Who doesn't use avalanche gear.

[Scott]

I think it boils down to this.... If you have to ask, then YES you should have avy gear.

What's your life worth? Of course our lives are worth 200-300$. Yes we can afford it. That is a pretty easy statement to make. But 200-300$ is still not chump change. So how do you convince someone that's been out there countless times to spend that kind of money on a beacon. Because a Beacon seems like it's pretty simple technology for 2015. Yet it cost $300. It sends a single out, it receives a single in. $300 bucks. Meanwhile my new smartphone costs $500. It seems like a product that plays on your fears. Then you have guys that took a class, spent $300 bucks and now they're experts telling you what to do. That's the feed back I'm getting from one of my friends.

Honestly he's got a very good point. Why aren't these beacons $50. The technology is so simple for 2015. They should be so cheap that they throw it in with every mountain sled purchase. Then we wouldn't even be having this discussion.



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WOW. LMAO.
THAT'S a weak one.
Very weak.

That's like the dumb blonde who tells the Ford mechanic "You buy a ford shirt, get certified and work on them for 20 years and suddenly you think you're a Ford expert?"

Your friend knows NONE OF US.
Knows nothing of our own personal knowledge and experience.
That is just an avoidance statement. He's making excuses.

The last 14 years I've spend a full day in a classroom and then two days in an avalanche pit every year...of which knowledge is completely outweighed by a couple and a half decades of full backcountry mountain riding. I have some snow science experience. There are bachelor degree programs in snow science. That's who my avalanche instructors are.

I've lived and ridden in the mountains my whole life.

Am I an expert? Heck no.
But guess what, at least I'm open to learning. Your buddies won't step up to the challenge of learning something new.

If they think they know more than us, have them out their money where their mouth is. Take the class. Then come back and tell us there is nothing left to learn.

 

[dootime3]

I think it boils down to this.... If you have to ask, then YES you should have avy gear.




WOW. LMAO.
THAT'S a weak one.
Very weak.

That's like the dumb blonde who tells the Ford mechanic "You buy a ford shirt, get certified and work on them for 20 years and suddenly you think you're a Ford expert?"

Your friend knows NONE OF US.
Knows nothing of our own personal knowledge and experience.
That is just an avoidance statement. He's making excuses.

The last 14 years I've spend a full day in a classroom and then two days in an avalanche pit every year...of which knowledge is completely outweighed by a couple and a half decades of full backcountry mountain riding. I have some snow science experience. There are bachelor degree programs in snow science. That's who my avalanche instructors are.

I've lived and ridden in the mountains my whole life.

Am I an expert? Heck no.
But guess what, at least I'm open to learning. Your buddies won't step up to the challenge of learning something new.

If they think they know more than us, have them out their money where their mouth is. Take the class. Then come back and tell us there is nothing left to learn.

Never said that we knew more than anybody else. Just trying to sort out all the information. If boondocker97 figures are even close. 1/18000 odds of dying in an avalanche in a year. 1/1000 in 30-40 years of riding. You have a 1/77 chance of dying in a car accident. So going by that information I'd be safer riding my snowmobile with no beacon than actually driving my pickup to the mountain. So the comments about "get the gear or don't ride" don't hold up all that well. Not to mention the implied (you guys are dumb, don't know what you are doing) attitude i m getting from some commenters.



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[ullose272]

Seem like this guy is just looking for justification for not wearing av gear.

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[w2bridin]

Our group had the same attitude. We only made a trip maybe 2 per year and it will never happen to us. Well it did and I lost my best friend in 2003 almost quit sledding because I saw what it did to our familys...actually most of the people in our town . A couple years later bought all avy gear took some classes and started going again against a lot of peoples wishes. We try play it very safe with our fingers crossed because when it happens it will wreck your life for a long time. I KNOW!!!

