what avalanche equipment to purchase?

[columbus]

I find it funny that some guy who names himself after an anti sledding mountaineering clothing company is on here preaching avalanche safety and admits that he rides with guys who do not carry probes and shovels. A beacon is useless if your buddy doesnt have a shovel. Do you actually think that if someone doesnt know that they need to carry a shovel that they would even know how to use their beacon?? It is really simple, beacon, shovel, probe, training and competant partners are the first priority when it comes to avy gear. They all have equal importance and rank higher then an ABS pack because not only can they save you but they give you the ability to save your friends or someone from another group who might be buried.

Saying that you think an ABS pack is a substitute for, not an addition to a beacon, shovel, probe and knowledge tells me one thing-you dont know the first thing about mountain travel and safety.

 

[Arcteryx]

Lmao!!

I find it funny that some guy who names himself after an anti sledding mountaineering clothing company is on here preaching avalanche safety and admits that he rides with guys who do not carry probes and shovels. A beacon is useless if your buddy doesnt have a shovel. Do you actually think that if someone doesnt know that they need to carry a shovel that they would even know how to use their beacon?? It is really simple, beacon, shovel, probe, training and competant partners are the first priority when it comes to avy gear. They all have equal importance and rank higher then an ABS pack because not only can they save you but they give you the ability to save your friends or someone from another group who might be buried.

Saying that you think an ABS pack is a substitute for, not an addition to a beacon, shovel, probe and knowledge tells me one thing-you dont know the first thing about mountain travel and safety.

OH MY HE//
COLUMBUS AND COBBYCAT, CAN YOU GUYS FREAKING READ? APPARENTLY NOT!!! If I had some paper and a box of crayons, I would draw it out for you 2 freaking geniuses.
I NEVER said the ABS was a replacement for the beacon (read posts #15, 32, 33, 35 and 37). I said if I had to prioritize I would put the ABS first, the beacon second. Because the ABS allows you to stay on top of the snow. Apparently you are not good with math either. If you were you would understand that an ABS gives you a better chance at survival than does a beacon. Read post #32 and then have someone that understands statistics explain it too you.
As far as your pi-us attitude of "I don't ride with guys that don't have the proper equipment". Do you have an ABS?? Do all of the guys you ride with have one??? If not, then by your reckoning none of you have any business riding or at least riding together. Cobby cat I think you said most in your group have ABS bags. I take it you will tell those who do not they are no longer permitted to ride with you??
I have a great group of friends and we have ridden together for what seems like forever. They are going to ride with me or without me, so not riding with them because they don't have the "proper gear" is asinine. Your telling these sad stories about a friend of a friend in a slide, how would I feel if my buddies got buried and I wasn't there to help dig them out because I decided to stop riding with them since they didn't have what I deemed the proper gear?? I would probably feel pretty bad, I'm guessing worse than you did.
And yes Columbus I have chosen my screen name after a company that makes mountaineering gear because I climb, not because I sled. They make great climbing gear. I am not aware of Arcteryx's official position on snowmobiling nor do I care. They are entitled to an opinion, I am entitled to choose the gear that I believe gives me the best chance of success, survival and comfort. I also sky dive, scuba dive, wakeboard, sky ski, ride street bikes, ride dirt bikes and a host of other activities. I have no idea what those companies think of sledding and again, I don't care.
Again, if you learn to read or find someone that knows how to read and let them read you my posts I never said the ABS was a substitute for a beacon. Remember that if you are not buried, you have probably just survived. If you are not buried you are much better able to help others that are buried or others that might be hurt. How does that sound for knowing just a little about "mountain safety" and common sense to boot.
I hope it snows soon. I can't believe I am so bored that I keep replying to this thread. But.. I guess I am that bored so if the next bone head will please step up we can continue the debate. Only this time please try to understand my position before bashing it

 

[columbus]

