what avalanche equipment to purchase?

[Johnrodgers]

this is going to be my first year of sledding so i have nothing in terms of avalanche equipment for the mountains. i was thinking about probes,shovels beacons and deploy-able air bags, but am not sure how to prioritize which in terms of needing it. i think a shovel and probes are a give in since they are cheap and essential for digging. next i was thinking a beacon, because they don't cost as much as the air bags and im not sure how well those bags actually work if they work at all to keep you from getting burried. if anyone can recommend me a beacon i would appreciate it, and if i hear good things about the deploy-able air bag back packs i may just spring for one of those units as well.

thanks for any info in advance

 

[Elevation]

I think you are on the right track, all these items are a important part of what you need to reduce your risks if you dont have one piece-dont go where there is avi danger! My perosnal priorities would be: shovel, beacon, probe, pack.

 

[columbus]

You're forgetting the most important items-an avalanche course and beacon practice. Training is the most important tool. The easiest way to survive a slide is to not get caught in one.

As for equipment, dont ever go into avalanche terrain without a beacon, shovel, probe and a partner who knows how to use their beacon. Air bags are a nice item to have but a beacon is critical. Also, these items must be in a pack and attached to your body. If your shovel is in your sled and you become seperated from it in a slide you are going to have a very hard time digging your friends out.

Whenever possible, do not expose more then one person to slide danger at a time. I dont think this needs explaining.

 

[cobbycat]

this is going to be my first year of sledding so i have nothing in terms of avalanche equipment for the mountains. i was thinking about probes,shovels beacons and deploy-able air bags, but am not sure how to prioritize which in terms of needing it. i think a shovel and probes are a give in since they are cheap and essential for digging. next i was thinking a beacon, because they don't cost as much as the air bags and im not sure how well those bags actually work if they work at all to keep you from getting burried. if anyone can recommend me a beacon i would appreciate it, and if i hear good things about the deploy-able air bag back packs i may just spring for one of those units as well.

thanks for any info in advance

buy it all!!! and learn how to use it all!!! at the end of the day, your brain is the most useful avalanche tool. but if you do get caught in an avy, you will need all these tools, and the knowledge to use them efficiently. your life and your riding partners lives will be at stake. just go take an avy course and you will understand.

p.s. the abs avy packs have been used in europe for 25 years with a 98% survival rate. worth their weight in gold if you get caught by the white monster.

 

[Ex-Member]

Must have: Beacon, shovel, probe, and an avalanche class to teach you how to avoid avys to begin with, and what to do if you or a buddy is caught in one. Other safety equipment like helmets, tekvest, and knee protection are things I don't ride without. If I don't have it in the parking lot, I'm packing up and going home.

Nice to have: Avalanche pack, extra shovel/probe/beacon.

Avy packs are kinda $$ at this point. Sure, "what's your life worth" etc etc, but $1k just isn't in everyone's budget.

 

[snowww1]

Take an avalanche class. What people buy before taking a class is completely different than what they buy after taking a class. A class will tell you which equipment works best. Unfortunately, there is quite a bit of gear being sold that just does not get the job done or hold up.
I teach snowmobile specific classes. If you are interested in a class, please check out www.avalanche1.com. Mike Duffy

 

[EricW]

First off good on ya for inquiring and trying to get the knowledge and equipment before you get the SLP pipe & can. So many get this backwards. I think you would learn a lot and save a lot with a call to Snowbigdeal. There are many small particulars that you will learn with things like lexan shovel vs metal shovel, different length / diameter of probes, how different probes lock once assembled, etc. These things along with the training and practice mentioned above are way more important to your success and happiness as a back country rider than a set of reeds or the latest "Ladies Ride Calander". Well.......than the reeds for sure, seen the calander yet, Wah Wah.

If you are considering going with a Avy pack in the next year or so, pm me and I'll send ya a new Mamut pack to use until you get the Avy pack. I got a deal on a bunch of them and they are nice packs. Atleast you would not have to buy 2 packs that way.

Hope you have a great and safe season, sounds like you will. EW

 

[Johnrodgers]

I agree with all of you about taking an avalanche class, i have been thinking about it for some time actually but haven't gone to the lengths of finding the closest one being taught near me. I know i am going to be picking up a Beacon probes and shovel before i venture out into the mountains now, but next thing up on the agenda will most definitely be an avy class now that you guys stressed its importance. thanks for all the info,i really appreciate it.

