S
SilverGriz
Well-known member
Looks sweet! It is great to see some many performance guys putting R & D into Turbo designs. Keep up the great work!
Twisted Polaris
- Thread starter Lucky Lyle
- Start date
Your design looks like a perfect canidate for an external wastegate.
You mention great price... What is your Target price? This may be a good idea to announce as people are making their decisions now on what to buy for the season.
What feeds the Crank bearings for lubrication?
Where is the turbo oil reservoir tank?
Is there some small reservoir to feed oil to the waterpump/oil pump drive cavity (like on the SkiDoo racers)?
How sturdy is the mounting system for beating the snot out of the sled?
With this design... lower boost (8-10 lb), quick spooling, great boondocking may be possible if you can also focus some of your time/energy into a system for the majority of riders and not just the point-n-shoot people that want to tackle the tunderstruck chutes.
Paying attention to boost thresholds and matching the A/R to the needs of the engine with the exact housings/turbine/compressor needed for this rather than the common off the shelf turbos available.
Also, with the intake... IMO... get rid of the trash-pump perforated suction strainer and run a pickup that mates directly with the hood airbox plenum floor and have plenty of intakes...
Like the Fire N Ice (FNI) headlight intake, side intake and under-windshield intake...
A simple foam gasket with something that will allow easy "close-the-hood" mating of the turbo to the airbox will be a HUGE plus to this system.
No need to put another Trash-Pump "periscope" sticking out the hood like a D!ck-on-a-nun....
The Polaris is already setup for this kind of thing and your turbo location seems to be a perfect match for this type of setup.
The cheeziest, NOT well thought-out thing that I see on most of the turbo kits is this type of outerwears underhood intakes... yes they work... but no, they dont take advantage of the BASIC thermodynamics of compressor operation and detonation minimization.
Keep the Compression ratio as high as possible, with cold air into the turbo so this thing is a boondocking animal. !!!!! Still do a "climbing" package... but dont be tempted to limit yourself to people that only want max power.
FNI stuff that can feed clean, COLD air into your turbo and still make the sled look great! You will have enough cold air into the turbo even on the over the hood days.
You mention great price... What is your Target price? This may be a good idea to announce as people are making their decisions now on what to buy for the season.
What feeds the Crank bearings for lubrication?
Where is the turbo oil reservoir tank?
Is there some small reservoir to feed oil to the waterpump/oil pump drive cavity (like on the SkiDoo racers)?
How sturdy is the mounting system for beating the snot out of the sled?
With this design... lower boost (8-10 lb), quick spooling, great boondocking may be possible if you can also focus some of your time/energy into a system for the majority of riders and not just the point-n-shoot people that want to tackle the tunderstruck chutes.
Paying attention to boost thresholds and matching the A/R to the needs of the engine with the exact housings/turbine/compressor needed for this rather than the common off the shelf turbos available.
Also, with the intake... IMO... get rid of the trash-pump perforated suction strainer and run a pickup that mates directly with the hood airbox plenum floor and have plenty of intakes...
Like the Fire N Ice (FNI) headlight intake, side intake and under-windshield intake...
A simple foam gasket with something that will allow easy "close-the-hood" mating of the turbo to the airbox will be a HUGE plus to this system.
No need to put another Trash-Pump "periscope" sticking out the hood like a D!ck-on-a-nun....
The Polaris is already setup for this kind of thing and your turbo location seems to be a perfect match for this type of setup.
The cheeziest, NOT well thought-out thing that I see on most of the turbo kits is this type of outerwears underhood intakes... yes they work... but no, they dont take advantage of the BASIC thermodynamics of compressor operation and detonation minimization.
Keep the Compression ratio as high as possible, with cold air into the turbo so this thing is a boondocking animal. !!!!! Still do a "climbing" package... but dont be tempted to limit yourself to people that only want max power.
FNI stuff that can feed clean, COLD air into your turbo and still make the sled look great! You will have enough cold air into the turbo even on the over the hood days.
P
product tester
Well-known member
Your design looks like a perfect canidate for an external wastegate.