OH MY HE//
COLUMBUS AND COBBYCAT, CAN YOU GUYS FREAKING READ? APPARENTLY NOT!!! If I had some paper and a box of crayons, I would draw it out for you 2 freaking geniuses.
I NEVER said the ABS was a replacement for the beacon (read posts #15, 32, 33, 35 and 37). I said if I had to prioritize I would put the ABS first, the beacon second. Because the ABS allows you to stay on top of the snow. Apparently you are not good with math either. If you were you would understand that an ABS gives you a better chance at survival than does a beacon. Read post #32 and then have someone that understands statistics explain it too you.
As far as your pi-us attitude of "I don't ride with guys that don't have the proper equipment". Do you have an ABS?? Do all of the guys you ride with have one??? If not, then by your reckoning none of you have any business riding or at least riding together. Cobby cat I think you said most in your group have ABS bags. I take it you will tell those who do not they are no longer permitted to ride with you??
I have a great group of friends and we have ridden together for what seems like forever. They are going to ride with me or without me, so not riding with them because they don't have the "proper gear" is asinine. Your telling these sad stories about a friend of a friend in a slide, how would I feel if my buddies got buried and I wasn't there to help dig them out because I decided to stop riding with them since they didn't have what I deemed the proper gear?? I would probably feel pretty bad, I'm guessing worse than you did.
And yes Columbus I have chosen my screen name after a company that makes mountaineering gear because I climb, not because I sled. They make great climbing gear. I am not aware of Arcteryx's official position on snowmobiling nor do I care. They are entitled to an opinion, I am entitled to choose the gear that I believe gives me the best chance of success, survival and comfort. I also sky dive, scuba dive, wakeboard, sky ski, ride street bikes, ride dirt bikes and a host of other activities. I have no idea what those companies think of sledding and again, I don't care.
Again, if you learn to read or find someone that knows how to read and let them read you my posts I never said the ABS was a substitute for a beacon. Remember that if you are not buried, you have probably just survived. If you are not buried you are much better able to help others that are buried or others that might be hurt. How does that sound for knowing just a little about "mountain safety" and common sense to boot.
I hope it snows soon. I can't believe I am so bored that I keep replying to this thread. But.. I guess I am that bored so if the next bone head will please step up we can continue the debate. Only this time please try to understand my position before bashing it

When you say "If I had to prioritize I would put the ABS first..." it seems as if you are saying it is a replacement for a beacon. As for your buddies who ride with beacons but no shovels you should kick them in the nuts. They obviously dont care enough about your survival to put an extra 4 pounds in their packs. I have had friends killed in slides and I have dug people out of slides in my 15 year career as a professional big mountain skier. Everytime going into a situation you think you are prepared and you know what you are doing and then the mountains tell you that you dont know sh%$. Imagine what it will be like for your buddies to tell your family "sorry I couldnt save so-and-so, I was too lazy to carry an extra four pounds and too cheap to spend $150."

Weather or not everyone has an ABS is not as critical as you cannot save your buddies with an ABS. And the "if I am not buried then I can get to my buddies" argument is stupid because anyone with extensive backcountry experience knows that you NEVER expose more then one person to a slide path unless there is absolutely no other alternative. That is a rule to LIVE by.

 

[Arcteryx]

When you say "If I had to prioritize I would put the ABS first..." it seems as if you are saying it is a replacement for a beacon.

And the "if I am not buried then I can get to my buddies" argument is stupid because anyone with extensive backcountry experience knows that you NEVER expose more then one person to a slide path unless there is absolutely no other alternative. That is a rule to LIVE by.

