The new sleds won't be getting much better..

[0007]

very very true. im only 17 but not long ago motorcycles in the superbike class were 500 2 strokes, then they said HEY THATS TOO MUCH FUN AND TOO EASY so they introduced 1000 4 strokes and still lost. then said you could only run the 1000s so everyone switched. just like dirtbikes. they had to double cc s to get similar power. i ride a modified yz 250 and will not ride a 450. also have not ridden with any 450 that can out do me. i rode a 450 and they are considerally heavier and a ***** to start once hot even with hot start button

Actually, the first year the 4 stroke GP bike (Not superbike) came onto the scene the 2 strokes were immediately not competitive, if you were on a 2 stroke you had no hope of the podium
The dirt bike thing was done simply to develop 4 strokes, one thing that is interesting is that a 2 str125 was replaced by a 4 stroke 250 that can make over 40hp, a 125 isn't even close to the same power
You can argue about a 250 2str being better than 450 4str in the bush but i doubt James Stewart or Chad Reed ever want to go back to them

 

[xrated]

Well you best come on out to the race tracks...We have 250 four strokes that put it on 250 two strokes. Let alone our 450s. They are the baddest dirt motorcycles ever built. Period.QUOTE]

I know this is a little off topic, but KTM 380s(50hp), KTM 440s(59hp), KTM 550s(61hp), CR500s(55hp) and KX500s(56hp) will put a spanking on a 450(right at or less than 50hp). And they were all built in the mid 90s. But I can see why you would think that a bike with a similar size engine with less power and is heavier is the baddest dirt bike ever.

thanks for the chuckle. I was kinda thinking something like that as well.

 

[BullHead]

Well you best come on out to the race tracks...We have 250 four strokes that put it on 250 two strokes. Let alone our 450s. They are the baddest dirt motorcycles ever built. Period.QUOTE]

I know this is a little off topic, but KTM 380s(50hp), KTM 440s(59hp), KTM 550s(61hp), CR500s(55hp) and KX500s(56hp) will put a spanking on a 450(right at or less than 50hp). And they were all built in the mid 90s. But I can see why you would think that a bike with a similar size engine with less power and is heavier is the baddest dirt bike ever.

ya the cr500s where nuts, those things still kick ***

 

[SnoPro1000]

CC for CC 2 strokes rule,
But! that being said the 4 strokes still have the edge for the simple reason that if the 2 stroke falls out of its power band your strewed, i drove a highly modified banshee and it went like a b*stard, But the YFZ450 was unreal i never drove anything like it!

and for the EPA the thing is that they don't give a sh!t if you need to dump 5 times the fuel into the motor all that matures to them is the end result what comes out of the tailpipe.

so when you think about it the emissions might be better, but your burning lets say .2L extra ever mile well that in a life time of the truck for 15 years at 20 000 a year is 60 000 extra liters times all the trucks lets say for the past 8 years 2 000 000 were sold 120 000 000 000 extra liters not i'm not a grain but that is more coming out of the ground and getting burnt, now the factories need to make that more pollution ummm the face of the queen is the one that has the word!

 

[sledheadd]

Well you best come on out to the race tracks...We have 250 four strokes that put it on 250 two strokes. Let alone our 450s. They are the baddest dirt motorcycles ever built. Period.QUOTE]

I know this is a little off topic, but KTM 380s(50hp), KTM 440s(59hp), KTM 550s(61hp), CR500s(55hp) and KX500s(56hp) will put a spanking on a 450(right at or less than 50hp). And they were all built in the mid 90s. But I can see why you would think that a bike with a similar size engine with less power and is heavier is the baddest dirt bike ever.

I have a cr 500 with 75+hp now that is one bad mother.

 

[ridehard1212]

hi owen,
you want improvement? Tell your son to get cat to make a 200 hp turbo 4-stroke mtn sled, please!!!!!

i will second that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:d

 

[iliketoridefast]

back to superbike arguement, 4 strokes on average got 8 to 10 mph top end better than 2 stroke, but the people in charge of emissions wanted 4 stroke and that it easier for everyone to change. now that technology has come to the v-4 4 stroke motorcycle motors they backed the maximum cc to 800, and the bike must weigh 367 pounds. but in the smaller classes it is still a 125 2 stroke and a 250 2 stroke. explain that, cuz if a 4 stroke was faster there i think they would switch. back to dirt bike. if a 250 4 stroke beats a 250 2 stroke, i can blame the loss entirely on rider skill. not power. i have ridden with plenty of 4 strokes both 250 and 450. i have honestly never ridden a 125 2 stroke, but i did ride a 250 4 stroke and thought it was the most ball less, waste of 6 grand i have ever seen. when i raced against it, it wasnt even close. not much later he sold the bike, and as far as 450 having more power look up dynos on the internet, there most i have seen stock being compared to stock is 2 to 3 horsepower more. now throw in the weight diffference and i think its a pretty even playing field.

