J
What's it take to make a 15 handle?
- Thread starter WyoBoy1000
- Start date
Doesn't matter, your asking the wrong question.
I want a sled that works at its full potential. There is nothing about this stocker suspension that is close.
Maybe ask yourself, I wonder what I'm missing out on. Then try it and take your game to a new level
I want a sled that works at its full potential. There is nothing about this stocker suspension that is close.
Maybe ask yourself, I wonder what I'm missing out on. Then try it and take your game to a new level
Here are my thoughts for what it's worth.
If you like your Arctic Cat and want to make your PRO handle the same I'm not sure that will be possible. People like different things just because the PRO is the best selling mountain sled on the market doesn't mean everyone will like them Doo, Cat, Yamaha sell plenty of sleds too. There was even a guy on here recently that prefers a Yamaha four stroke to a PRO and says he can outride most PRO guys boon docking.
To change the way a PRO handles there really are not that many options these are the ones I can think of there are probably a few more.
1) adjust the springs on the stock setup (I know you've done this)
2) revalve stock shocks
3) add triple rate springs
4) add aftermarket shocks Raptor, Zbroz, Fox
5) Buy aftermarket skid Timbersled, Kmod
6) Remove sway bars, change A arms
7) adjust limiter strap (PRO has no adjustment but some guys drill a hole?)
remember suspension setup is very subjective what you might think is the worst handling set up there is might be another guys dream ride.
Lastly if your size is far outside of the norm either very big or very small you probably need to call one of the custom shocks manufacturers.
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Well that should keep this thread going. Might take $15,000 to $20,000 if he has to buy an Axys to try to make it handle like a Cat lol.
Lead is cheap.
Pack some under the hood.
Put a couple stick on hood scoops on the sidepanels.
So you can get snow on the clutches.
Should only be $150-200.
It's gonna be a long summer.
What's the point of this rhetoric - either you got the dough and ambition to buy the different top level sleds, ride them extensively, compare them and mod them. Or you ride with dudes who do, and they let you try their sleds.
Otherwise, you buy what you think will best work with your budget, and roll the dice.
Maybe 2, 3, 5%? of the riders out there can really out ride a stock sled on any given day. If you are one of them, god bless you, but then you don't need all the fixes. You're that good. The rest of us are looking for some challenging fun once or twice a week, if we're really lucky.
What's the point of this rhetoric - either you got the dough and ambition to buy the different top level sleds, ride them extensively, compare them and mod them. Or you ride with dudes who do, and they let you try their sleds.
Otherwise, you buy what you think will best work with your budget, and roll the dice.
Maybe 2, 3, 5%? of the riders out there can really out ride a stock sled on any given day. If you are one of them, god bless you, but then you don't need all the fixes. You're that good. The rest of us are looking for some challenging fun once or twice a week, if we're really lucky.
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I have not checked the pressure on the hill. I set the shocks up to where the guys at Carl's Cycle told me to set them and have been very happy. I usually check/set the shock pressure in my garage once or twice in the beginning of the season and then ride it. That has worked for me..... I tend to ride very similar elevations throughout the year and not too many miles per year ( I wish I could put a lot more miles on
) but 600 - 800 miles is about all I seem to get in a year.Couldn't agree more. I ride a 600 Pro with a 660 kit, triple rate springs, and a can. so far i have been able to go anywhere my riding buddies have with 800 PRO's or Ski Doos no Arctic Cats in our group except one year but that guy switched to PRO. The funny thing is I was able to go where they went before I added the 660 kit, can, and triple rate springs granted i'm not riding with Burandt or Wyoboy1000 but I still have a lot of fun.
I'm impatient and once I feel like I've got the goodie out of something its time for more. Based on my experience I would say I'm in that 2% so if anyone else wants to test that I would like to know for my own growth and advancement, not trying to say I'm the man I just like the push.