The worst part is we had rented beacons that day. Never tried them out before. I located him right away but the snow setup like concrete with no shovel I tried digging by hand and it tore the gloves right off my fingers I was down to bare hands in no time. Luckily some guys came by with shovels but it was too late. Uff I still think about that day almost daily about how it could have been done differently and never happened. So I guess what I am saying you just don't need the beacon get GOOD shovels and probes. You don't want to waste 1 second when the time comes for you to pull off a miracle.

 

[CO Powder]

It amazes me that some of you can overcome the fear to even get on a sled with all these crazy stories. There are lots of things in life that are dangerous. I see more Harleys splattered on the mountain roads than I have ever heard of sledders dead from avalanches. MOST things in life have greater exposure to death that mountain riding.


The notion that you will not ride with people who do not have the gear you think they should have because it puts YOU at risk... tells me all I need to know about how and where you like to ride, it would be a welcome parting.


I still say that having the knowledge, without the fear clearly instilled in some of you, and will power to avoid bad places is 100 times more important than the gear that may or may not do you any good. Too many people think the gear will keep them safe. I think that is a lie.

 

[GoBigParts]

Mike Duffy's class was an eye opener. He does a good job of explaining what to look for and illustrations to go with it.

 

[Bcorn]

Mike Duffy's class was an eye opener. He does a good job of explaining what to look for and illustrations to go with it.

Ditto!

 

[Scott]

It amazes me that some of you can overcome the fear to even get on a sled with all these crazy stories. There are lots of things in life that are dangerous. I see more Harleys splattered on the mountain roads than I have ever heard of sledders dead from avalanches. MOST things in life have greater exposure to death that mountain riding.


The notion that you will not ride with people who do not have the gear you think they should have because it puts YOU at risk... tells me all I need to know about how and where you like to ride, it would be a welcome parting.


I still say that having the knowledge, without the fear clearly instilled in some of you, and will power to avoid bad places is 100 times more important than the gear that may or may not do you any good. Too many people think the gear will keep them safe. I think that is a lie.

That's the incorrect assumption that so many people make. You don't have to be in the big country for an avy to strike. They can happen anywhere... which is what the original posters friends are having a hard time grasping.

We wear them everywhere, whether we are going into big country or riding groomed trails with the kids, they are required.

 

[revrider07]

I'm with co powder on this topic you need to make smart choices while riding and not depend on the latest gear and say this will keep me safe. The newest fatalitie in Cooke should speak volumes. Gear does save some lives but when poor choices are made there are consequences. This will further add to the closing of sledding in Cooke city.

 

[w2bridin]

It seems to me the more they move the line in the more of this will happen. I have been there several times during a nice foot of snowfall and within a day or two all the safe stuff is chewed up pushing people to ride in places they probably wouldn't normally just to find fresh snow. Maybe I a wrong?

 

[longtrack156]

I saw some statistics here a few years ago.

The first one was that 95% of avalanche victims had the gear and training.

The second one was local, (BCSF), only 30% of BC sledders have avalanche gear.

I have been sledding for 49 years and have never seen an avalanche.

Not going to worry about it now because I ride alone mostly now, all my friends have quit riding.

 

[Scott]

Having avy gear doesn't prevent avalanches. It's not a get out of jail free card.

Having gear can prevent circumstances from being worse. It aids in recovery.

Smart choices is the BEST solution.
Taking classes, gaining knowledge/awareness and having gear is PART of the smart choice matrix.

If a human is involved in an avalanche a mistake was made.

Choices for going out:
1) stay home
2) go out, understand conditions but make careful and informed choices.
3) ignore conditions and go anyway

 

[snowmobiler]

#1.

 

[turbo800rmk]

I guess if you don't value your life and can't afford the few hundred bucks for Avy gear then you do not need it

But a very foolish decision

 

[Long Gone]

For those of you who choose not to wear avalanche safety gear:

1. Please place a large banner on your vehicle in the parking lot to alert us that you choose not to wear the suggested gear.
2. Put a large 10' orange safety flag on your sled.
3. Place pink flag in a safe place where you are playing.