If by my saying I would prioritize an ABS 1st and a beacon 2nd you ASSumed I was saying it was a replacement for an ABS, you were wrong. Reading and not assuming is also a rule to live by. The word replacement or any of its synonyms were not used.
Anyone with 15 years back country experience or "professional big mountain skier" would know that predicting every slide is NOT possible. So therefor there are times when more than 1 person will be exposed to a slide path. (By the way I started skiing in 1977 and my first sledding trip was in 1979).
Either way the argument that "if I am not buried, I can get to others" is freaking common sense. If your not buried you CAN get to others that are buried.....light bulb should be going off for you here.
So answer this one question, (I bet you avoid it instead of answer).
If you knew you would be in a slide tomorrow and had no way to avoid it but you were able to chose wether you would be wearing either a beacon OR an ABS which would you chose??? It doesn't take 15 years of back country experience to know what the best choice would be. That is if you want the best chances of living. Prepare for the worst, try for the best, a rule to LIVE by!
Have you ever wondered why the industry is heading to these packs in the first place?? Your logic is kind of like "forget putting airbags in my car, I'll just wear my seatbelt and then I won't get in any wrecks. Because after all, "I have 15 years driving experience and I would never expose myself to a possible wreck".
Please let it snow soon!!!

 

[DRAPE]

Popcorn anybody???

 

[DRAPE]

Seems to be a sensitive subject - especially for those who have had to recover bodies. Understandably so. Bottom line is you should really have it all - (IN NO PARTICULAR ORDER 4 hell sake) beacon, probe, shovel, pack and knowledge. Once you get a beacon, practice with it. Have someone go hide it and then go find it. Practice a multiple burial recovery effort. I like the parking lot idea.

 

[Snowjunky]

I like the way you think Drape. I am not as good with people as arc is. I said the same things earlier in this post and I gues it wasnt taken as well as any other opinion. I have 4 of the 5. I am undertrained with beacon use and am working on it. This year have 2 trips planned with nothing but Education on the agenda. However a beacon is a post avalanche tool. A bag is a proactive tool. Who here wants to argue which should be first. I know CPR in case I come upon an accident. But I also am a defensive driver. Which comes first. The bad part here is people dont like to hear a beacon isnt first. Hogwash. If your friends sons best friend was wearing a ABS pack would his chances of needing a beacon be better or worse. Answer that question honestly. People it is simple. Read my first post. Arcs words are clear if you stop trying to read your own agenda into it. Any firemen here want to argue that in any rescue the resuers safty comes first! Please dont read more into a priority statement. I wish there were statistics on beacon owners who couldnt find a buried partner if we marked the snow with an X. Maybe this statment will work better. Before you ride a snowmobile you should attend a avalanche awarness class AND buy a ABS pack beacon,shovel and probe. No what ifs. Now if I can have one I will take the ABS. Simple math. Documented by acredited agencies. Then I will buy beacon probe and shovel. For those here that want to police the world You may get your wish soon. As I said I THINK YOU NEED ALL 5. Read something into that. Read what ARC said Exact same thing. Save the what ifs for someone who stays at home. I need my meds now

 

[Snowjunky]

Columbus so what you are saying is
1) your perfect and never make mistakes
2) you know everything and can predict an avalanche
3) you dont need avalanche gear
4) more on 3 You say you never expose more than 1 WTF I thought education said never expose 1

What exactly do you want to argue here to reinforce your point. I am at a loss for words

Meds kicking in soon I hope

All this is for is when things go wrong. You ac t like it is for a sunday stroll in the park.

TRUE OR FALSE If I am in an avalanche I want to have the best odds of staying on top.

TRUE OR FALSE If my buddy is in an avalanche I want him to be buried so I have to use my probe beacon and shovel to dig him out

TrUE OR FALSE If there is a unforseen avalanche and my group is caught I dont want to see 95% of them on top when it stops marked by these great big orange bags

Never Never ride without a beacon cause your abs bag could just maybe get ripped in a tree and then the other bag might hit a rock

 

[Snowjunky]

Lots of butter Drape My cholesterol level is a bit low now

 

[columbus]

