What's so good about 4-Stroke Mountain Sleds??

[mtnmodviper]

Stay away from the 4-strokes!!!

Please! If you are currently riding a 2-stroke, please don't sell it and buy a turbo yamaha. I've been the black sheep in my area for years because I ride modded yamahas. I like being the black sheep riding my "boat anchor", "heavy pig", "trail sled with a long track", "yamaha ha ha", etc. It's no fun when everyone rides the same sled!!! Please! I beg you! Stay away from the 4-strokes! They have too much power when turbo'd and I'd hate to see people getting hurt.
They are also too reliable and could cause guys to get laid off from the two-stroke service departments as well as take away from the two stroke aftermarket guys. This could have a trickle down effect too on the entire economy! Don't do it!
Remember all the times you've made fun of Yamaha's!
I ride a T-nytro, and believe me! You don't need one!

 

[NOSZED]

Seem to remember a thread about fairview shootout last year where the highest 4 stroke turbo was fourth with 2 stroke turbos in second and third and a tripple 2 stroke on nitrous in first. Also tripple on nitrous was first in the fernie snow drags last year so i guess that is confirmation that it happens

Come on now mikey, thats on the flat ground,we drive there not play there.

 

[Braaap12]

I do like the Yamaha's for sure but when I was looking for a new sled the guy at the yami dealer even rode an M8, I just didn't want to deal with the weight and can't afford a turbo, you know what they say about turbo's " If you see a $100 on fire and go to put it out you can't afford a turbo...) I do hate smelling like 2 stroke all the time tho...

 

[Transporter]

Looks like the Yamaha's will have some direct competition in the mountains next year from Ski-Doo. There are pics of a 154" 4-stroker on the ski-doo forum.

My first question is this, how big could the market for 4-stroke mountain sleds possibly be?? In my opinion, the 4-stroke mountain sleds, at least the yamaha's and I am guessing the ski-doo as well, are not even mountain sleds until the owner puts at least another $6000-$10,000 into it. Turbo, new tunnel, skis, new rear suspension, track, etc. The number of snowmobilers that are able and willing to do that is relatively small. I have seen a stock Apex run in the mountains and it was pathetic, it couldn't climb and couldn't boondock, so now what you basically have is a long tracked trail sled.

My next question is for the people on here that own a 4-stroke turbo. How much fun is it to ride your sled with a bunch guys that don't own a turbo?? IMO, most of the fun I have riding comes from the competition aspect, and there really isn't any when comparing say an XP to a Nytro turbo. So now to have a lot of fun on one of these, you need a couple of your buddies to be able to afford a $20,000 snowmobile as well. The market seems to be getting smaller..

Next, I feel like the turbo 4's are pretty one dimensional snowmobiles, great for climbing the biggest hills you have the guts to attempt, and that's about it. I rode a turbo Nytro a couple weeks ago and it was a blast once I got it pointed straight up the hill, but trying to turn that thing to go uphill was quite the ordeal. If given the choice between the Turbo Nytro and any 800 class 2-stroke, I'd take the 2-stroke any day.

So, what is the big attraction to the 4-strokes? I just can't see it.

LOL, Have you ever seen guys like Irmen and Climbmax ride their heavy fourstrokes.Believe me they can throw those machines around any direction they want and do it at superfast rates of speed.Anyone can buy a T-yamaha but you have to learn to ride it good and most guys arent near as good as they would like to think.Heck isnt Climbmax like 70 years old he makes it look easy.

 

[JPM]

Fairview Flat NOT

Come on now mikey, thats on the flat ground,we drive there not play there.

I am not talking about fairview alberta but fairview utah at the oldest shootout.

 

[SLY]

Turbo's are best just for older guys. Our reaction times are so slow once we get past 50 that the turbo with all that lag gives us time to think where we are going. Also with all the weight it gives us a much nicer ride like an older heavier vehicle. The other thing is, we don't like to turn and everyone knows they are just point and shoot

 

[STRAYPUSSY]

Is it possible for a 2 stroke non turbo to give a yammi turbo a go?

Hey kevin why dont you come to BIS and try and follow us for a bit!!

 

[zebiraross]

Yawn....What are we talking about again?

 

[JSun]

I think the manufacturers are taking the easy way out. One of the 4 has a direct injected 2-stroke right now. Hopefully in '10 we will see a few more. I think that is the way to go in the mountains. Clean, dependable, turboable (if thats a word) for the guys that want to, and most importantly, light. For every 10 lbs a company figures out how take off its 4-stroke model, it can take that same 10 lbs off a 2-stroke that is already 60+ lbs lighter. The durability of a 2-stroke will probably never equal that of a 4 stroke either so yes, each does have its advantage.

But, from what I have read and experienced in the mountains, weight is everything. That is why I just can't see the market for these 130hp 4-stroke mountain sleds. I think one guy that has responded said that he rides a STOCK 4-stroke.

I am sure you turbo guys wouldn't trade them for the world, but I prefer to push my sled to the limit when riding, not have my sled push me. Now I am sure there are quite a few of you that do have the skill to push these sleds to the limit, I don't, and I just feel like I like it better when I have to work to get up a hill, rather than push the throttle, essentially buying my way to places few men in the history of the world have ever set foot. It just seems to me like riding a turbo would take a lot of the satisfaction and fun out of riding because it would eliminate the challenge. The most fun sled I have ever owned was my 1972 Elan becuase going anywhere was tough.

Again, just my opinion...

 

[verticallydefiant]

Stock.?.

What would you consider stock? I put on a 153" track I bought here in the forums, and I put a Uni filter on it instead of the factory paper unit. Other than that she's right from the factory and YES that is with a turbo!

