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PalousePoo
Well-known member
Thinking of getting an air bag pack this year. Looks like the snowpulse comes around your head better and would help against impacts on rocks and/or trees while in an avy? Opinions please.
Snow Pulse vs ABS for head protection
- Thread starter PalousePoo
- Start date
The SnowPulse will do exactly that, if offers more protection against head/neck/spine trauma. It keeps you floating head-up. The ABS doesn't have the head protection, but it does have its advantage. ABS keeps you floating in a horizontal position, rather than leaving most of your body dangling down further to possibly hit rocks, debris, etc. So either pack has its advantages, it's more a question of whether you want to have your head/neck protected, or the rest of your body floating more "level" with the slide. Both are very good packs.
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PalousePoo
Well-known member
OK, what about if you're floating head down with an ABS, how possible is it your head could still be in the snow? Do you sell Snowpulse packs? I only see ABS ones on your site. Thanks
PP,
ABS has 26 years of research invested in their system. In that time there hasn't been 1 case of head or neck injury. Snowpulse claims you will have less head injury. I haven't seen any stats to support this claim. It appears to to be an opinion based on the senario of avalanches that skiers were in wearing no protection.
Do you realize that if you were in an avalanche & wearing a snowpulse you would be travelling down the avalanche back first, in more of a standing position??? This pack doesn't give any protection to your back, spine or torso as you are heading down the avalanche. As a snowmobiler, I assume you already wear a helmet?
An avalanche has many layers that move at different speeds. When in one you want to try and stay in the top layer to minimize injury. ABS keeps you on your stomach within the top layer. With the other one you may have some increased head protection, but you have greatly increased your chances of other trauma, because you are now in different layers of the avalanche.
Do your research, look at stats and buy the one that you feel will work for you.
Snowbigdeal should be able to fix you up.
RMX
ABS has 26 years of research invested in their system. In that time there hasn't been 1 case of head or neck injury. Snowpulse claims you will have less head injury. I haven't seen any stats to support this claim. It appears to to be an opinion based on the senario of avalanches that skiers were in wearing no protection.
Do you realize that if you were in an avalanche & wearing a snowpulse you would be travelling down the avalanche back first, in more of a standing position??? This pack doesn't give any protection to your back, spine or torso as you are heading down the avalanche. As a snowmobiler, I assume you already wear a helmet?
An avalanche has many layers that move at different speeds. When in one you want to try and stay in the top layer to minimize injury. ABS keeps you on your stomach within the top layer. With the other one you may have some increased head protection, but you have greatly increased your chances of other trauma, because you are now in different layers of the avalanche.
Do your research, look at stats and buy the one that you feel will work for you.
Snowbigdeal should be able to fix you up.
RMX
For me it is a question of TESTED reliability. The ABS has been around a while and i have actually seen the test video from ABS on how it worked in a real life scenario. Also countless claims of guys who have had their lives saved by the ABS.
As for neck, back, and head trauma i think you might be a little misled on whether or not it will actually protect you any better than the ABS. My personal opinion is i would rather be floating on top than vertical throughout the slide, thats just my opinion.
The other thing i would like to know about the Snowpulse is what happens to compressed O2 when it is sub zero outside ? How does this affect the trigger mechanism, can it freeze ? I like the nitrogen idea. I always TRY and blow off both my ABS bags once a year for not only peace of mind but to change out the T handles. Yes it may or may not be a little more expensive we will see but i don't cheap out when it comes to this kind of stuff.
Having said that i have seen a couple of Snowpulse bags at the Edmonton show that did not deploy until the user pulled the handle like 4 times. Take it for what its worth, maybe jack all.
This thread will just become a bashing thread, so let me be the first to start it off !
As for neck, back, and head trauma i think you might be a little misled on whether or not it will actually protect you any better than the ABS. My personal opinion is i would rather be floating on top than vertical throughout the slide, thats just my opinion.
The other thing i would like to know about the Snowpulse is what happens to compressed O2 when it is sub zero outside ? How does this affect the trigger mechanism, can it freeze ? I like the nitrogen idea. I always TRY and blow off both my ABS bags once a year for not only peace of mind but to change out the T handles. Yes it may or may not be a little more expensive we will see but i don't cheap out when it comes to this kind of stuff.
Having said that i have seen a couple of Snowpulse bags at the Edmonton show that did not deploy until the user pulled the handle like 4 times. Take it for what its worth, maybe jack all.