The reason for these items is so that we can identify those who dont want any help when tragedy strikes. If you have these 3 cheap items (all three can be purchased for less than the $50 requested buget) in place, we will continue with our day rather than come help when we see trouble happen.

The most disheartening sight is to see search and rescue vehicles at the parking lot or on the way to the parking lot, knowing full well that there are some folks who do not care to help themselves.

I am fine with your decision to ride without safety gear, just dont come to my back yard and do it. We do care about you even if we dont know who you are.

 

[James T Kirk]

It amazes me that some of you can overcome the fear to even get on a sled with all these crazy stories. There are lots of things in life that are dangerous. I see more Harleys splattered on the mountain roads than I have ever heard of sledders dead from avalanches. MOST things in life have greater exposure to death that mountain riding.


The notion that you will not ride with people who do not have the gear you think they should have because it puts YOU at risk... tells me all I need to know about how and where you like to ride, it would be a welcome parting.


I still say that having the knowledge, without the fear clearly instilled in some of you, and will power to avoid bad places is 100 times more important than the gear that may or may not do you any good. Too many people think the gear will keep them safe. I think that is a lie.

If you actually knew what you were doing in avalanche terrain you would know that there is nothing more dangerous than someone who thinks they know all there is to know...

 

[Xrider]

Well I'd suggest getting a beacon, a few hundred bucks. Then at least you'd have that and a shovel, gotta have a shovel anyway for stucks.

 

[cmxuser]

This is kind of like the seat belt issue, a bunch of people trying to tell some other people how to live their life. How about this if the snowmobile manufacturers cared why not include the gear when you bought the sled, I mean after all ya pay 14000 for a sled now days. I'm really all for av gear but number 1 I ain't gonna tell anyone they have to or should have it. And back to the cost of said equipment if the av gear manufacturers gave a care for you then the equipment would be more affordable. And before some whiney *** comes along spouting stuff like you can afford a 14000 dollar sled you should be able to afford the exorbitant amount needed for the av gear, well my response would be I busted my *** all summer just to get to the point that I could buy the sled. Been riding 40 some years and yes the av gear is on the list but I'm not going to stop riding just because I don't have it. Oh here's an after thought, what the hell would you guys done 20 years ago when we didn't even know what av gear was. Well enough of that just my 2 cents.

 

[longlugs]

This is kind of like the seat belt issue, a bunch of people trying to tell some other people how to live their life.

No, I think most posters are trying to simply answer the OP's initial question and state their philosophy on avy gear.

I participate in dangerous sports - auto racing, snowmobiling, dirt biking to name a few. And I choose to incorporate the latest safety technology to increase my odds of surviving an accident.

Yes, I also choose to wear a seat belt in an auto, helmet on a bike, don't smoke and keep my weight in check - my choices. Do what you want.

Oh here's an after thought, what the hell would you guys done 20 years ago when we didn't even know what av gear was. Well enough of that just my 2 cents.

The increases in snowmobile avy deaths is in direct correlation to newer snowmobile technology. Sleds of the mid-90's couldn't touch the terrain of today's sleds. That's like asking a NASCAR driver of today why he has a roll cage, six-point harness, fire suppression and a HANS device when drivers of past years wore a helmet and seat belt.

I'm sure I just wasted 5 minutes of my life on this post.

 

[OrangeKowJumper]

My question to the guys who don't carry-at the bare minimum- a beacon and you actually do have a slide catch someone in your group, or you come up on another group that had someone buried .. .and you gotta fumble around searching blind because your too damn smart or intelligent or strong or brave or macho or poor or disorganized or don't ride there in those conditions . . ...when that happens how ya gonna feel? ...all the while the person buried is wishing everybody on the frikken mountain had a beacon and was looking for him. .or her..