You mention great price... What is your Target price? This may be a good idea to announce as people are making their decisions now on what to buy for the season.
What feeds the Crank bearings for lubrication?
Where is the turbo oil reservoir tank?
Is there some small reservoir to feed oil to the waterpump/oil pump drive cavity (like on the SkiDoo racers)?
How sturdy is the mounting system for beating the snot out of the sled?
With this design... lower boost (8-10 lb), quick spooling, great boondocking may be possible if you can also focus some of your time/energy into a system for the majority of riders and not just the point-n-shoot people that want to tackle the tunderstruck chutes.
Paying attention to boost thresholds and matching the A/R to the needs of the engine with the exact housings/turbine/compressor needed for this rather than the common off the shelf turbos available.
Also, with the intake... IMO... get rid of the trash-pump perforated suction strainer and run a pickup that mates directly with the hood airbox plenum floor and have plenty of intakes...
Like the Fire N Ice (FNI) headlight intake, side intake and under-windshield intake...
A simple foam gasket with something that will allow easy "close-the-hood" mating of the turbo to the airbox will be a HUGE plus to this system.
No need to put another Trash-Pump "periscope" sticking out the hood like a D!ck-on-a-nun....
The Polaris is already setup for this kind of thing and your turbo location seems to be a perfect match for this type of setup.
The cheeziest, NOT well thought-out thing that I see on most of the turbo kits is this type of outerwears underhood intakes... yes they work... but no, they dont take advantage of the BASIC thermodynamics of compressor operation and detonation minimization.
Keep the Compression ratio as high as possible, with cold air into the turbo so this thing is a boondocking animal. !!!!! Still do a "climbing" package... but dont be tempted to limit yourself to people that only want max power.
FNI stuff that can feed clean, COLD air into your turbo and still make the sled look great! You will have enough cold air into the turbo even on the over the hood days.
Were not for sure on price yet but should be competitive with any kit on the market.
The motor is premix that feeds the crank bearings.
The turbo oil res is below the turbo.
No res for the center bearings.
it is mounted way strong.
a cold air intake is possible with very little work,and will be an optionbut this is one of the things that drives the price up.
and as for only climbing chutes I do that maybe 6 or 7 days a year and I rode 120 days last season.
as for choseing the right turbo I would hope we could do that, as for the high compresion thats what the turbo is for.
Lots of good ideas and thoughts.
compression ratio is less of an issue than it was years ago.
bmep curves are much broader than just 2 years back.
chamber shape design is a bigger player in transition than compression.
todays turbo 2 strokes have better response than their stock counterparts, some due to the better oem baseline, other gains came from experience in the field and learning the tuning methods of the turbo and what it likes and dislikes.
Gus
compression ratio is less of an issue than it was years ago.
bmep curves are much broader than just 2 years back.
chamber shape design is a bigger player in transition than compression.
todays turbo 2 strokes have better response than their stock counterparts, some due to the better oem baseline, other gains came from experience in the field and learning the tuning methods of the turbo and what it likes and dislikes.
Gus
Does anyone make knee pads for the polaris?
Again.. these are sincere questions and I hope that you can take the time to answer them and help us out with some info and cast light on the topic.
OK... First off... Who is who on this post.... Product Tester, 700RMKBOY, SnowStar, Gus ??? And how are you connected to TT?
Since I'm stuck on the computer this weekend with work... might as well ask some more questions.
Lyle... Skinz Protective Gear makes knee pads for the Dragons.
OK... First off... Who is who on this post.... Product Tester, 700RMKBOY, SnowStar, Gus ??? And how are you connected to TT?
Since I'm stuck on the computer this weekend with work... might as well ask some more questions.
Lyle... Skinz Protective Gear makes knee pads for the Dragons.
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S
Snowstar
Well-known member
My name is Greg, I talked to you a few times before on the phone. I also bought a 07 Dragon seat from you about a year ago for my IQR. I do most of the fabrication/welding and production parts for Twisted Turbos (glorified welder
) I dont have decades of turbo 2stroke experience like alot of other guys do but like to learn from everyone and try new things.
