Synthetic Oil - why?

[clutch man]

here is a little from red line
Two-Cycle Snowmobile
Low-smoke formula, bio-degradable
Excellent cold flow, injects down to -40°F
Superior rust protection, adapts to latest pump fuels
Used as both a pre-mix and as an injected oil in Snowmobiles
Contain ester base oils with the highest film strength and affinity for hot metal
Increased power and excellent scuff protection
Provides the lubricating qualities of castors, but with exceptional cleanliness
Low carbon residue dramatically reduces plug fouling and smoke
Compatible with reformulated fuels
Each product works in both premix or injection systems

 

[AdrenalineAddict]

The fact that synthetics tolerate higher temps for longer periods without cooking is lost on a two stroke doesn't ring true to me, this is the biggest reason I run it in my sleds. I've got 14,000 miles on mu UBR 900's running nothing but Amsoil Dominator. When I lose a water pump belt on my old school Polaris motors (and usually don't notice until I have a serious boilover) I have been running a few minutes without cooling or oil injection. I want an oil that can take some serious heat and still maintain lubricity. I have had this happen several times in the last several years, I have never cooked my Amsoil or had any motor damage as a result. It's worth the extra protection in my opinion.

 

[clutch man]

The fact that synthetics tolerate higher temps for longer periods without cooking is lost on a two stroke doesn't ring true to me, this is the biggest reason I run it in my sleds. I've got 14,000 miles on mu UBR 900's running nothing but Amsoil Dominator. When I lose a water pump belt on my old school Polaris motors (and usually don't notice until I have a serious boilover) I have been running a few minutes without cooling or oil injection. I want an oil that can take some serious heat and still maintain lubricity. I have had this happen several times in the last several years, I have never cooked my Amsoil or had any motor damage as a result. It's worth the extra protection in my opinion.

I agree with 100% I did not have time this morning to respond to that.
Also i do not agree with what they say that it falls of in power faster. What i have found it is just not true, the motors hold there power longer.
AdrenalineAddict great post and thank you for the responds.
note UBR 900 is a hi compression motor.

 

[backcountryislife]

Good write up if you're selling legend oil

was that part less than obvious to anyone else?? It's not like it was a hidden agenda...

Did the logo under Q's name not give it away?


I truly hope you didn't come here in hopes of finding more customers, cause the way that you have presented yourself in this argument is not terribly impressive.

You work in a shop, which does offer you more experience than the average person, the thing you fail to get is that most of us ride with 100's of different people each year & we all are able to garner experience from all of those people that we ride with. We also see what works & doesn't, some from an anecdotal situation & some from real life, real time experience. Claiming that you know so much more than everybody else because you've torn down more motors than them is not exactly a useful metric.

Me, I run legend. I like it. I'd also switch back to interceptor if I couldn't get a deal on legend as I'm an amzoil dealer as well, so I could care less. I just find it funny how closed minded some folks are about something like which brand of slimy crap they mix in with their gas (and how much they mix in).


btw, is spell check not automatic on everyones computer? It's hard to miss all the red underlines when I mistype things on my computer. (so I go back & fix them so as to save the reader from the brain pain of reeding pore riting...)

 

[m8magicandmystery]

well i know most of Legands verbiage is way over my head..and i know N.A.S.A paid 850 dollars each during construction of the first space shuttle for a 'multi directional force applicator"...what was it..??..a plain small ball pien hammer..!!!...Legend seems to have the same sales team...jmho

 

[clutch man]

was that part less than obvious to anyone else?? It's not like it was a hidden agenda...

Did the logo under Q's name not give it away?


I truly hope you didn't come here in hopes of finding more customers, cause the way that you have presented yourself in this argument is not terribly impressive.

You work in a shop, which does offer you more experience than the average person, the thing you fail to get is that most of us ride with 100's of different people each year & we all are able to garner experience from all of those people that we ride with. We also see what works & doesn't, some from an anecdotal situation & some from real life, real time experience. Claiming that you know so much more than everybody else because you've torn down more motors than them is not exactly a useful metric.