This thread will just become a bashing thread, so let me be the first to start it off !
this year the ABS packs are only $40 to exchange (if you have the yelow canister)
$100 if you have the black, but you can exchange it for the yellow, so next time it is cheaper
Kirsti @ Bow Cycle South helped me out
I bought my bag used (not even from their store) and she and another dude (sorry cant remember his name) literally spent 30+ mins. w me, explaining how the bag worked etc....STAND UP IMO
tested it right in the store and everything worked great
I think any bag is better than none - you choose the one that you think is best
I personally liked the ABS Escape 15L - its perfect
one thing i had to get used to - these things (AVY bags in general) ARE HEAVY!!!!
fully loaded they weight a tonne
after you drink your water, Gatorade and eat ur food its ok, but in the AM watch out!! hahah!
$100 if you have the black, but you can exchange it for the yellow, so next time it is cheaper
Kirsti @ Bow Cycle South helped me out
I bought my bag used (not even from their store) and she and another dude (sorry cant remember his name) literally spent 30+ mins. w me, explaining how the bag worked etc....STAND UP IMO
tested it right in the store and everything worked great
I think any bag is better than none - you choose the one that you think is best
I personally liked the ABS Escape 15L - its perfect
one thing i had to get used to - these things (AVY bags in general) ARE HEAVY!!!!
fully loaded they weight a tonne
after you drink your water, Gatorade and eat ur food its ok, but in the AM watch out!! hahah!
If you're floating head down, it is possible your head could still be under the snow, but probably only a few inches. Much better than a few feet. So you could most likely be able to push up out of the snow fairly easily.
And yes, we do carry SnowPulse packs. We ran out of stock so we pulled them off the website for now. We're expecting more very soon (today or tomorrow hopefully) and they will be up on the website as soon as they show up.
The SnowPulse doesn't have a trigger mechanism like the ABS does, so there are no worries with the trigger connection freezing. The canister is attached directly to the pull-cord by 2 threaded connections, not a quick-connect. Nitrogen does perform better in extreme cold. SnowPulse has taken this into consideration and has made their canisters a bit larger, so as not to be affected as much by the cold.
Again, both ABS and SnowPulse are excellent packs. Each pack has its advantages. Feel free to call and talk about the packs over the phone if you'd like.
ABS here. Tried and true.
I don't care what anyone is saying about "improved results" with different models. The proof is in the years of results and research.
I don't care what anyone is saying about "improved results" with different models. The proof is in the years of results and research.
I like the idea of the snowpulse not just for the head protection but because it uses regular air.
It is also my understanding that once the snowpulse bags are full of air that the rest of the air in the bottle continues to seep out until the bottle is empty. Once the bottle is empty then the bags would deflate slowly leaving a big pocket of space around my head.
I can imagine that fresh air seeping out into the area around my head means more time for me to stay awake and alive.
It is also my understanding that once the snowpulse bags are full of air that the rest of the air in the bottle continues to seep out until the bottle is empty. Once the bottle is empty then the bags would deflate slowly leaving a big pocket of space around my head.
I can imagine that fresh air seeping out into the area around my head means more time for me to stay awake and alive.
C
cobbycat
ACCOUNT CLOSED
I wonder if anyone is worried about the price of refills as they pull the cord while sliding down a mountain with many tons of snow surrounding them. personally, I own the ABS due to their extensive history in the avy game, but I think having one is important regardless of the brand. with that said, we have the snowpulse packs in stock at c3 powersports, and even just the upgrades from last year are huge. be safe all.
I'm with you on your assesment. It seems more valuable to have excess air and potentially a huge pocket around your head once the bags deflate if you are buried. Only time and a few burials will tell the truth.
This thread kinda seems weird that we're talking about head proetction when we all wear helmets riding.
This thread kinda seems weird that we're talking about head proetction when we all wear helmets riding.
I think people are justified in the complaints about pricing. I am also a technical scuba diver and my most expensive Buoyancy Control Device is $650. It saves my life every time I wear it.
There doesn't seem to be a rational for charging as much as they do other than captive market and little competition. I am looking forward to BCA's product $500-700. Let's face it you really don 't know what Avy back will do until you're in an avalanche, unfortunately.
I think you will be long dead by the time the air deflates out of that bag ! As far as regular air in the snowpulse, that is/would be my biggest concern. Air being compressed builds condensation which can/will freeze ?? This is a argument that you don't hear much about. I'll take the expensive Nitrogen please ! It always amazes me how people ride around on 40,000 dollar mod sleds and they think saving 300 hundy on a bag is what it takes to get them to buy one !!! An Avy bag should be mandatory and is every bit as important as a beacon, shovel, probe, PERIOD !