 

[AKrider]

I hope the OEM's do slow down with the coming out with all new chassis and models. It would be nice to keep a chassis around for more than 5 years so all the bugs get worked out of it.

The EPA regs are causing OEM's like Polaris to struggle because they have not kept up with the times and do not have a viable 4-stroke to build up emission credits. Their SDI like 4 injector system is fatally flawed and they can't get it to work reliably. That's why you see the CFI-2 on the new Rush.

Even with advances like the DI Ski-doo's, I don't see 2 strokes being the way of the future simply because they still emit oil into the atmosphere and they do not offer the engine longevity that a 4-stroke does. I would not be surprised to see the EPA start regulating the amount of oil that is emitted out of the exhaust and the 2-stroke will be dead. The OEM's are already having a difficult time with their 2 strokes and the lean air/fuel ratios required by EPA to meet emissions. Back in the 90's how many fan cooled sled s did you ever hear about burning down? Now they are having a difficult time just getting them to live long enough to get past the warranty period. Every year there seem to be more and more brand new, low milage EFI 2-strokes burning down then there were back in the 90's.

 

[high time]

We are and always have been the biggest source of R&D.

Yes, each current sled has some issues to work on, but that's not new sled development, that's fixing a sled released too soon.
I ran an '09 M-8, Sno-pro at IP this Jan. It had less that 100 miles on it. Set up at the factory for 8000'. It ran spot on. It basicly is about the same as an '07, but dialed in just fine. The '10 model will have a few more HP and a little lighter. That's great, if it works out.
I just don't believe we're going to gain much with a new chassis or more EPA reg motors. Untill this current sled wears completly out, I dout that there will be much incentive to buy new stuff.
Bob, not much chance of a factory two-stroke turbo. Four-stroke mountain.......yes, but it will never be as easy to handle as the current M-8.
I'm sure that in good hands they will be impresive climbers. You can have the heavy beasts for that, but I'll stick with a flickable lightweight two-stoke N/A. My M-8 can't climb with my 1000 King Cat ,but I still like it better. Easyier to start, quieter, easy to handle, makes this old man look good. Right, SJun?

Owen

 

[Clarke673]

Well you best come on out to the race tracks...We have 250 four strokes that put it on 250 two strokes. Let alone our 450s. They are the baddest dirt motorcycles ever built. Period.


QUOTE]

bull sh*t...

Most of the time a bike that makes half the power and is 40 more pounds doesn't do to well.

 

[H2SNOW]

reason # 45 why I am staying with a proven chassis ....and something that I already love ...just add little things here and there

 

[iliketoridefast]

new sled did work great for ya owen, your sled almost beat terry's m1000 in that bowl that we were climbing. that 09 m8 was dialed in perfect.
-niko

 

[FurryCURT]

I hope they do focus on little details for a while instead of trying to reinvent the wheel every 3 years. Anymore they don't get the bugs worked out of one model and they are on to the next

... couldn't agree more.... This is also the reason that we are paying double the price for sleds from 10 years ago... We are paying for the R&D and warranty issues up front... the mfgs know there will be teething problems so they add big money into the selling price to cover 2nd, 3rd and sometimes 4 motors on a new model...I refuse to buy a new model just for tht reason... get the problems fixed BEFORE you let it loose on the public... thanks.

 

[boondockerpro16]

I hope they do focus on little details for a while instead of trying to reinvent the wheel every 3 years. Anymore they don't get the bugs worked out of one model and they are on to the next

thats so true, they take a sled that shows amazing potential use it for a year and then change it. they should just keep refining the tried and trued.

 

[Hardass]

They have to change every thing because they can't fix what they have now so there forced to move on and let us deal with the past. AS GOOD AS IT GETS Broken cranks, burn downs , melted pistons, lean spots, back ordered parts. yep thats probably as good as it get allright it's been this way for some time why would it change. The new add reads, 2010 sled base price 10,500 assembled motor add 3500 rear skid that kind of works 1800(shocks extra) extra replacment parts negotiable BUt it come with lifetime supply of k-y absalutely free (55 gallon drum) HaHaha Yep i'm still riding old school my self, i built and repair ,if somethings wrong at least i know it's my own fault if i'm going to be broke down and needing parts i may as well have some power too. Oh i heard but not sure if it is true that if we all bought yamaha 4 stokes the parts companys would be out of buisness.

 

[JSun]

Easyier to start, quieter, easy to handle, makes this old man look good. Right, SJun?

Owen

That M8 ran well with you on it....

You should have never let anyone else race me with it.....