Snowchecked a Pro-RMK, should I go with the Cammo Challenger Extreme?

[AKSNOWRIDER]

What He said^^^

That MORE than doubles the clearance compared to running the 8 tooth 2.86" pitch drivers with the 2.5" CE track.

to do the PC with 7 t. drivers..you need drivers, anti stab kit, cut rails back, trim mini lugs in PC ....steeper aproach angle,
with the 2.5 camo..and kurts(fastrax motorsports) D&R, you gain over 1 and 1/16 in track to tunnel clearence, stock drivers work fine, way better aproach angle, sled climbs on top in deep snow better then stock...you also have the option to go to a 3 in track if you want..it will bolt right in...
dollar for dollar, and labor for labor..they work out to be about the same cost..and a big advantage of the extreme..it is a very strong durable track...where as the PC has had quite a few reports of damage, and ripped in half..both tracks are good..but I think the extreme shines in far more types of snow then any other track..but it is a heavier track..(on my 08 D-8 163 I get the same track speed as I did with the 5.1..yet the sled goes far better then it did with the 5.1......I had more problems with trenching with the 5.1 and stock clutching then I have had with the extreme..and that was fixed with minor clutching changes... also ..the extreme stops much better down hill then the stock track...
and I started out wanting the PC..but after riding with a couple 09 M-8's.. and a dragon 7 with a 2.5 163 camo extreme..the extreme was far more impressive in our snow..JMHO......

 

[Scott]

If I happen to sell my buggy before these come in next fall, I will be doing this.

 

[mountainhorse]

AK... Where did the PC track come into play on this thread???

 

[theultrarider]

May have been the talk of the 3.0 drivers that comfused him.

 

[AKSNOWRIDER]

AK... Where did the PC track come into play on this thread???

just sharing what I have seen out there MH..I know you prefer the Pc and recommend it , and that was where I was headed with mine last year till I got to ride with them..still think the extreme is a better track then both the pc and the 5.1...although I would like to try a cut and screwed 5.1 just to see the difference it makes...sorry for invading your thread...

 

[mountainhorse]

AK..

Not "MY" thread... open discussion... I just didn't know where the PC came into play.

You make a very good point about the cost of running a PC track... pretty expensive. You always have good stuff to add to threads that makes this forum a better place (sincerely).

Actually... I don't really have a steadfast pref... all the tracks have plus's and minus's...

The Ch extreme is great but has the clearance issue... The PC is great but the downhill braking is not ideal (the 90 duro is Much better than it's 80 duro brother)

Heck... Even the lowly A-20 shines... it's specialty is deep fluff.

The new Pro RMK will be nearly impossible to Drop/Roll as the jackshaft is practically lying on the tunnel... Robbie might be making a billet chaincase for these sleds this year... time will tell... The last conversation I had with Curt was that He was not going to do a D&R for this sled.... Plus.. as fine tuned as this sled is, I'm not sure that a D&R would not adversly affect the handling of this sled.

 

[AKSNOWRIDER]

AK..

Not "MY" thread... open discussion... I just didn't know where the PC came into play.

You make a very good point about the cost of running a PC track... pretty expensive. You always have good stuff to add to threads that makes this forum a better place (sincerely).

Actually... I don't really have a steadfast pref... all the tracks have plus's and minus's...

The Ch extreme is great but has the clearance issue... The PC is great but the downhill braking is not ideal (the 90 duro is Much better than it's 80 duro brother)

Heck... Even the lowly A-20 shines... it's specialty is deep fluff.

The new Pro RMK will be nearly impossible to Drop/Roll as the jackshaft is practically lying on the tunnel... Robbie might be making a billet chaincase for these sleds this year... time will tell... The last conversation I had with Curt was that He was not going to do a D&R for this sled.... Plus.. as fine tuned as this sled is, I'm not sure that a D&R would not adversly affect the handling of this sled.

Mh..should be able to just drop in a dragon case I would think...and they said the same about tweeking out the dragon handling with the D&R as well...and personally I thing it handles better...took out most of that twitchyness when climbing off camber..but it might just be that this sled will benifit more from f-bombing the stock track...(robs mod).. I also think it wouldnt be to hard to shorten the coolers 6 inches up front to gain the tunnel clearence you need if you cant easily do a D&R..like everything there are many ways to get to the same end..just gotta figure out what is most effective..I would like to try a 3in..just to see how it works..I know the doo boys are sure happy with them...
I havent gotten a chance to have a hands on look at one yet(polaris is pissed at alaska right now..) so I will have to wait till next season to see one up close...