 

[APEX320]

Like everyone has mentioned above, Definitely take an Avy course. Also I would look into the Ortovox beacons they seem to be absolutely flawless and even if you are in search mode and another Avy comes they flip over to send mode automatically which can be a HUGE lifesaver. I will be buying 2 Ortovox this year because I want my riding partners to be able to find me also. I have like 4 SOS models and it takes like 4 times the time to find burried ones.

 

[columbus]

Practice a ton with your beacon. Get your buddies out, have one guy bury a beacon in a pack. Search one at a time at first to avoid confusion then search together, you will see that it gets a bit more hectic when you have 3 other beacons beeping next to you. This kind of practice is critical because it not only teaches you to use the beacon but also when you are close enough to start probing and digging. With multiple rescuers it can make sense to narrow the search with the beacon and then have 1 or 2 guys continue with the beacons while the others get their probes out.
Although practiceing in the backyard is a good place to start, it is critical to practice real scenarios as well. Full gear, on the sled, deep snow and on a bit of a hill (not avy terrain). This will teach you the conscequences of going too low on your search (you must start above and work down or you will never make it in time) and will also show you how much longer it takes to ride to the slide and get everything out of your pack. Time is critical in these situations. If you cannot locate 1 beacon in under 4 minutes and 2 in under 7 in controlled conditions then you need to keep practicing. If you are out of shape these times will be very difficult to reach in deep snow so you will have to be very efficient in your searches.

 

[EricW]

I agree with all of you about taking an avalanche class, i have been thinking about it for some time actually but haven't gone to the lengths of finding the closest one being taught near me. I know i am going to be picking up a Beacon probes and shovel before i venture out into the mountains now, but next thing up on the agenda will most definitely be an avy class now that you guys stressed its importance. thanks for all the info,i really appreciate it.

Check out Zacs Tracs, they hold classes in BC through the season. i hired Lori to teach a class at my house and it was great. Lots of life saving info with a lot of laughs as well. She / they really know their stuff. I'm sure there are others as well. Might check with local dealers or search & rescue. Hope ya find a class. EW

 

[APEX320]

I have taken the Zacs Tracks course and it was awesome. 1 classroom day and one field day in Kakwa falls. The instructors were awesome, they made the course a good time!

 

[Duke]

IMO, nobody has any business riding in the mountains without a beacon, shovel and probe. I would start by picking up those 3. Pieps DSP is one of my first choices.

 

[skibreeze]

IMO, nobody has any business riding in the mountains without a beacon, shovel and probe. I would start by picking up those 3. Pieps DSP is one of my first choices.

X2, I'm also buying a new beacon and will probably be the DSP.

 

[Arcteryx]

Buy the abs pack first

I have all of it now, but had the packs been around when I first started sledding I would have gone that route first!!!
Packs keep you on or near the surface in the event of a slide. No better place to be than on top or near the surface wearing a big orange bag where you can be seen.
Beckons help others find your body and depending on how long that takes and how long it takes people to dig you out determines your survival.
I have been in a slide (head not buried) and it is SLOW going getting anything out. The shovels, probes and beacons are nice, I even wore an avalung for years, but you will feel 100 times better with an ABS pack on your back. I have a little boy to think about now and the pack gives me much better peace of mind than my shovel, probe, avalung or beacon ever did. I hear there is a new one for around $400 anyway. If you never use it chances are you can sell it later for some coin and if you do use it, you will be dang glad you spent the money. If your in a slide wearing a pack chances are you will be on top looking at the mess. Wearing just a beacon chances you might find yourself under a couple feet of snow, praying and counting the seconds!!
Worth the money!
Arc

 

[skibreeze]

I have all of it now, but had the packs been around when I first started sledding I would have gone that route first!!!
Packs keep you on or near the surface in the event of a slide. No better place to be than on top or near the surface wearing a big orange bag where you can be seen.
Beckons help others find your body and depending on how long that takes and how long it takes people to dig you out determines your survival.
I have been in a slide (head not buried) and it is SLOW going getting anything out. The shovels, probes and beacons are nice, I even wore an avalung for years, but you will feel 100 times better with an ABS pack on your back. I have a little boy to think about now and the pack gives me much better peace of mind than my shovel, probe, avalung or beacon ever did. I hear there is a new one for around $400 anyway. If you never use it chances are you can sell it later for some coin and if you do use it, you will be dang glad you spent the money. If your in a slide wearing a pack chances are you will be on top looking at the mess. Wearing just a beacon chances you might find yourself under a couple feet of snow, praying and counting the seconds!!
Worth the money!
Arc

Wrong! The beacon is a first essential, it is for the buried person and the person doing the searching whether you are in the same group or not. There was an avy just last week where the pack failed to deploy, what do you do then? What happens if you get blindsided by a big one and are knocked out? I came upon an avy a few years ago that, if the guy had been wearing a beacon we might have been able to save him. That $2-400 item more than likely cost him his life.

