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Synthetic Oil - why?

well redline racing is what i have been running since the bigbore went in..it expensive as heck...11 bucks for 473 mil...so im buying a few bottles a month in the off season so it don.t hurt so bad in winter...i really like the smell...the clean burning...and my absolutely trouble free a/f guage operation which i do to some degree attribute to the clean burn
 
Every few years someone comes out with a mineral that is the best thing under the sun not IMO, a few years back it was blue marble. now it is legend but the facts our mineral oil first came out in the 30s but for a 2 stroke it leaves to much carbon when it burns, have seen it with blue marble.
I know that there in no oil manufactures that test there oil more than Amsoil and red line. They both our improving there oils all the time. Amsoil was the first to make synthetic oil and red line was not far behind.
I have taken apart motors run on mineral oil and have found more ware on them than ones on Amsoil Both 800 pol and both almost the same miles( Amsoil one had a few more miles plus it was modded and the other was not). The Amsoil sled had less wear.
 
Just to keep the facts straight here in this thread..........

Blue Marble is a Mineral based oil.

Legend Performance is a Mineral / Synthetic Hybrid.
 
now it is legend but the facts our mineral oil first came out in the 30s but for a 2 stroke it leaves to much carbon when it burns, have seen it with blue marble.

You obviously haven't run Legend, or you wouldn't make such a blanket statement like that. In our testing it's quite the opposite, even at the levels that we run it at.
 
The Amsoil sled had less wear.

Interesting. How EXACTLY did you determine this excess wear? I call BS. You have torn down a couple sleds, with a few thousand miles, and Amsoil is the best?

Funny how there is a guy in the midwest who has rebuilt hundreds, if not thousands of your beloved Poo 800 bottom ends, offers the only 3 yr warranty on his builds and has seriously considered voiding that warranty if you use Amsoil or any other synthetic. Hmmmmmmm.

I have run Amsoil, and Poo gold in my Poo's and now I run Cat green in my M7. I simply check the powervalves a couple times a season, they haven't needed much cleaning yet. I save at least $10 a gal and expect my sled will never have a crank failure due to oil.

To each his own, but the fact is, there is absolutely ZERO real world evidence that buying a high test synthetic 2 stroke oil gets you any benefit at all. Lots of guys insist, none with any proof. I can't see any reason to spend more.
 
This is one of those topics that everyone has an experience or "Feels" like they have or run the best stuff.

IMO I have over 15000 miles on Cenex Snowmax PV. $11.95/gal.

Also in my opinion the big guns Ie amsoil, redline, blue marble, etc have done a GREAT job advertising.

If you want to pay for that advertising and hype have at it.

O' almost forgot. 15000 miles on my sleds and have NEVER had to clean the power valves running 39:1.

Thunder
 
Interesting. How EXACTLY did you determine this excess wear? I call BS. You have torn down a couple sleds, with a few thousand miles, and Amsoil is the best?

Funny how there is a guy in the midwest who has rebuilt hundreds, if not thousands of your beloved Poo 800 bottom ends, offers the only 3 yr warranty on his builds and has seriously considered voiding that warranty if you use Amsoil or any other synthetic. Hmmmmmmm.

I have run Amsoil, and Poo gold in my Poo's and now I run Cat green in my M7. I simply check the powervalves a couple times a season, they haven't needed much cleaning yet. I save at least $10 a gal and expect my sled will never have a crank failure due to oil.

To each his own, but the fact is, there is absolutely ZERO real world evidence that buying a high test synthetic 2 stroke oil gets you any benefit at all. Lots of guys insist, none with any proof. I can't see any reason to spend more.