If by my saying I would prioritize an ABS 1st and a beacon 2nd you ASSumed I was saying it was a replacement for an ABS, you were wrong. Reading and not assuming is also a rule to live by. The word replacement or any of its synonyms were not used.
Anyone with 15 years back country experience or "professional big mountain skier" would know that predicting every slide is NOT possible. So therefor there are times when more than 1 person will be exposed to a slide path. (By the way I started skiing in 1977 and my first sledding trip was in 1979).
Either way the argument that "if I am not buried, I can get to others" is freaking common sense. If your not buried you CAN get to others that are buried.....light bulb should be going off for you here.
So answer this one question, (I bet you avoid it instead of answer).
If you knew you would be in a slide tomorrow and had no way to avoid it but you were able to chose wether you would be wearing either a beacon OR an ABS which would you chose??? It doesn't take 15 years of back country experience to know what the best choice would be. That is if you want the best chances of living. Prepare for the worst, try for the best, a rule to LIVE by!
Have you ever wondered why the industry is heading to these packs in the first place?? Your logic is kind of like "forget putting airbags in my car, I'll just wear my seatbelt and then I won't get in any wrecks. Because after all, "I have 15 years driving experience and I would never expose myself to a possible wreck".
Please let it snow soon!!!

Having been in a couple slides myself, never buried but some wild rides (something you never want to do, I can assure you), I would take the beacon with competant reliable partners with proper gear watching me from a safe zone over an ABS any day. If I knew I would be in a slide the next day I would have these people around because I have seen enough carnage to know that it is foolish to be in the mountains without them. I trust my companions way more then something that is probably made in China.

Predicting every slide is indeed not possible but reading the terrain is. When you have to cross an exposed area or climb a big hill, one guy should asses and proceed while the others wait in a place where they can see the anticipated slide path and run out The term "islands of safety" is often used to describe these safe zones where you can watch and be ready to assist if there is trouble. If you follow these practices the odds are pretty good that you will not have more then one in a slide. Any avalanche professional will tell you the same thing and it is also mentioned in any books related to avalanche safety including "Snow Sense". I highly recommend reading it.


ABS packs are a great idea and will save a lot of lives but they are no substitute for common sense. If your buddies are too cheap for shovels and probes I would be surprised to hear that they are willing to pay $400 for a pack.

 

[CatWoman]

Keep it civil. It is quite possible to express opinions without attacking one another.

Not everyone can afford a pack.......plain and simple. If you can afford that, as well as the beacon, shovel and probe (obviously a class......multiple even better), great. Your brain IS your most important piece of equipment.

Some day, well you might just happen to be on your way, when the unthinkable happens to you, or someone else. Everyone should be prepared for that.

Not everyone is on a brand new sled, or new truck, or expensive trailer, etc.

2 years ago, we had an avalanche locally. The groomed sled trail that was in the BOTTOM of a gully (hills on both sides, but NOT real narrow), was filled in. A skier triggered the slide from an area that sleds aren't allowed. Took another skier's life along with his own. Thankfully there was no one buried on sleds there.......it is a popular stopping point for folks. Had anyone been sitting there, or passing through at the time, they would have been buried. Even if they had a bag on, there was no place for the slide to take them....the snow would have piled on top of them. It wasn't extreme, or even high danger that day. There were just certain aspects/areas to avoid. Our group passed through 15 minutes before the slide. We had an awesome day of riding, until our ride out (riding to and from area involved some trail, main riding was off trail). At the end of our day, we had to ride back out over the avy. People still searching with probes because of a report of more people buried than just the 2, a bloody hole, body covered by a tarp with the feet sticking out, poke your way slowly down a narrow path that had been probed and marked with flags so sleds could get out........

One just never knows.....

 

[Snowjunky]

Having been in a couple slides myself, never buried but some wild rides (something you never want to do, I can assure you), I would take the beacon with competant reliable partners with proper gear watching me from a safe zone over an ABS any day. If I knew I would be in a slide the next day I would have these people around because I have seen enough carnage to know that it is foolish to be in the mountains without them. I trust my companions way more then something that is probably made in China.