Me, I run legend. I like it. I'd also switch back to interceptor if I couldn't get a deal on legend as I'm an amzoil dealer as well, so I could care less. I just find it funny how closed minded some folks are about something like which brand of slimy crap they mix in with their gas (and how much they mix in).


btw, is spell check not automatic on everyones computer? It's hard to miss all the red underlines when I mistype things on my computer. (so I go back & fix them so as to save the reader from the brain pain of reeding pore riting...)

Do you see any thing on any of my post where i am selling my self or my shop?
I unlike some others posts think that here it is a bit tacky.
I have more than enough work with word of mouth I damn sure don't need you.
I have posted nothing but what i have experienced and nothing more.
Well the last 2 posts, was just to let people see what i recommend but i am not trying to sell it to them.
if you don't like what i think don't read it, i don't give a chit about you.
if you don't like how i spell don't read it.

OH and it is AMSOIL AND NOT AMZOIL

 

[clutch man]

Originally Posted by backcountryislife
You work in a shop, which does offer you more experience than the average person, the thing you fail to get is that most of us ride with 100's of different people each year & we all are able to garner experience from all of those people that we ride with. We also see what works & doesn't, some from an anecdotal situation & some from real life, real time experience. Claiming that you know so much more than everybody else because you've torn down more motors than them is not exactly a useful metric.

I have way over a 100 costumers out there running Red Line or (Amsoil) spelled with an S not a Z. They give me feed back all the time, so I also have that too, to help people make up there own mind. I do not claim i know more than anyone. I am just showing my experience and what i have seen so people can make up there own mind.

 

[backcountryislife]

OH and it is AMSOIL AND NOT AMZOIL

touche!


As for you not claiming to know more than everybody else... read a few of your own posts, my comment wasn't based on a hint & a feeling, it was based on what you have written.

 

[OuraySledder]

touche!


As for you not claiming to know more than everybody else... read a few of your own posts, my comment wasn't based on a hint & a feeling, it was based on what you have written.

Yep, that is some funny chit.

Somehow, because I haven't rebuilt hundreds of engines, the extrapolation becomes that I don't know how to turn a wrench, and my opinion is completely worthless.

Boy you really got me there.

 

[AaronBND]

Opinions about oil are like azzholes................everybodies got one!

 

[snowmobiler]

wheres dan with his rusty syn crank pics?

 

[snowmobiler]

i know.dan is probably busy replacing rusty synthetic ran cranks

 

[clutch man]

I know, Cat recommends synthetic apv oil, yada yada.

I was looking for other, more convenient (local) options about a month ago so I called a few oil companies.

Valvoline tech line rep told me they don't make a synthetic two stroke snowmobile oil because there is no purpose - the oil gets used right away. They said it doesn't make sense to run synthetic in a 2-cycle because the one purpose of synthetic is that it will last longer, which isn't an issue in 2-cycle engines. Hey, I'm just relaying what they said.

This post is what everone going on here.

It is very simple the engineers that designed the new cat motors (they have more experience in that Field than you or me) gave the information for the needs of the motor to the oil manufacture that makes Arctic cat oil. They came up with what they feel is the best for the motor, a synthetic oil not a blend or petroleum.
If you like to run something that they don't recommend do it at your own risk.
FYI these forums our all IMO that is what a forum is.

 

[minecat]

Just because someone has a mod sled doesn't mean they know how to ride it.

Just because you rebuild snowmobile engines does not mean you are a petroleum engineer.

Funny, since you rebuild so many engines and reccomend synthetics, you seem to think you are right, and Indydan doing the same reccomending the opposite is wrong. Interesting huh?

In the end, there is still no scientific data or tests that confirm the notion that synthetic oils in your snowmobile will make the engine last longer or run better.

Again, if it makes you feel better, and you have the cash to waste, go for it.

For me, it doesn't make me feel better to spend money on something with no tangible benefits.