Funny how you take Indy Dans word as the bible. He is a very good engine builder but he is also very closed minded about certain things. He hates amsoil, so you do too! His big problem with it, is that it does little to prohibit corrosion in a stored engine. For years almost all synthetics had no corrosion resistance and half the guys in this area store their sleds under covers that hold moisture in....thats a bad thing to do! Synthetics are mostly mineral based, but take the heat much better than straight mineral oil. Three thousand miles on my 900 and never cleaned the valves, checked them but never cleaned, 50/1 amsoil interseptor. That does not make it the best, but far from the worst. If you are more concerend with how much of the oil burns compared to how much get run throught the exhasut, then "maybe" you're right, mineral oils do burn better. (I don't think so) I'm more concerened that my crank and wrist pins are getting protected and synthetics do a better job at that. You don't have to run a crank submerged in oil as long as the oil will hold a film on the bearing. Almost all the new diesel engines require a syntetic or a blend oil. This is due to the extra heat and pressures in todays engines to meet the new emissions. The oil companys were happy selling their mineral oils but found out they would break down too fast in todays extra demand engines. All of the "mineral" oils run a lot of additives to build their oils into something that will work, so basically they are semi synthetic!
 
I went thru 10 gallons this season myself and its 25-30 dollar a gallon blend for me , they can keep the 40-50 buck stuff or redline at 70, my sleds ran great all winter and I didnt mess with the factory settings at 28-29:1. I changed my plugs once but it was unnecessary a waste.
 
Funny how you take Indy Dans word as the bible. He is a very good engine builder but he is also very closed minded about certain things. He hates amsoil, so you do too! His big problem with it, is that it does little to prohibit corrosion in a stored engine. For years almost all synthetics had no corrosion resistance and half the guys in this area store their sleds under covers that hold moisture in....thats a bad thing to do! Synthetics are mostly mineral based, but take the heat much better than straight mineral oil. Three thousand miles on my 900 and never cleaned the valves, checked them but never cleaned, 50/1 amsoil interseptor. That does not make it the best, but far from the worst. If you are more concerend with how much of the oil burns compared to how much get run throught the exhasut, then "maybe" you're right, mineral oils do burn better. (I don't think so) I'm more concerened that my crank and wrist pins are getting protected and synthetics do a better job at that. You don't have to run a crank submerged in oil as long as the oil will hold a film on the bearing. Almost all the new diesel engines require a syntetic or a blend oil. This is due to the extra heat and pressures in todays engines to meet the new emissions. The oil companys were happy selling their mineral oils but found out they would break down too fast in todays extra demand engines. All of the "mineral" oils run a lot of additives to build their oils into something that will work, so basically they are semi synthetic!


Funny how you seem to have a reading and comprehension problem...Did you read the part where I ran Amsoil and Polaris synthetics in my 2 800 RMK's? Did I mention that I never had a problem in 5 years of extremely hard mountain riding?

I brought up Indydan to illustrate clutch mans relative lack of experience on the subject.

I have read both sides of the issue. I have read sides of the issue that haven't even been touched on here, and I have made my decision. I don't run the cheapest, but I don't spend money on synthetics because there is NO evidence it is an advantage in a two stroke snowmobile.

You contradict yourself in your rant as well. You acknowledge that mineral coats things better but then claim synthetics coat your bearings better???? Then you state that synthetcis are mostly made up of mineral oil????

I don't hate Amsoil, I have spent THOUSANDS of my dollars on thier products. What I do not care for is clowns that come on, try to take a shot and in the process display a lot of ignorance. Congratulations, you made the club.
 
Funny how you take Indy Dans word as the bible. He is a very good engine builder but he is also very closed minded about certain things. He hates amsoil, so you do too! His big problem with it, is that it does little to prohibit corrosion in a stored engine. For years almost all synthetics had no corrosion resistance and half the guys in this area store their sleds under covers that hold moisture in....thats a bad thing to do! Synthetics are mostly mineral based, but take the heat much better than straight mineral oil. Three thousand miles on my 900 and never cleaned the valves, checked them but never cleaned, 50/1 amsoil interseptor. That does not make it the best, but far from the worst. If you are more concerend with how much of the oil burns compared to how much get run throught the exhasut, then "maybe" you're right, mineral oils do burn better. (I don't think so) I'm more concerened that my crank and wrist pins are getting protected and synthetics do a better job at that. You don't have to run a crank submerged in oil as long as the oil will hold a film on the bearing. Almost all the new diesel engines require a syntetic or a blend oil. This is due to the extra heat and pressures in todays engines to meet the new emissions. The oil companys were happy selling their mineral oils but found out they would break down too fast in todays extra demand engines. All of the "mineral" oils run a lot of additives to build their oils into something that will work, so basically they are semi synthetic!