I agree 100% with this. Theree is absolutely no replacement for good traing with a good group. None. Glad you have a group like that to ride with.
Read another post this morning that makes the best argument for whatever you buy you still need the beacon. Factor in panic excitment or any human error and you have a recue situation.

 

[Arcteryx]

It continues

Having been in a couple slides myself, never buried but some wild rides (something you never want to do, I can assure you), I would take the beacon with competant reliable partners with proper gear watching me from a safe zone over an ABS any day.

ABS packs are a great idea and will save a lot of lives but they are no substitute for common sense. If your buddies are too cheap for shovels and probes I would be surprised to hear that they are willing to pay $400 for a pack.

This just gets better and better. First off, you have 15 years PM skier experience and yet you have still been in 2, count them 2 slides. Most people will never be in 1. So this experience and terrain reading experience you talk about must not be very polished.
Second, I give you credit for answering the question but REALLY??? You would take the beacon. One more time on the statistics.
ABS 95% of the time will keep you ON THE SURFACE of a slide, 95%!!!!!!!!
Beacon 50% of the time you will be buried. Average burial depth 1 meter. 2 out of every 3 buried WILL DIE!!!!! Thats 66% WILL DIE!!!!!!
Those types of numbers and you would still take the beacon?? No matter how skilled your spotters and diggers are it will still take them time to get to you. Time to find your beacon with theirs. Time to probe your body. Time to dig you out. 1 meter is a long way down in snow that sets up like concrete. And time to pull you out. I HOPE YOU ARE GOOD AT HOLDING YOUR BREATH. Take a look at this video to see what it looks and sounds like. http://vimeo.com/6581009

Seriously dude, with all your experience and your rules for avalanche safety YOU HAVE STILL BEEN IN 2 SLIDES!!!!! You should know better by now. You should be advocating for the average sledder on here. All the average sledder has to do is pull the freaking handle, pray for the best and go for a ride in the ABS scenario. In your Beacon scenario he has to go for a ride, risk a 1 in 2 chance of being buried. And then a 66% chance of dieing if he is buried.

You have all this experience, your are probably looked up to by others and you advocate this position on a public forum. I'm sure a fair amount of people will agree with your logic and take your advice. I think all this will prove is that Darwinism is alive and well.

 

[CatWoman]

Practicing with your gear AND your riding companions is a very important part of all of this as well. Just because someone has the gear, doesn't mean they know how to use it.

There was one guy who was *deleted* from riding with our group for lack of gear. He picked some up, but still never bothered with any classes, nor had any idea of how to use his gear. The beacon he got was an analog (Ortovox F1), and while one can be proficient with it with LOTS of practice, the only thing it would have been good for in his case was for someone else to find him (he is also one that doesn't use his head too well, and pulls some pretty stupid *stunts*). He was a liability to all of us.

The classes/training teach you what to look for. They teach you to use your brain to make fact based decisions. Maybe you do want to turn around and go home, or plan a different type of ride or destination based on what you see out there. There are too many other things learned in classes/training to be listed here.

Our group does practice while we are out. Lunch/rest break in a safe area, a beacon or two gets hidden. This way we are all getting hands on. The hubby and I do practice at home before riding starts. We hide 3-4 beacons in the yard. One goes out to find. Once found, that person re-hides them, and the other one goes out. When we first started this, it was one beacon hidden. We have since moved up from our F1's. We also have a Tracker, but our main beacons now are the Mammut Pulse.