) I dont have decades of turbo 2stroke experience like alot of other guys do but like to learn from everyone and try new things.
I'm Derek the owner of Attitude Industries. I do the tunning for the sleds with are EFI box. I help many companies including twisted to take care of there EFI needs. I work along side of these turbo companies and promote everybody we work with. Unlike all the other EFI companies we want to help them with their needs not compete against them. Just on the polaris side alone we work with, Silber turbo's, SPS Racing, HMS, HM, Aerocharger, Turbo Doc, and now Twisted.
Even though these boxes all look the same each company has its own programing or special box in some cases for there needs. What they want or need as far as the EFI system goes we supply, and this up comming year their is alot of new stuff comming out.
Hope this helps explain who I am.
Even though these boxes all look the same each company has its own programing or special box in some cases for there needs. What they want or need as far as the EFI system goes we supply, and this up comming year their is alot of new stuff comming out.
Hope this helps explain who I am.
P
product tester
Well-known member
Lots of questions Ill try to awnser them all first off I am Shain Stanger I own Twisted Turbos.
The oil injection delete is diffrent when you add boost to the thing pressure pushes oil every where.
There are lots of sleds out there with this done on it, fire n ice has some of them.
The oil fill cap is right aginst the fuel tank you can get your hand to it between the turbo and the tank to check it , It looks alot tighter in the pics than it really is.
The turbo hoop (we call it a roll bar) as we plan on haveing it up side down, is mounted to the two black bars that run from the steering hoop to the front of the bulk head. it is clamped on to it with a rubber buffer.no drilling or bolts
I have had a bd dragon sence day one 07 with the turbo down low I was allways fighting the snow build up around the turbo it would get no air.
and bog. I even moved the turbo on the cat higher and closer to the center of the sled be cause of this I think you will be suprised how well this set up keep cool air flowing through the hole sled. I have found in deep powder it is way more important to have a constant air supply than a cool air supply that gets restricted from snow clog. my favorite riding is deep pow in tight trees.(the steepier the better)
I do have a chain saw bumper in developement.
I have found the longer the charge tube the more velocity it takes to make boost, velocity creates heat. no charge tube=no heat.
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Polaris D8's w/no forced oil injection
Personal experience with (2) series 66 Aerocharged '08 D8's and (4) series 66 Aerocharged '09 D8's without forced oil injection (no oil pump) and using Redline oil has been successful. Absolutely no crank issues! All sleds were liquid intercooled running 10-12 lbs boost and set up for boondocking.
Personal experience with (2) series 66 Aerocharged '08 D8's and (4) series 66 Aerocharged '09 D8's without forced oil injection (no oil pump) and using Redline oil has been successful. Absolutely no crank issues! All sleds were liquid intercooled running 10-12 lbs boost and set up for boondocking.
J
JSCC
Well-known member
Compressing air builds heat. No matter how long your charge tube is, it will be hot if you are building pressure.
My question is, are you getting around that fact by building and tuning the kit to perform whilst hot? And since it will not ever see cool charge temps, you never have to worry about it?
F
Fack
Member
Here is my question, and it is purely a question... Since the charge tube is shorter the end result would be less friction and velocity losses on the charge right? So wouldn't this mean at low, pre-boost RPM the air being pulled through the intake of the turbo would also be at a higher velocity as well right? Wouldn't this also help spool the turbo faster as it already has a higher velocity of air traveling through it to start with? Just a thought. Can anyone shed some light on this???
-Fack
-Fack
Shain,
I think you may have taken my comments differently than I intended. My comments were not meant as a "challenge" but in a helpful manner.
This will be my final rant on lube... so here it goes.
The center cavity of the crank, with the seals on both sides provides an oil bath to the water/oil pump bearings and drive gear. The seals on either side of the center crank bearings isolate it from the premix supply and retain the oil in this chamber.
This is normally topped off everytime you top off the injection tank and, in theory, should not loose any oil... that is in a perfect world where the center crank seals OR water pump/oil pump seals dont leak. Sometimes they do...which could have catastrophic results on the crank or the turbo that is fed by this pump in your system if this area goes dry .