I understand the new Cat turbo can achieve hellacious horsepower with a few computer tweaks.. It may not be in a mountain sled chasis this year, will see if they can put 2 & 2 together???

In 1978 I loved my new KX125 dirtbike, In 1984 I said they can't build a bike better than my new XR500R, in '08 there's not one pro racer in motocross that rides a 2-stroke!

In 1994 we all knew snowmachines couldn't get any better than what we could buy that year; Just imagine what will all "know" in the near future...

 

[modsledr]

Just a little bit of a different perspective...when I got into sledding in 2000/2001, I came from the road racing world where in the early 90's everything except F2 had transitioned to 4 strokes (ahead of the dirt bikes) and lap times continued to drop year after year.

I said it then and I stick by it now...once the mfg make a competitive 4 stroke, the 2 stroke will be gone. I know the 2 stroke die hards will fight it till the end but it is innevitable.

When the Nytro came out, everybody sat up a paid attention, because it was the first serious effort to produce a competitive 4 stroke at a reasonable weight. Once the aftemarket guys got ahold of it, they got it to within about 50-70 lbs of the lightest 2 stroke. Add a little boost and you've got a sled that a few years ago a lot of you were saying you'ld run out and buy if it were available (remember? 180-200 hp, 525-550 dry wt?)

Hats off to Ski Doo for raising the bar on light weight...time will tell if their 4 stroke will compete, but it is good to see the competition.

A lot of the anti-turbo guys are only thinking about the 300 hp climbing sleds they see in vids. THere are a LOT of us that have mildly boosted Nytros, with all the lightweight goodies, that will handle any boondocking, tree riding, whatever you want to throw at us. Turn Key. Yes, some $ has to be spent from stock, but the smile on my face is worth every penny!!

 

[harrysmith500]

your mom

4 strokes are only better than one thing...

your mom....


4 strokes for life!!

Looks like the Yamaha's will have some direct competition in the mountains next year from Ski-Doo. There are pics of a 154" 4-stroker on the ski-doo forum.

My first question is this, how big could the market for 4-stroke mountain sleds possibly be?? In my opinion, the 4-stroke mountain sleds, at least the yamaha's and I am guessing the ski-doo as well, are not even mountain sleds until the owner puts at least another $6000-$10,000 into it. Turbo, new tunnel, skis, new rear suspension, track, etc. The number of snowmobilers that are able and willing to do that is relatively small. I have seen a stock Apex run in the mountains and it was pathetic, it couldn't climb and couldn't boondock, so now what you basically have is a long tracked trail sled.

My next question is for the people on here that own a 4-stroke turbo. How much fun is it to ride your sled with a bunch guys that don't own a turbo?? IMO, most of the fun I have riding comes from the competition aspect, and there really isn't any when comparing say an XP to a Nytro turbo. So now to have a lot of fun on one of these, you need a couple of your buddies to be able to afford a $20,000 snowmobile as well. The market seems to be getting smaller..

Next, I feel like the turbo 4's are pretty one dimensional snowmobiles, great for climbing the biggest hills you have the guts to attempt, and that's about it. I rode a turbo Nytro a couple weeks ago and it was a blast once I got it pointed straight up the hill, but trying to turn that thing to go uphill was quite the ordeal. If given the choice between the Turbo Nytro and any 800 class 2-stroke, I'd take the 2-stroke any day.

So, what is the big attraction to the 4-strokes? I just can't see it.

 

[IceCap]

Remember if you got the H.P. the amount of throttle applied is directly proportional to the weight of the sled.
375 lb sled with only 70 hp will not float or get the nose out of the powder.
700 lb sled with 300 hp will float and dance and feel light and the nose is now in the air.

 

[Original Tetonice]

By 3 pm after riding my TApex my arms feel tired......By 3 pm after riding my XP my arms feel fine.

A friend of mine is in the Marines and he tells me all about carrying around his 65# backpack all day. And i reply that it sound like riding a 600# 4 stroke all day. All joking aside weight is weight and there NO getting around it.

PS: Yammie 4 bangers are great sleds.

OT

 

[spoon]

Gotta agree that the turbo 4 strokes are great (I have a mildly boosted Nytro) but the kind of riding I do makes me leave it on the truck and jump on the T12 (not just for the power) because I can boondock it through the trees and come home not looking to instantly jump in the hot tub to relieve my aching muscles. Granted if I had only the Nytro to choose from it would be easy to get used to and I might start to look like governor terminator used to. Not to mention the lack of snow we have this year makes having a 440 look like fun again.

 

[drinkwyo]

By 3 pm after riding my TApex my arms feel tired......By 3 pm after riding my XP my arms feel fine.

A friend of mine is in the Marines and he tells me all about carrying around his 65# backpack all day. And i reply that it sound like riding a 600# 4 stroke all day. All joking aside weight is weight and there NO getting around it.

PS: Yammie 4 bangers are great sleds.

OT

OT, arent you like 87 years old. Your arms would be tired pulling over a 120. lol dont fool yourself old man, they feel pretty light with 300 horsies

 

[Himark]

OT, arent you like 87 years old. Your arms would be tired pulling over a 120

LMAO...gooder! I am sure he is a bit older but as we get older you ride smarter and still appear to be riding harder. This would be what he is referring to.

 

[drinkwyo]

its all good

 

[Ken Climb]

Jasun: I think he's tired of getting spanked in the tree's and while climbing!

Spoon: Crank the boost on that nytro, there's not a 1200m turbo out there that will touch it. Good thing your a mechanic.....i hear you have to be if you ride a turbo twostroke.

 

[JSun]

To clarify, by STOCK I mean everything is how it came from the dealer, besides clutching and gearing. That's what I view as STOCK, and I am sure others have their own opinions....