I'm also not trying to make the pro a cat, What I am saying is I've made the cat a great sled. Now I want to see what the pro has to offer, make sense. So now I'm going to upgrade the 16 cat because I think the axys is going to rock. But even on the axys I can guaranty I will get impatient and be looking for ways to be even better. That's kinda the fun part for me. Ive already had the turbo with suspension that went stupid places and advanced my riding level way beyond where it was. So then I went to a shorter track NA sled and still rode with all the other guys and made lines they wouldn't follow. So to just go buy the 60k sled would be boring to me.
Now that I am close to burandt I look forward to riding with them, hence one reason to have the pro working the way I think it should. I'm just having fun guys.
I'm also not trying to make the pro a cat, What I am saying is I've made the cat a great sled. Now I want to see what the pro has to offer, make sense. So now I'm going to upgrade the 16 cat because I think the axys is going to rock. But even on the axys I can guaranty I will get impatient and be looking for ways to be even better. That's kinda the fun part for me. Ive already had the turbo with suspension that went stupid places and advanced my riding level way beyond where it was. So then I went to a shorter track NA sled and still rode with all the other guys and made lines they wouldn't follow. So to just go buy the 60k sled would be boring to me.
Now that I am close to burandt I look forward to riding with them, hence one reason to have the pro working the way I think it should. I'm just having fun guys.
I for one have been following this thread intently but haven't learned much on how to change or improve the way a PRO handles outside of the things I mentioned but I have definitely learned how good of a rider Wyoboy 1000 is so if you do get the PRO set to your liking let us know what you did or even things you tried that didn't work.
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geo
Well-known member
Cat and Pro rear suspensions are pretty much the same thing, a Holz, just tweeks in mounting and rails and Poo nailed it.
If you had a full on Holz on your 1000 Wyo, then you felt the "just change valving or shocks" already. Good suspension but a bit 2D. Good suspension unless you like to go big. Big in air, or straight up slope, or HP, or snowcross.
I really liked (for the cost) the TS rear arm kit and finished it with a Flt 3 in the middle to use the extra travel available. With infinite adjustability of the EVO's for spring and a bit of tweeking on the coupling it works great everywhere. And, It took weight off which is real hard to do on these Pros.
None of this was necessary because I had great fun on the stock components after revalve and springs but I couldn't keep up on the rebuilds on the WE's.
The front end is a bit 2D too IMO. As an ex M rider I was used to a less stable front suspention and actually enjoyed it. IMO I like it without the sway bar (against popular opinion) but it took triple rates to get what I wanted after revalve.
EVO 3's took the fat off again and are a superior shock to anything from the Float lineup previous IMO. Especially the bleed shim set-up for the fronts. Super slippery and supple like springs.
Anything can be improved, if you want. Is it necessary? Nah, just nicer, but the stock Pro is plenty good enough for the many. Some of the many though, have experienced a little closer to perfection so spend the coin to get it again. Part of it is not everyone is 165lbs or whatever the stock suspension is set for. Part of it is it costs less to have 5 shims in the valves over 9 or 10.
I'm not a top tier rider but appreciate good suspension as much as a fresh day. Part of the old school in me from when we didn't get these great sleds off the floor like today.
Makes all day easier.
If you had a full on Holz on your 1000 Wyo, then you felt the "just change valving or shocks" already. Good suspension but a bit 2D. Good suspension unless you like to go big. Big in air, or straight up slope, or HP, or snowcross.
I really liked (for the cost) the TS rear arm kit and finished it with a Flt 3 in the middle to use the extra travel available. With infinite adjustability of the EVO's for spring and a bit of tweeking on the coupling it works great everywhere. And, It took weight off which is real hard to do on these Pros.
None of this was necessary because I had great fun on the stock components after revalve and springs but I couldn't keep up on the rebuilds on the WE's.
The front end is a bit 2D too IMO. As an ex M rider I was used to a less stable front suspention and actually enjoyed it. IMO I like it without the sway bar (against popular opinion) but it took triple rates to get what I wanted after revalve.
EVO 3's took the fat off again and are a superior shock to anything from the Float lineup previous IMO. Especially the bleed shim set-up for the fronts. Super slippery and supple like springs.