A reservoir gives you a buffer oil supply and also a visual clue as to the condition of the center section oil supply and seals. There is a reason that the racers inject this area with oil prior to each race weekend. IMO, this is a thin line to walk for something as expensive and critical as crank lubrication... especially when such a simple, gravity fed solution is available as an "off the shelf" accessory.
I wish you and all the turbo developers’ good luck in your designs. When you make advancements... all of us, as sledders, developers, and mfgs benefit from progressive thinking.
All of this is just speculation of "will it work on the mountian" until some of these TTD-8 kits hit the snow and we get to see what time will tell.
Keep us up to date when you have more snow time.... with lots of pics!!
Fack
Frictional heating in these 2 stroke charge tubes at the pressures run (atm -18 psi), and bends in the tubes that are on sled turbo kits would be negligable.
The major contributor to heating the air is the compressor. Lowering inlet air temp will lower the charge temps... other than an intercooler,
Managing inlet temps will help the most with lower charge temps.
With this setup and the 50mm BOV on the airbox... Idle air would also be drawn into the airbox thru the BOV. This might be a contributor to good
Low-end performance... much in the same way as old-school 2 stroke turbos used reed valves in the air box. HMMM...
I think you may have taken my comments differently than I intended. My comments were not meant as a "challenge" but in a helpful manner.
This will be my final rant on lube... so here it goes.
The center cavity of the crank, with the seals on both sides provides an oil bath to the water/oil pump bearings and drive gear. The seals on either side of the center crank bearings isolate it from the premix supply and retain the oil in this chamber.
This is normally topped off everytime you top off the injection tank and, in theory, should not loose any oil... that is in a perfect world where the center crank seals OR water pump/oil pump seals dont leak. Sometimes they do...which could have catastrophic results on the crank or the turbo that is fed by this pump in your system if this area goes dry .
A reservoir gives you a buffer oil supply and also a visual clue as to the condition of the center section oil supply and seals. There is a reason that the racers inject this area with oil prior to each race weekend. IMO, this is a thin line to walk for something as expensive and critical as crank lubrication... especially when such a simple, gravity fed solution is available as an "off the shelf" accessory.
I wish you and all the turbo developers’ good luck in your designs. When you make advancements... all of us, as sledders, developers, and mfgs benefit from progressive thinking.
All of this is just speculation of "will it work on the mountian" until some of these TTD-8 kits hit the snow and we get to see what time will tell.
Keep us up to date when you have more snow time.... with lots of pics!!
Fack
Frictional heating in these 2 stroke charge tubes at the pressures run (atm -18 psi), and bends in the tubes that are on sled turbo kits would be negligable.
The major contributor to heating the air is the compressor. Lowering inlet air temp will lower the charge temps... other than an intercooler,
Managing inlet temps will help the most with lower charge temps.
With this setup and the 50mm BOV on the airbox... Idle air would also be drawn into the airbox thru the BOV. This might be a contributor to good
Low-end performance... much in the same way as old-school 2 stroke turbos used reed valves in the air box. HMMM...
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Another thing that is food for thought...
Like on the Cats... using supplimental injectors before the throttle body plates would act to cool the inlet charge. Vaporization/expansion of an atomized stream of petrol would cool the charge. Much like the expansion of coolant in an HVAC system... or a swamp cooler.
The trick would be to manage a another set of injectors.
Many different ways to "bake a cake"... This is a great topic!!
Like on the Cats... using supplimental injectors before the throttle body plates would act to cool the inlet charge. Vaporization/expansion of an atomized stream of petrol would cool the charge. Much like the expansion of coolant in an HVAC system... or a swamp cooler.
The trick would be to manage a another set of injectors.
Many different ways to "bake a cake"... This is a great topic!!
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S
Snocross 100
Member
P
product tester
Well-known member
on the cat you have to add injectors on the poo you dont it all ready has 4
also we found we gained tuneability and top end power taking the injectors out of the charge system and putting them in the throttle boddies. if you add fuel to air to slows the flow down.thats why all the big time drag cars inject at the very last possible point.