 

[F-Bomb]

you guys should try an interesting test......

no load data log top track speed and RPM run on all the lug lengths and patterns within a specific enviroment (stock tunnel stock drivers).....

Do so and then please report back to me what I already know...HUH? wink wink

now load the track (water load test is the easiest if you don't have a chassis dyno or resistance drum setup)

Now add HP to the test to see where the cap in performance is. There is a no load cap and a load cap but they are not equally linear. Also at a certain HP and physical mechanical system (gearing transmission) the improvement curve flattens to no return or improvement and at a point can actually dimenish.

There are several "laws" commonly used in basic ecomomic theory that directly apply to this more physical mechanical situation.

 

[aebsledder]

you guys should try an interesting test......

no load data log top track speed and RPM run on all the lug lengths and patterns within a specific enviroment (stock tunnel stock drivers).....

Do so and then please report back to me what I already know...HUH? wink wink

now load the track (water load test is the easiest if you don't have a chassis dyno or resistance drum setup)

Now add HP to the test to see where the cap in performance is. There is a no load cap and a load cap but they are not equally linear. Also at a certain HP and physical mechanical system (gearing transmission) the improvement curve flattens to no return or improvement and at a point can actually dimenish.

There are several "laws" commonly used in basic ecomomic theory that directly apply to this more physical mechanical situation.

Jeez, Check out the big brain on F-Bomb! I was so lost on that explanation I had to take a break while reading it. The only flaw I found in that theory is that you misspelled diminish. Hey, nobody is perfect.:

 

[Scott]

Oh no, he spelled diminish wrong too. LOL

 

[mountainhorse]

Rob...You are a funny guy... (wink)

AK...

The dragon case wont fit in the new chassis...not without huge work...; the jackshaft wont fit and the brake is on the wrong side of the case. The Dragon case is a bit longer and mounting would take some spacer fabrication and serious head scratching.

The new rear suspension has different swing arm lengths and tunnel mounting locations.

According to the engineers at Polaris and Holz (pretty much a knock off of the Alpha X geometry/lengths)... This setup will be much more sensitive to relocation of the driveshaft center in relation to the remainder of the chassis F&R suspension mounting positions. This was the reason that Mark only developed a 5/8" drop for the IQ's because he still wanted it to be compatible with his new skid and not throw off the overall handling of the sled.

In this new, more evolved chassis, big changes (ie "mods") have more potential to cause problems than in the past...IMO

I just got off the phone with Camoplast (1.5hr convo)... I'll be posting up some good info in another thread this week about tracks, clearance, tension etc... life is good!!

BTW AK... Have you posted up any good pix of your sled with that Trail tank and custom tunnel on it? I cant seem to find any.

 

[diamonddave]

Do so and then please report back to me what I already know...HUH? wink wink

Why not dazzle us with your brilliance?

There are several "laws" commonly used in basic ecomomic theory that directly apply to this more physical mechanical situation.

ax^2+bx+c

let's see em...

 

[RMK935VA]

The Challenger Extreme is a better all season track but it is significantly heavier than the Polaris track if I am not mistaken. I ran the Challenger Extreme on my 08 Dragon (ported, piped, etc.) and I thought that it did not have enough power to pull it as well as it should have. With that being said, I now have the same track on my 09 Turbo Dragon and it rips. Like MH says, it is an apples and oranges comparison between a turbo and non turbo sled. If I was not going to put a turbo on the new 800, I would stay with the Polaris track or put a PowerClaw on it. The Cat track works pretty well but I don't like the downhill braking perfomance on them in harder snonw. They are not even close to the Challenger Extreme in that regard and neither is the Polaris track.

 

[MORSNO]

BTW AK... Have you posted up any good pix of your sled with that Trail tank and custom tunnel on it? I cant seem to find any.

MH, The pictures of AKSnowriders custom tunnel supports with the Trail tank used to be in this thread.
http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/showthread.php?t=189130 I think the pics were all removed when this site went to a paid forum. Hopefully someday he will return to posting informative threads like that. He was one of the knowledgeable contributers who was known to help others (just like yourself), especially with clutching and wrenching.

 

[theultrarider]

BTW AK... Have you posted up any good pix of your sled with that Trail tank and custom tunnel on it? I cant seem to find any.
__________________

Lots of pics of his sled over on the other site that we can't speak of here.

 

[AKSNOWRIDER]

Rob...You are a funny guy... (wink)

AK...

The dragon case wont fit in the new chassis...not without huge work...; the jackshaft wont fit and the brake is on the wrong side of the case. The Dragon case is a bit longer and mounting would take some spacer fabrication and serious head scratching.

The new rear suspension has different swing arm lengths and tunnel mounting locations.

