Unless you can say "yes" to every above question, you have no business questioning anyone else about when they choose to or not to take reasonable safety measures.
And if you can say "yes" to all above......well you're an annoying dweeb!
The cost issue IS a real factor for some people, and no its not because they feel there life is not worth the $300 for a beacon. While I could probably scrape up the money for one, alot of my group it takes what little extra they have just to get out and enjoy one of they're favorite hobbies, and for some of them that means only getting out 2 maybe 3 times a year. These guys are on 10+ year old sleds because that's the best they can afford just to get out and ride once and a while, so its not like they're blowing all kinds of money to ride and just disregarding the safety aspect. Everyone of them understands the risks and are not against having the safety equipment, its just not in the cards so they do the best they can. Even though there are a few of us with new iron in the group that is more than capable to get us into nastier places our riding style as a group has migrated away from big hillclimbs and higher risk type riding to flatter more technical type riding in the trees and such to help lessen the risks. I think if these companies were really concerned about safety they would do what they could to get the cost down as much as possible so that more folks could afford the equipment
There was 3 places I mentioned in my first post where we ride without avy gear. Togwatee, snowys and big horns. Reason I even brought it up was because we see a lot of people in the parking lots, lodges leaving on there sleds without backpacks and their shovels strapped to the tunnel. We can't be the only ones at those places riding without.
http://jhavalanche.org/areaFatalities
According to this. 5 killed in a avalanche in togwatee over the last 30 years. 3 in the snowys. 0 in the big horns. That's on a snowmobile, not including skiing. It just doesn't seem like big avy territory. Now if we were to go to Cooke where there seems to be an avalanche death every week you can be guaranteed we would have em. But we don't go to Cooke cause of that reason alone.
My question is how many were dug out because they had the gear that otherwise would have added to these totals?
Seedie
http://jhavalanche.org/areaFatalities
According to this. 5 killed in a avalanche in togwatee over the last 30 years. 3 in the snowys. 0 in the big horns. That's on a snowmobile, not including skiing. It just doesn't seem like big avy territory. Now if we were to go to Cooke where there seems to be an avalanche death every week you can be guaranteed we would have em. But we don't go to Cooke cause of that reason alone.
My question is how many were dug out because they had the gear that otherwise would have added to these totals?
Seedie
Dale, just because you don't understand, it doesn't make us wrong.
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I believe that's the point, just because we don't do as you folks do that doesn't make us wrong either. I understand perfectly, I think the misunderstanding comes from those who jumped on here bashing us that choose not to use avy gear. The places we ride and our style of riding hasn't warranted it. Can something bad happen? Yes, it can. But bad things can happen when all geared up also.
On another note, there have been quite a few remarks on here about me and others like me being so against avy gear. Just to clear that up, I haven't said I was against having the gear, not once did I say it didn't have a place or a purpose. You can't tell me that the risks are the same for the rider that is out climbing the chutes in avalanche terrain compared to the guy playing around in the parking lot. Extreme comparison I know, so please don't jump on here picking what I have to say apart because you think you know what's best. You know what's best for you and the people you ride with.
The question was asked who doesn't ride with avy gear, pretty simple yes or no question. I don't believe it had to turn into a, "well if you don't have it you ain't riding with me" or a general feeling that because a person chooses to modify or limit the places they ride therefore reducing the risk then they are wrong if they don't use the gear.
Once again before ya get your panties all in a bunch I'm not against avy gear and because my style of riding could very well change in the future and the places I might put myself into increases the risk I have been looking into the gear. But I sure as heck am not going to judge or try to tell someone else what they should do.
The guy asked who "doesn't", dear sir, myself and the group that I ride with do not ride with avy gear, we try to minimize our risk by choosing where we ride.
Yes we know there are still some risks and we accept them. Just because you strap on the gear doesn't mean the risks go away, but i digress that topic has already been visted.
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Well I must admit you caught me being hypocritical here as my answer to most of the questions is no. But still I don't get it. These things are so easy to bring along. And I'm very aware of risks. I rode bulls for 11 years. I don't think anyone would disagree that it's a dangerous sport but we did everything we could to minimize the risk. Wrecks still happen. Lots. But we do all we can to minimize those risks.
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Do I need to carry it....probably not, I try to avoid those kind of places, plenty of safe areas to play in and I'm not really a hill climber, find it kind of boring to climb bare hills
do I carry the gear....yup 99% of the time, just habit and it doesn't weigh much and does not hinder me in any way so why not, never know when a friend will do something stupid or some other group in the area will need help, I would rather have the gear and be able to help than stand around with no idea how to help. and if I ever get buried at least I should be easier for my friends to find so they can get back to the bar quicker and have some rum for me.
I'm talking about beacon, probe and shovel,that stuff is easy to carry and cheap really, I have tried Avy packs and sold them, and my new sled came with a very nice BCA vest/Avy pack that I just sold, I just don't feel like I ride in areas I need that and wonder if I would pull them soon enough to help anyways
do I carry the gear....yup 99% of the time, just habit and it doesn't weigh much and does not hinder me in any way so why not, never know when a friend will do something stupid or some other group in the area will need help, I would rather have the gear and be able to help than stand around with no idea how to help. and if I ever get buried at least I should be easier for my friends to find so they can get back to the bar quicker and have some rum for me.
I'm talking about beacon, probe and shovel,that stuff is easy to carry and cheap really, I have tried Avy packs and sold them, and my new sled came with a very nice BCA vest/Avy pack that I just sold, I just don't feel like I ride in areas I need that and wonder if I would pull them soon enough to help anyways
Sorry if you don't understand. I really am. I wish you well.
Asking all people in the riding group to have equipment is NOT about arrogance or thinking I'm a god or whatever.
It's simple... No matter where i ride or how safe i think an area is I choose to be more educated, informed and prepared of "avalanche" so the unthinkable lessens my chances of being involved in a horrible situation or otherwise.
MANY MANY avalanche reports have recorded the report "I've never seen this area slide before. We never thought it could and have never heard of it sliding".
If people don't think an avalanche can happen to them, go back to the first page and watch the video of the ROAD BANK burying a guy. IT CAN HAPPEN ANYWHERE.
So, believing " it can't happen to me" isn't only foolish...but it IS wrong.
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