Twisted Turbo Pump Gas M1000 Update

[hatchers]

I don't doubt for a second that they run very well. ccpowder has been on here long enough that if he says it runs good that is good enough for me.

However, while I am sure it does perform well, I don't believe the 250 hp at 5lbs of boost on pump gas for one second. I don't care what size of garrett is on it. Those #s aren't accurate.

numbers..shumbers, i dont ride a dyno, i ride snow, its way more fun

so you dont care what size the compressor is?...volume is a much larger factor in respect to flow then DP ratio, but you need to do other stuff as lower RPMs in a larger void wont build pressure until later in the RPM range, i read a book about this stuff one time

So 5psi of DP is a direct unit of measurement in a HP fomula?...please explain

 

[hatchers]

I am just setting up the EFI on a turbo kit for a M1000 and at low boost you have to dump a wack of fuel to keep it happy, just doing the rough math for the amount of fuel you add it will put out close to 250 hp @ 5 psi. I have never had any turbo kit I put together come alive at this low of boost like this thing. I had to test my boost gauge because I thought it was reading low




.

Damn nice work

couple thoughts from a noob:

- that intake screen wont work/last (im sure its only a temp?), and its best you have more surface area when you get ice/snow on the compressor intake, i use a prefilter for a yami grizzly 660, its a bit bigger then what comes with most kits and its not tight on the mesh cone screen, so its gets to flew you your on and off the throttle, helps break the ice/snow

- i love the spring exhaust bolts!

- i'd double up the y-pipe springs

- why did ya put the BOV on the exhaust, i guess it would matter if its setup right, hope it here how it works vs the intake BOV

- the M1000 needs the M7 engine mount thingy, PM CC powder, he knows more

- the tiny throttle body intake is nice, should make reed changes easier

- did you cut the T-bodies for the extra injectors?...nice!

 

[kennyblatz]

at a quick glance that turbo does not look internally wastegated so im going to say thats his external waste gate on the exhauset and the BOV is not in the picture.


-the formula for hp is something like this

WA=HP*A/F*BSFC/60
Where:
· Wa = Airflow actual (lb/min)
· HP = Horsepower Target (flywheel)
·A/F = Air/Fuel Ratio
·BSFC/60 = Brake Specific Fuel Consumption (LB/HP*HR) ÷ 60 (to convert from hours to minutes)

So yeah nothing about PSI in there.


-boyko as posted above if thats not a temp intake screen change it your turbo will only compress whatever atompheric pressure will force in. so give it a large filter so atmospheric can privide enough air for the turbo. (the turbo is not sucking in air but only taking what is provided)

 

[Boyko]

Thanks for the comets Hatcher, I kind of ran out of snow and time here so that is the reason for the dumb a$$ screen on the turbo, I wanted to run a cold air intake. The turbo uses a external waistgate and my pipe pressure is 3.5 psi over boost now I have only been tuning it at low boost but it should stay at 3.5 over up to around +10 pounds of boost it seem to make good power and I think this is the way to go for controlling boost on a 2-smoker. It still need some work but it will have to wait till 2010. I have some help and guidance from Shane @ Twisted Turbos, Derek @ Attitude EFI, And Dave at Powderlites If I ever run into any of you guys the beer is on me, big thanks to them

 

[Snowstar]

250hp is the dyno corrected hp. Take it for what its worth, I dont ride dynos either but before we dynoed it just comparing to other known sleds my estimate was 240-250. Nice work Boyko

 

[hatchers]

Boyko - the turbine looks huge!, Garrett only makes non-wastegated turbines for larger engine applications...i think the 3582 is the smallest of the non-wastegated stuff?...what size compressor you got?

 

[Boyko]

It's a gt4088R

good for 700hp




















































just Kidding

It is just the 3071, I belive you can get the 28 series with out a built in waistgate

Cheers

 

[genesmob]

Heres one.

 

[Boyko]

Nice............

I like the TiAL turbine housing

 

[genesmob]

Thanks.

 

[CBX]

The external wastegate is a neat deal. Placement is critical. Tial motorsports recomends something like a 45 deg exit path to not disrupt flow. when taken to a 90 flow rates fall drastically if a remember right. If done wrong it can be inefficent. Hard to beat practicality of an internally wastegated setup, but for ultimate performance, external is where its at.

I've attached some reading links for those who dont understand compressors. PSI is realative only to the difference in exhaust vs intake pressure (pressure or drive ratio. Flow rates and pressure ratios are what determine a compressors abilty to generate HP along with turbine speed, Not one sleds boost gauge saying 12 and the nexts saying 5.

Left vertical is Pressure ratio, Bottom # is LBS of air, 5 and 6 digit #'s are wheel speed in rpm. Other lines on graph is Efficency in ranges.

Just so you guys know, Hatchers works on very big turbines for a living.

http://www.tialsport.com/

http://www.turbobygarrett.com/

 

[Freak]

Boyko - the turbine looks huge!, Garrett only makes non-wastegated turbines for larger engine applications...i think the 3582 is the smallest of the non-wastegated stuff?...what size compressor you got?

Hatchers you are funny

 

[genesmob]

The external wastegate is a neat deal. Placement is critical. Tial motorsports recomends something like a 45 deg exit path to not disrupt flow. when taken to a 90 flow rates fall drastically if a remember right. If done wrong it can be inefficent. Hard to beat practicality of an internally wastegated setup, but for ultimate performance, external is where its at.

I've attached some reading links for those who dont understand compressors. PSI is realative only to the difference in exhaust vs intake pressure (pressure or drive ratio. Flow rates and pressure ratios are what determine a compressors abilty to generate HP along with turbine speed, Not one sleds boost gauge saying 12 and the nexts saying 5.

Left vertical is Pressure ratio, Bottom # is LBS of air, 5 and 6 digit #'s are wheel speed in rpm. Other lines on graph is Efficency in ranges.

Just so you guys know, Hatchers works on very big turbines for a living.

http://www.tialsport.com/

http://www.turbobygarrett.com/

It seems to control boost just as well (the same) and make as much power wether the gate is at 45 or 90 degrees to the pipe. My other setup had a steeper angle close to 45 degrees. Internal gates from Garrett are 90 degrees to exhaust flow.

 

[CBX]

It seems to control boost just as well (the same) and make as much power wether the gate is at 45 or 90 degrees to the pipe. My other setup had a steeper angle close to 45 degrees. Internal gates from Garrett are 90 degrees to exhaust flow.

Interesting.

true in the internal gate as well. You've obivously done your homework and testing. Looks like an awesome setup.

Boyko, If your only 3.5 lbs difference in drive, man thats awesome! lots of nice cool air getting stuffed through.

 

[genesmob]

Interesting.

true in the internal gate as well. You've obivously done your homework and testing. Looks like an awesome setup.

Boyko, If your only 3.5 lbs difference in drive, man thats awesome! lots of nice cool air getting stuffed through.

Thanks, Im also using a double downpipe where the wastegate exhaust ties back in before the muffler. I dont know if this makes any difference because I havent tried it any other way. What do you mean by 3.5Lb difference? Are you talking about exhaust pressure VS. boost or pressure drop across the intercooler? About the only measurement I havent taken is exhaust pressure. Ive had the advantage of Glenn Halls help and trial and error.

 

[CBX]

If you read boyko's post he states his Pipe pressure is 3.5 lbs about intake (boost) up to 10lbs, that is pressure difference. that along with some math you can take that info and look to see what efficency range that turbo is running based on its map. (map is a controled test of efficency.)