Anything can be improved, if you want. Is it necessary? Nah, just nicer, but the stock Pro is plenty good enough for the many. Some of the many though, have experienced a little closer to perfection so spend the coin to get it again. Part of it is not everyone is 165lbs or whatever the stock suspension is set for. Part of it is it costs less to have 5 shims in the valves over 9 or 10.
I'm not a top tier rider but appreciate good suspension as much as a fresh day. Part of the old school in me from when we didn't get these great sleds off the floor like today.
Makes all day easier.
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J
JJ_0909
ACCOUNT CLOSED
I'm sure you are really good - but for a newer rider like me, I'd love to see you put together some sort of video. Not only would it be rad to see but it may help guys on this forum help you setup your sled to your liking. GoPro + multiple mounts + some time in the cutting bay would be well worth your time it sounds like...
I have an 11 assault ( always narrowed to RMK width) with high dollar x1 triple rates etc.I like the sled but always tuned for a better handling. then this year I got a great deal on a CMX titanium front end which I really like and then I broke a shock and could only get a set of float 2 shocks in time for my next ride. I cant believe how much better I like the "Old" floats and CMX maybe I just got lucky with the pressure but the ability to handle terrain and side hill vs the exit /zbrox set up I had is amazing. maybe its the fact it save a ton of weight who knows? but what a difference
Did you read my post? I said I was planning on doing what TRS suggested, the last post is in response to others that have responded since.
That and start building my 16 cat, then on to the Axys. Prob get a 163 and 155 3" and go from there. I'll let you know on the setup and what I think, but now I have my 16 and 14 back on the snow so until the axys I wont spend much time on the 15 pro. I doubt I will spend much time on the old pro.
Does that answer the question, I may also use my 14 to build a completely custom ???? can't explain it, we'll see.
If you paid attention to my post they are in response to others that keep trying to tell me adjusting the stock crap is all it needs? don't read into it as me saying I'm better than you. I do think I'm in the top percent but I don't know where you stand. So to the others that don't place themselves in that percent seem to be the ones that think the stock shocks are acceptable.
Make sense?
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rbanan
Well-known member
Front spring
Hi!
I've been trying to get my stock front shocks to work as well. Done revalving (stiffer) but i dont like the org spring. Do you guys think that a 7042195-293, red 90/180 spring would work? I have those at home so it's a "free" mod.
Any input on this?
Haven't messed with springs before...
Hi!
I've been trying to get my stock front shocks to work as well. Done revalving (stiffer) but i dont like the org spring. Do you guys think that a 7042195-293, red 90/180 spring would work? I have those at home so it's a "free" mod.
Any input on this?
Haven't messed with springs before...
J
Jaynelson
Well-known member
So conclusion of all this is to re-valve stock non-clicker WE's.
I have nowhere near the experience TRS has, so perhaps he has some insight on this. But IMO and experience, (geo also noted above), those shocks will not last long between rebuilds at all, if you ride aggressively. I would sell them while they're still good and put the $$ toward something else. Because if I was wearing them out in 1000 miles. I can't imagine they'd last long at allfor a 2%'er who is picky about shocks.
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Shocks are a maintenance item. They must be maintained and serviced same as your clutch, exhaust valves, chain case lube, fuel filter, belts and more. My sleds don't leave the shop, from new, with WE oil.
There are thousands of PROs out there since 2011 that have not had there shocks serviced. Shocks should be serviced, at a minimum, annually. Your riding style will dictate the service interval. I service my personal sleds shocks anywhere from 300-500 miles. If you are a savvy rider you will know when it's time, you will witness a change in RTS rebound first. You need to service all four shocks at the same time. I can't emphasize enough the WE shock oil is a very poor oil. If you service a Stock PRO WE shock with less than 100 miles on them you will find contaminated oil with a substantial amount of wear residue stacked up on the floating piston.
You will hear from dealers that you need to give your shocks a 300 mile break in interval. That's wrong, springs need a break-in period. Your stock WE shocks are toast at that mileage. You need good oil to start with. That is why I recommend Amsoil 5 weight. Look for a discussion on shock oils we did around a year ago. There is a thread pertaining to shock oils.