According to the engineers at Polaris and Holz (pretty much a knock off of the Alpha X geometry/lengths)... This setup will be much more sensitive to relocation of the driveshaft center in relation to the remainder of the chassis F&R suspension mounting positions. This was the reason that Mark only developed a 5/8" drop for the IQ's because he still wanted it to be compatible with his new skid and not throw off the overall handling of the sled.

In this new, more evolved chassis, big changes (ie "mods") have more potential to cause problems than in the past...IMO

I just got off the phone with Camoplast (1.5hr convo)... I'll be posting up some good info in another thread this week about tracks, clearance, tension etc... life is good!!

BTW AK... Have you posted up any good pix of your sled with that Trail tank and custom tunnel on it? I cant seem to find any.

yeah i knew the case would be a little work..but not bad really...I have always disliked "bolt on stuff" just doesnt seem like things are done as good as could be on most things..and coming from a race car fabricating past I prefer mods that look like the factory did it(or should have done it)..but one more stab on a simple pro sled mod...this would be the faster easier way to do it...

If you dont mind going to a longer track(Ie 155 to a 163 or 163 to a 174), remove the tunnel from the bulkhead, slide it back 5-7 inches, build new tunnel side overlays(as my dragon is) out of 1/8 in and a new frt top of the tunnel closure..this would move the coolers back(see above pics) and get them away from the track at the critical close area at the frt of the tunnel..(easily gaining at least 1/2 in of track/tunnel clearance up top) avoiding having to do a drop and roll or smaller drivers while vastly strengthening the tunnel(which are often bent easily), wont alter suspension/handling characteristics, and if done right wont add much if any for weight(my dragon gained aprox(on bathroom scales) 4 pds total not counting the bumper(I did run the polaris steel hitch bumper which weighed 10 pds more then the aluminum bumper I built) and while I understand this mod is a bit much for the average home mechanic..it really isnt a hard project..and anyone who is capable of replacing a tunnel can easily do this mod...(with the right rails a person could also acheive a very good aproach angle as well) just another idea on skinning that cat...



MH, as for pics of my sled? well there are a pile of them as ultrarider said on another forum..if you truly want some pics of it..pm me and I will get you some..but at this time I prefer to keep my personal pics and tech stuff off the forum here(yes I do chime in and help peeps when I think I can help and I think it would be apreciated..)someday I may feel better about posting more stuff on the forum..

 

[AKSNOWRIDER]

MH, The pictures of AKSnowriders custom tunnel supports with the Trail tank used to be in this thread.
http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/showthread.php?t=189130 I think the pics were all removed when this site went to a paid forum. Hopefully someday he will return to posting informative threads like that. He was one of the knowledgeable contributers who was known to help others (just like yourself), especially with clutching and wrenching.

thank you MORSNO..I do enjoy helping others...just as I enjoy building things..

 

[aebsledder]

MH, The pictures of AKSnowriders custom tunnel supports with the Trail tank used to be in this thread.
http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/showthread.php?t=189130 I think the pics were all removed when this site went to a paid forum. Hopefully someday he will return to posting informative threads like that. He was one of the knowledgeable contributers who was known to help others (just like yourself), especially with clutching and wrenching.

Yep, X2

 

[mountainhorse]

Thanks for the pics... I hope things DO get better here for you and you want to share more... I respect your position.

Dang... those are some long "skid marks"... and that track has shorter lugs than the camo ext, right? (A bit of rubbing going on before the D&R?)

I can see the D&R in the pics... but dont see the coolers moved back... what am I missing?

Also, with the coolers moved back, how did you run the coolant lines? Stock, they rest against the fuel tank as is. Did you install running board edge coolers as well and close off the front in/out hose connections?

 

[AKSNOWRIDER]

Thanks for the pics... I hope things DO get better here for you and you want to share more... I respect your position.

Dang... those are some long "skid marks"... and that track has shorter lugs than the camo ext, right? (A bit of rubbing going on before the D&R?)

I can see the D&R in the pics... but dont see the coolers moved back... what am I missing?

Also, with the coolers moved back, how did you run the coolant lines? Stock, they rest against the fuel tank as is. Did you install running board edge coolers as well and close off the front in/out hose connections?

MH, I didnt mod the coolers on my dragon..but it is a way to do the pro..(I had thought about doing it to my dragon and going to a 174...when I was doing the D&R)you would have to figure out the cooler connectors but that should be a minor problem as well(ovaling the lines until clear of the tank comes to mind)..could also french the lines partly into the new extension up frt until clear of the tank..when i get one in the shop this fall I will take a closer look, just to see...