 

[columbus]

This just gets better and better. First off, you have 15 years PM skier experience and yet you have still been in 2, count them 2 slides. Most people will never be in 1. So this experience and terrain reading experience you talk about must not be very polished.
Second, I give you credit for answering the question but REALLY??? You would take the beacon. One more time on the statistics.
ABS 95% of the time will keep you ON THE SURFACE of a slide, 95%!!!!!!!!
Beacon 50% of the time you will be buried. Average burial depth 1 meter. 2 out of every 3 buried WILL DIE!!!!! Thats 66% WILL DIE!!!!!!
Those types of numbers and you would still take the beacon?? No matter how skilled your spotters and diggers are it will still take them time to get to you. Time to find your beacon with theirs. Time to probe your body. Time to dig you out. 1 meter is a long way down in snow that sets up like concrete. And time to pull you out. I HOPE YOU ARE GOOD AT HOLDING YOUR BREATH. Take a look at this video to see what it looks and sounds like. http://vimeo.com/6581009

Seriously dude, with all your experience and your rules for avalanche safety YOU HAVE STILL BEEN IN 2 SLIDES!!!!! You should know better by now. You should be advocating for the average sledder on here. All the average sledder has to do is pull the freaking handle, pray for the best and go for a ride in the ABS scenario. In your Beacon scenario he has to go for a ride, risk a 1 in 2 chance of being buried. And then a 66% chance of dieing if he is buried.

You have all this experience, your are probably looked up to by others and you advocate this position on a public forum. I'm sure a fair amount of people will agree with your logic and take your advice. I think all this will prove is that Darwinism is alive and well.

The last point I want to make and the big problem I have with Arcteryx's view is the fact that he is saying "all you have to do is pull the handle and go for a ride." When you come out and tell people that they will survive and be fine with an ABS people will tend to throw caution to the wind and think they dont have to worry anymore. An ABS is a last resort tool which will help when things go really sideways but it is not a substitute for knowledge, experienced partners and proper gear. Is that really the point you want to convey to someone asking what avy gear to buy?

Your statistics are skewed because the majority of people have not taken the time to learn how to properly use a beacon.

I cant believe I am arguing this point with someone who thinks its just fine that his riding partners wear beacons but dont carry shovels and probes. Darwinism indeed.

 

[Arcteryx]

One more time!!

The last point I want to make and the big problem I have with Arcteryx's view is the fact that he is saying "all you have to do is pull the handle and go for a ride." When you come out and tell people that they will survive and be fine with an ABS people will tend to throw caution to the wind and think they dont have to worry anymore. An ABS is a last resort tool which will help when things go really sideways but it is not a substitute for knowledge, experienced partners and proper gear. Is that really the point you want to convey to someone asking what avy gear to buy?

Your statistics are skewed because the majority of people have not taken the time to learn how to properly use a beacon.
.

Stepping up one more time eh Columbo??? You do understand that properly using a beacon does not change the burial statistics don't you??? 50% of people without an ABS get buried. Only 5% of those with an ABS get buried. This part has nothing to do with proper training or proper usage of a beacon. That part of the statistic would have to do with the survival of those who get buried in the first place. If you want to debate the 66% of people that get buried dieing, that would be the number that would change due to proper (stellar) training on a beacon. Even if you were able to cut that number in half with training, that is still a huge mortality rate. Remember spotters still need time to identify a search area, determine search area is safe to proceed, identify beacon area to probe, probe and locate body, dig through concrete type snow to reach body. And hope that all that can happen quickly or that the snow isn't too deep. You mentioned an ABS is a "last resort tool", I have news for you buddy. It doesn't get anymore last resort than using a beacon, that comes out after an ABS would have done its thing. Thats the beauty of the ABS IF it does its job your buddies won't need to use their beacons.
You said your most recent problem with me is that you feel I advocate ignorance to avy safety. Again, something I never said that you feel content to jump on. You began your posts by saying you had a problem because you thought I promoted an ABS REPLACING a beacon instead of what I actually said which was that I prioritize an ABS over a beacon. I list a beacon second. Then you jumped on my choice of riding buddies. What will your concern with me be next time I wonder?? My problem with you is that you cannot read, my posts have been clear. And that you don't understand statistics.
Yes, I ride with 2 guys that do not carry probes or shovels. There are about 6 or 7 different others we ride with (on most occasions) that have different combinations of that gear. So on MOST days I am covered. However for those days that I am not and for EVERY day I said I personally have ALL the gear including an ABS, Beacon, Ava-lung, shovel and probe. So, I take personal responsibility for my own survival. That is what Darwinism is, survival of the fittest. You trust your survival to spotters, probers and diggers. You trust your survival to others. What if they couldn't see where the slide took you? What if they didn't think the area was safe to dig in? What if you were buried to deep?? What if they dug 2 feet to the left and you were under too long. There are so many factors that don't even factor, if your not buried in the first place. You trust your survival to lower odds, much lower odds. So yes, "Darwinism indeed"!
The point I want to convey to others is that having all the gear is the way to go. If you HAVE to prioritize I do so 1) ABS 2) Beacon 3) Shove 4) Probe and 5) Ava-lung and I do so based on data and increasing my chances for survival in the first place.
Next time, read a guys actual post or text before jumping on your soap box. Then you won't have to continually defend a position based on a faulty attack or faulty statistics, both of which apply in your case. I'm just as stupid I jumped on mine to reply to your first misguided post and then to argue with you over basic statistics, but I am just that bored. You, skibreeze, and cobbycat need to learn how to read or maybe just flame each other next time!!!