First of all OuraySledder i my self have rebuilt hundreds of 2 stroke snowmobiles ( run a repair shop). The 2 800 Polaris motor was a test i did my self, the two sled ran together most of the time so also in the same conditions. I have many pol 800 out there i rebuilt, (the ill fated crank motor) I do not do the big bearing kit like Indy Dan and all run Amsoil at 50/1 no problems. some our getting to high miles too.
Thank you digger people need to get a mind of there own.You hit the nail on the head, thanks for responding.

It takes the better oils to lube the crank bearing and with using a better oil you can run it with less oil it just does a better job.
I am more concerned about the crank than the top end, if the crank gets the proper lube the pistons do too.
 
Before you make a statement like this you should do some research I started my LLC in 1999 and 10 years before that i was doing snowmobile repairs I do not have lack of experience.

I brought up Indydan to illustrate clutch mans relative lack of experience on the subject.

QUOTE]
 
First of all OuraySledder i my self have rebuilt hundreds of 2 stroke snowmobiles ( run a repair shop). The 2 800 Polaris motor was a test i did my self, the two sled ran together most of the time so also in the same conditions. I have many pol 800 out there i rebuilt, (the ill fated crank motor) I do not do the big bearing kit like Indy Dan and all run Amsoil at 50/1 no problems. some our getting to high miles too.

So...some are not?

Couldn't you save money on oil and put it towards rebuilds if it is going to blow anyway?

Thank you digger people need to get a mind of there own.You hit the nail on the head, thanks for responding.

Another poster with a reading and comprehension problem...not to mention spelling.

Indydan's comments are but a small part of the research I have done. Sounds like you let Amsoil do yours huh? They call that MARKETING. Looks like it works.

It takes the better oils to lube the crank bearing and with using a better oil you can run it with less oil it just does a better job.
I am more concerned about the crank than the top end, if the crank gets the proper lube the pistons do too.

So are you a petroleum engineer on the side? Where do some of you people get off just reciting BS with no basis?

I don't care what anybody runs in their sled. I think it is incredibly irresponsible to insist "synthetics are the best" with NO scientific basis for that claim.

They have a place in hundreds of applications. That does not make them the best for your snowmobile. There is definately no evidence to suggest that if you run synthetic in your seld that it will definately last longer than a quality dino oil. If spending the extra makes you feel good, I say go for it.

Until somebody posts a fact based comparison, the argument is pointless.
 
Indydan's comments are but a small part of the research I have done. Sounds like you let Amsoil do yours huh? They call that MARKETING. Looks like it works.





Until somebody posts a fact based comparison, the argument is pointless.

I DID MY OWN RESEARCH AND I LIKE MAKE UP MY OWN MIND AND I DO NOT TRUST ANYONES ELSE'S RESEARCH.
 
syn

Funny how all the companies are going to syn.Why because they do work better.Besides 2 strokes do not burn all the oil anyway.On the dirt bike it drips out of the exhaust...I will stick to synthetics because the research is there and they are better.......
 
Those of you who do your own testing, how many miles are you getting before engine failure or top end?
 
Those of you who do your own testing, how many miles are you getting before engine failure or top end?

I don't run them until they fail they our rebuilt at or about 5000 miles. none of my motors have failed in the past 10 years. That is also when I started with Red line and Amsoil, GO FIGURE.
5000 miles is the norm that manufactures say to rebuild.
 
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