Snow Science Thread

[mtnpull]

Thanks MVR!

I think what MVR is saying is REALLY, REALLY, REALLY, important. I have seen it many times where people take an avy class or two and think they know everything there is to know about avalanches. If you think you know enough about avalanches, you have already made a mistake. Likewise, by reading through this thread does not make an expert. It is a start and an opportunity to learn and grow. Even with my avy background and experience I follow the suggestions made by MVR in own personal decision making on the mountain. His post is worth reading a couple times over.

 

[Prank Monkey]

One of the best posts I have ever read on here. Thank you.

A little bump to the top...

 

[modsledr]

Thanks MVR!

I think what MVR is saying is REALLY, REALLY, REALLY, important. I have seen it many times where people take an avy class or two and think they know everything there is to know about avalanches. If you think you know enough about avalanches, you have already made a mistake. Likewise, by reading through this thread does not make an expert. It is a start and an opportunity to learn and grow. Even with my avy background and experience I follow the suggestions made by MVR in own personal decision making on the mountain. His post is worth reading a couple times over.

These are great points...when assisting with classes here in WA, we are regularly asked about "on the snow" classes to learn about analyzing snow, digging snow pits, etc...

The answer is always that we would rather teach recognition and avoidance (learning the human factors that lead to accidents, and how to avoid them, for example) rather than detailed snow analysis.

The thinking to us is that unless you are willing to dig a pit on EVERY aspect you are riding, at the time you are riding it, then it is a waste of time and can lead to a false sense of security.

Thanks again for a great thread!!

 

[bushy]

Great thread! Sources/references too please

 

[PhantomCat]

Thanks MVR!

I think what MVR is saying is REALLY, REALLY, REALLY, important. I have seen it many times where people take an avy class or two and think they know everything there is to know about avalanches. If you think you know enough about avalanches, you have already made a mistake. Likewise, by reading through this thread does not make an expert. It is a start and an opportunity to learn and grow. Even with my avy background and experience I follow the suggestions made by MVR in own personal decision making on the mountain. His post is worth reading a couple times over.

I agree...there is so much info and wealth of information regarding avys and the structure of the mechanics of snow that the info can be overwhelming and mind boggling. You need to pursue your own path of leadership in your group, and for your own self preservation. YOU need to come to an understanding of what is important to you and the people you ride with

I have been reading books...taking courses...and serving on an avy board. I still have just scratched the surface of the avy mechanics and geometry. I love snow, and I love how it can react to different temps and climate changes. I love how the different crystals can predict the future, but I still don't have all the answers that make up all the multitudes of avys and avy dangers. I have a common description of event, but not the full picture.

That, my fellow friends...is the key to understanding avys, what staying alive in avy terrain is all about !!!

A BIG THANK YOU goes out top mtnpull, for starting this thread...I love snow science and continue to work every day, to better my self and the ones around me !

Thanks again......great topic !

 

[duffman]

I hate to see this thread get left behind. There are some very nasty avalanche conditions set up in Washington right now, it is a good time to be thinking about this. I took a scout ride into my favorite area yesterday, and saw a very large slide on a slope that I would not have thought would let go, and have never seen slide in ten years. The angle of this particular slope is right in the danger zone, but the snow depth is still low and it is covered with lots of timber and brush (I thought enough to anchor the low snow). The general snowpack there is about 18" of the old crusted layer plus 18-24" of new. It was the new layer that had slid, and the avalanche had propigated at least 100 yards on a brushy, timbered slope.

Many of the steeper aspects that always slide had not lot go yet, and it was very easy to induce propagation cracks in in small relatively shallow slopes. Scary stuff.

 

[CatWoman]

I think this is a good time to bring this back up, and get some more discussion......as well as help with awareness.

 

[mtnpull]

Good call. Avy conditions across the west is about as bad as it gets. Let's ride smart out there.

 

[xrated]

back to trigger points and rocks.....

can large rock outcroppings or just large rocks, lead to a weaker snow layer around them? Not just due to the snow not bonding to rock. Can large rocks absorb heat from the sun and thus cause melting and freezing of the immediate snow pack throughout the day and night?