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if i have to trigger the bag, it had better inflate, if the bag inflates who is worried about being under the snow, it should keep you up on top of the slide, if your bag is inflated and you are barried that deep something is wrong, it good to see more bags on the market and the price coming down on sum but i will put my money on proven equipment, ABS i think they are all good, just dont have the track record that ABS dose .
giddyup
giddyup
Facts
First of all, Avy training is the most important. Train the brain.
Second of all, the snowpulse shows signs of deflation within 5 minutes. Your brain show signs of brain damage after 15. If you were dumped into a terrain trap, in which no airbag will float you, I think you would wish you had some "air" to breath.
Last but not least, The air is Dry air.
As long as compressed air is not exposed to temperatures below the temperature the air was cooled to in the dryer (the dew point temperature), no troublesome liquid will form. I am sure for it to be a safe product, it was tested before it was sent to the general public..
Plus air does not build condensation when it is in it's compressed state. It builds when the air gets compressed.
First of all, Avy training is the most important. Train the brain.
Second of all, the snowpulse shows signs of deflation within 5 minutes. Your brain show signs of brain damage after 15. If you were dumped into a terrain trap, in which no airbag will float you, I think you would wish you had some "air" to breath.
Last but not least, The air is Dry air.
As long as compressed air is not exposed to temperatures below the temperature the air was cooled to in the dryer (the dew point temperature), no troublesome liquid will form. I am sure for it to be a safe product, it was tested before it was sent to the general public..
Plus air does not build condensation when it is in it's compressed state. It builds when the air gets compressed.
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I believe an Avy pack is a good idea but please do not attempt to say anything is Mandatory, a life safety tool is something I choose to purchase and use or not. Using good judgment and education is far more important than any piece of equipment, I am often of the belief that people substitute proper judgement for the fact they have equipment that should/can/will/might save them often times at the expense of someone else. Proper avalanche education and intelligent decision making are the key to staying safe and alive, not faith in a piece of equipment that will save you from your own stupidity. The Nanny State has gotten too far out of hand as it is. I would much prefer seeing more people THINK and take responsibility for there actions rather than relying on a bag to save their butt when they do something dumb. And making an avy pack manditory is the antithisis of what sledding or any outdoor sport is about, maybe trees should be equipped with airbags in case someone runs into one.
When i said "mandatory" i was using it in the context that is should be treated like a beacon, shovel or probe. It is just as important as the other three when riding in the mountains.
When you say "dry" air i assume you mean being filled by a compressor that actually drys the air like a pro dive shop or scott pack refilling station. I have heard numerous guys talking about filling their Snowpulse with compressed air from such facilities that do have "dry" air.
Im not knocking the Snowpulse as whether it works or not but my money is on the ABS. Just a few things i would like to see proven like the ABS has been.
Its kind of like Ski-Doo and Yamaha they both make a product that works, just one is proven more reliable than the other !!!
When you say "dry" air i assume you mean being filled by a compressor that actually drys the air like a pro dive shop or scott pack refilling station. I have heard numerous guys talking about filling their Snowpulse with compressed air from such facilities that do have "dry" air.
Im not knocking the Snowpulse as whether it works or not but my money is on the ABS. Just a few things i would like to see proven like the ABS has been.
Its kind of like Ski-Doo and Yamaha they both make a product that works, just one is proven more reliable than the other !!!
God, I hope both bags work better and more consistently than any sled, I would hate to have to tow my bag out. I see the benefits of both bags it is just personal choice, but anyone riding a Yamatank needs the biggest bag, all that extra weight is bound to start more slides and attach one to the sled cause that heavy sucker will sink like a rock
This Avy Bag forum sounds like a battle of sled manufacturers. ABS no doubt has been around the longest but what does that really mean? I there should be a public record of air bag deployments, survivals, and deaths so we can make an informed choice about the products. Also last time I checked Avy training was no guarantee of not being caught in an avalanche.
Just because the Snowpulse hasn't been available in America as long as ABS, does not mean it hasn't gone through the strict guidelines.,
As far as I have been told, the have been in europe for quite some time also. Heck ABS has been around for what... 3 or 4 years in the west?
As for Skidoo.. No real problems so far here.... Must be from having the no brainer info to fix the easy stuff to prevent the big fixes... I guess. but that is another topic/ Keep focused.
As far as I have been told, the have been in europe for quite some time also. Heck ABS has been around for what... 3 or 4 years in the west?
As for Skidoo.. No real problems so far here.... Must be from having the no brainer info to fix the easy stuff to prevent the big fixes... I guess. but that is another topic/ Keep focused.
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