If you can afford a pack, you can afford a beacon as well.

 

[puckered]

I agree with Skibreeze. Beacon, probe and shovel is for others first - the safety of the group. Arc, think how proud you would be to tell your son that you saved your carcass, but couldn't do anything to save his uncle, or grandpa, or mommy, cuz you didn't have a beacon. Take a class, practice.

 

[cobbycat]

the way I see it, you need several things to survive the mountain with your group intact. here they are;
-avalanche training (the more the better), for the good of all on the mountain.
-shovel, probe, and beacon, for all others on the mountain.
-avalanche pack, so you have a better chance to survive the avalanche to find your friends.
-brain and listen to it (the most important piece of equipment), so you can minimize the chances of triggering an avalanche in the first place. also for the good of all on the mountain.

just my honest opinion on the subject, and yes, I take all these things with me to visit the mountain.

 

[Snowjunky]

The bashing may or may not start here John But here it is anyways.

First a good AVY class is a must. Not a snow show class but it sounds like you have an in the field class in your area. This will get you to a point of understanding. Depending on how long you ride and where, avy danger is in alot more areas than you think. It will also teach you that a beacon may only be a retrival tool for your cold lifeless body UNLESS

1) you ride in a group of people that have them and have both the mental calmness and physical ability to climb-find-and dig you out.
In short, if after you take a class if anything is first a prepared partner is. I cant tell you how many times I have seen beer gutted 300 lb guys that couldnt climb a ladder sober let alone with a 6 in them. But they had beacons and a shovel and probe.

Here on this site I have seen the beacon first statement all together too often. Safty should be a package deal. How do you get blindsided by an avalanche if you are trained? If you sled chances are you will find yourself in higher risk situations and they unforseeable will happen. I personally dont want to find myself tumbling down a hill hoping my buddies will find me.
ABS pack, shovel, beacon, and probe are second after the class. So bash me if ya want but anyone wants to say its expensive shouldnt ride a sled. Last time I checked a hammered POS was 800 bucks. So third would be the sled.

If you want to listen to a flatlander that comes west once or twice a year fine. They preach a pretty picture about stay awayy techniques. All fun where its flat for as far as you can see. In the snowys where we ride I have actually turned around and backtracked a trail cause it was getting hairy. I am not bashing on all flatlanders but I think the point I am trying to make is out west or anywhere that has grade avys can and will happen.

"I came upon an avy a few years ago that, if the guy had been wearing a beacon we might have been able to save him. That $2-400 item more than likely cost him his life."

These are easy words when its not you buried. I am not saying he should not of been wearing a beacon. What I am saying is if he was wearing a pack maybe just maybe no one would be searching for him. Beacons sink as fast as the person they are attached to. Also most will tell you having common sense is the first defense. Well common sense says an ABS pack floats better than 2 aa batteries. I hope everyone knows all I am saying is if ya cant afford the gear wait to go to the mountains till you can. If you like to climb hills then for absolute best case all 4 are needed. And something that was said earlier is really important. Keep the gear on your person. Beacon straped to body not in back pack. Probe and shovel in back pack not strapped to sled.

The statement of prioritize has only two steps period
1 education
2 safty gear PACKAGE

Any other way of thinking you might as well say I will buy the ABS instead of a helmet or a beacon instead of a class. Do some research on these threads. You will **** yourself to see how many people say the ABS packs are too expensive then post pics of their tow rigs with $4000 bucks worth of wheels and tires. Call me jealous if you like cause I cant afford it. I bought a spare setup for guests and still have stock wheels. Prioritize doesnt work with safty gear in my opinion. One last word do your own research. Opinions here including mine ARE JUST THAT. Call SNOWBIGDEAL and get a price on all your gear. Bet it will be less than what your fuel cost will be this year sledding

 

[Snowjunky]

I agree with Skibreeze. Beacon, probe and shovel is for others first - the safety of the group. Arc, think how proud you would be to tell your son that you saved your carcass, but couldn't do anything to save his uncle, or grandpa, or mommy, cuz you didn't have a beacon. Take a class, practice.

Think about how proud your son would be if he told everyone how his dad did save the others cause he wasnt BURIED like them!! DUH Best post for all or nothing I ever read