Geo, is correct, you must keep up with servicing your shocks if you want that ultimate reaction/ride from your suspension.
Now let's get to components. FOX, in my opinion, offers the best valve shims in the industry. When you replace the shim stack use FOX shims. Much of shock fade and poor performance has to do with valve shim burnout. The only size not available from FOX is the 1.20", you must purchase them from WE. In all reality, most FOX components will fit your WE. So why is a FOX shock superior to a WE?
We spend hundreds of dollars on aftermarket shocks, when in reality all we need is an affordable revalve. Now when you revalve, you must be honest with your tech, every discipline takes a different build spec. You can't take snow cross specs to the mountain or vice versa. You can build a happy medium, but if you want a boondock setup specify it.
Now onto "clicker" shocks. Let's be honest with ourselves. How many of you that have the clicker shocks know if they are compression or rebound adjustable? Do you adjust them for the ride in and out on the trail? Then adjust them for the days ride in the powder. I doubt it. I'll bet most "clicker" owners haven't touched them or adjusted the springs. No matter how you adjust the stock WE "clicker" you cannot slow the low speed rebound. The IFS shocks once loaded will unload you faster than you can compensate the action. Believe me, I've been there. As stated in another thread, I played with my "clickers" and tossed them for a set of my revalved mono tube WE. All is good now.
If your shocks are doing their job, the CG will be closer to the center of your sled. i.e.: over the front torque arm. If not your CG will be closer to the rear torque arm. Think of it this way, when you launch big air, do you personally move closer to the front torque arm for that flat landing or the rear torque arm?
OK, I need to get back to porting my weed eater.
There are thousands of PROs out there since 2011 that have not had there shocks serviced. Shocks should be serviced, at a minimum, annually. Your riding style will dictate the service interval. I service my personal sleds shocks anywhere from 300-500 miles. If you are a savvy rider you will know when it's time, you will witness a change in RTS rebound first. You need to service all four shocks at the same time. I can't emphasize enough the WE shock oil is a very poor oil. If you service a Stock PRO WE shock with less than 100 miles on them you will find contaminated oil with a substantial amount of wear residue stacked up on the floating piston.
You will hear from dealers that you need to give your shocks a 300 mile break in interval. That's wrong, springs need a break-in period. Your stock WE shocks are toast at that mileage. You need good oil to start with. That is why I recommend Amsoil 5 weight. Look for a discussion on shock oils we did around a year ago. There is a thread pertaining to shock oils.
Geo, is correct, you must keep up with servicing your shocks if you want that ultimate reaction/ride from your suspension.
Now let's get to components. FOX, in my opinion, offers the best valve shims in the industry. When you replace the shim stack use FOX shims. Much of shock fade and poor performance has to do with valve shim burnout. The only size not available from FOX is the 1.20", you must purchase them from WE. In all reality, most FOX components will fit your WE. So why is a FOX shock superior to a WE?
We spend hundreds of dollars on aftermarket shocks, when in reality all we need is an affordable revalve. Now when you revalve, you must be honest with your tech, every discipline takes a different build spec. You can't take snow cross specs to the mountain or vice versa. You can build a happy medium, but if you want a boondock setup specify it.
Now onto "clicker" shocks. Let's be honest with ourselves. How many of you that have the clicker shocks know if they are compression or rebound adjustable? Do you adjust them for the ride in and out on the trail? Then adjust them for the days ride in the powder. I doubt it. I'll bet most "clicker" owners haven't touched them or adjusted the springs. No matter how you adjust the stock WE "clicker" you cannot slow the low speed rebound. The IFS shocks once loaded will unload you faster than you can compensate the action. Believe me, I've been there. As stated in another thread, I played with my "clickers" and tossed them for a set of my revalved mono tube WE. All is good now.
If your shocks are doing their job, the CG will be closer to the center of your sled. i.e.: over the front torque arm. If not your CG will be closer to the rear torque arm. Think of it this way, when you launch big air, do you personally move closer to the front torque arm for that flat landing or the rear torque arm?
OK, I need to get back to porting my weed eater.