 

[skibreeze]

WTF is wrong with you? I agreed with you that a pack is ideal for keeping you on the surface. I simply disagree with the term "prioritize" when it comes to having a beacon, as cheap as they can be bought, they shouldn't be a delayed purchase. Meaning, if you can buy a pack you should be buying a beacon at the same time if you don't already have one.

 

[Arcteryx]

??

WTF is wrong with you?

Lol, that's probably a long conversation. I HATE how guys are so quick to pounce on someone in this forum. It bothers me even more when they take things out of context when doing the flaming. Or in your case how you start your reply to my post "WRONG, the beacon is the first essential". So ya, WTF, WHERE is that written?? The guy was asking for advice. I gave my opinion, I stated clear reasons, and I even gave data to illustrate how his survival would be improved by starting with a ABS. I respect your opinion but after all it is just an opinion. Then your 2 buddies jump in and start bashing my profile name, choice of gear, mountain safety experience, riding buddies. Again, WTF. They don't know me, why start all of that in the first place??
I just don't understand guys who jump on here acting all "knowitall ish" and act like di*(s when they don't have to. So since I was bored, and stupid I decided to engage in the debate about my opinion and be a di*( right back.
Hopefully we are all done at this point.

 

[skibreeze]

Lol, that's probably a long conversation. I HATE how guys are so quick to pounce on someone in this forum. It bothers me even more when they take things out of context when doing the flaming. Or in your case how you start your reply to my post "WRONG, the beacon is the first essential". So ya, WTF, WHERE is that written?? The guy was asking for advice. I gave my opinion, I stated clear reasons, and I even gave data to illustrate how his survival would be improved by starting with a ABS. I respect your opinion but after all it is just an opinion. Then your 2 buddies jump in and start bashing my profile name, choice of gear, mountain safety experience, riding buddies. Again, WTF. They don't know me, why start all of that in the first place??
I just don't understand guys who jump on here acting all "knowitall ish" and act like di*(s when they don't have to. So since I was bored, and stupid I decided to engage in the debate about my opinion and be a di*( right back.
Hopefully we are all done at this point.

First off I don't know who the other two guys are, and I thought you said you were done with this days ago.

 

[Arcteryx]

First off I don't know who the other two guys are, and I thought you said you were done with this days ago.

The buddies comment was a metaphor Google can tell you what that means.
I did say I was done and then I said I am bored so I was continuing the debate. Again, information you would have if you read the actual text (words) that were posted (typed).
Why aren't you done with it??? You appear to be following the debate yourself.