I wouldn't go as far as Indydan though and suggest people run the cheapest out there. What hasn't been said here is that the TWC-3 or whatever the designation is, isn't necessarily good snowmobile oil. It is good outboard oil but outboards do not see the same stresses or rpms a sled motor does. Definately buy an oil approved specifically for snowmobiles. I like the idea of using the sled manufacturers brand of dino. That way you get excellent protection, designed for your sled, at a lower cost than the synthetics. It isn't that the synthetics do not work, they obviously do. But what you need to ask yourself is, is it twice as good as the dino? Not in my estimation.

the only reason I am posting on htis matter is that is because your statement that an outboard doesnt see the same stresses is wrong IMO I have a promax 300x bored out to a 3.1 liter from 3.0 and it is held at 7400 RPM for quite a long time (15mins or more) and ther are other outboards that will spin RPMs up in hte high 8000 range and can sustane it there for more than a few minutes as well I haver never seen a sled held wide open as long as these outboards are

 

[White Rad]

wow if you replace "sled" w/ "diesel truck" this thread is the same as the one i just wasted my time reading on the DTR forum with all the amsoil cheerleaders. Until I have a major failure directly related to my oil i'm just going to keep running my john deer CI-4+ in the cummins and the APV in the sled give em hell and not worry about it...

 

[GangGreen]

Seems to be a lot of opinions on here about oil. I have had a few "mod' sleds. I have run synthetic and non synthetic oils I don’t know much about either. People that say that non synthetics don’t make your power valves stick or have no carbon build up must be doing something different than I was. I had to clean them very often. I now use Amsoil or Redline. I have had to rebuild motors almost every year pretty tough on them, But since I have been using synthetic oil I have not had to rebuild at all, Might be something else but I am not going to take a chance. And about cost, If you can’t afford to buy the correct fuel or oil dont mod your sled. Here is something that Cutlers say about oil. I think they know a little bit about it.
Oil Requirements There are many good oils out in the market place. CPC recommends the use of quality synthetic oils. Oil brands such as Arctic Cat APV Synthetic, Redline or Amsoil are ideal and can be purchased at CPC. Synthetic oils provide a 2 to 3 % gain in horsepower and torque over petroleum lubrications. CPC recommends the 40:1 fuel/oil mixture on all engines which have the oil pump disconnected. If you are using the oil injection as a source of lubrication, then we recommend mixing oil with the fuel at a 100:1 for additional protection and lubrication with each tank even after break-in!

 

[backcountryislife]

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thank god.

 

[clutch man]

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thank god.

I here that we doin't have to hear from him any more.

 

[clutch man]

Seems to be a lot of opinions on here about oil. I have had a few "mod' sleds. I have run synthetic and non synthetic oils I don’t know much about either. People that say that non synthetics don’t make your power valves stick or have no carbon build up must be doing something different than I was. I had to clean them very often. I now use Amsoil or Redline. I have had to rebuild motors almost every year pretty tough on them, But since I have been using synthetic oil I have not had to rebuild at all, Might be something else but I am not going to take a chance. And about cost, If you can’t afford to buy the correct fuel or oil dont mod your sled. Here is something that Cutlers say about oil. I think they know a little bit about it.
Oil Requirements There are many good oils out in the market place. CPC recommends the use of quality synthetic oils. Oil brands such as Arctic Cat APV Synthetic, Redline or Amsoil are ideal and can be purchased at CPC. Synthetic oils provide a 2 to 3 % gain in horsepower and torque over petroleum lubrications. CPC recommends the 40:1 fuel/oil mixture on all engines which have the oil pump disconnected. If you are using the oil injection as a source of lubrication, then we recommend mixing oil with the fuel at a 100:1 for additional protection and lubrication with each tank even after break-in!

Great feedback
I have found the same with the non synthetic just gets to much carbon on the power valves. Most places that build mod or big bore kits do recommend 40/1.
I am running my mod sled a 50/1 with great results. Allso have many more doing the same.